Hi Tony,
When you first posted, I wasn't sure if you were taking magnetic or ceramic.
Now I know it was ceramic, but will tell you my findings about increasing the bass - with magnetic.
I probably have 30 or so different magnetic cartridges and have experimented with them for years. I like a good amount of bass, and am unfulfilled when a jukebox doesn't sound like it should.
Over the years I have realised this. Although some cartridges are less bassy than others, most earlier jukeboxes that have magnetic cartridges, are expecting a high output cartridge of that era, circa 9/10 MV output. When you pic a substitute and it's output is half of that, and it has an aftermarket non genuine stylus, it's output level is much less. Therefore for the same level of volume you have to turn the volume up significantly more. That takes the preamp beyond the loudness contour and hence the bass boost is less. Even poor replacement styli on original cartridges can have this effect. On my Seeburg Sunstar I mentioned this to the late Ron over 25 years ago. He sent me 2 genuine Seeburg yellow styli and it was literally like doubling the volume and bass overnight!
Anyhow, back to your question. I was sick of the 9.5mv output Shure M77 cartridge in my Rowe Tropicana, but all other cartridges sounded thin and not nice. (Wired out of phase correctly).
I thought the preamp is designed to expect 9.5mv and isn't getting it. So I thought, how do I amplify the signal to the preamp ? I can't preamp the preamp, because two lots of RIAA compensation would really screw the sound up.
I then found a stereo mic preamp board on eBay from Greece. It took an input of up to 10mv and an output up to around 250mv.. trimmer pots on each channel. 12vdc. 47k load, so same as a mag cartridge.(Non RIAA). So I worked it in and set the pots to a suitable level, and fitted a new Audio Technica AT3600L cartridge. Super fantastic bass, loads of gain, and overall back to amazing, with a modern higher compliance cartridge playing at 2g. Conclusion is lack of bass most of the time is due to the output of the cartridge not suiting the preamp.
You can also mess with the cartridge loading capacitance in your jukebox preamp if you want to experiment a bit. That can affect the bass and treble too, as can strapping tiny cap values across the volume control pot. All dependent on the cartridge and jukebox in question of course.
On the odd occasion I have found that picking a random cartridge might suit amp A fantastically , and sound really naff when paired with amp B. The Stanton 500s I've found are particularly fussy and can either sound fantastic or too much mid range depending on what they are paired up to.
It's always a bit of try it and see what's best, but the little mic preamp board I have found absolutely perfect for my needs - well, on my Tropicana anyway.
A good ceramic was sonotone 9tahc, but most are dead now due to hard rubber. You can even play those into a magnetic input and they sound fantastic. But sadly no more. Even if you get one to work, the chances are it'll chew your records because the rubber compliance is now so stiff.
During experimenting on hifi and my broadcast turntables, I find that ortofon cartridges seem less bassy than Shure and Stanton. More clarity but I want a jukebox to sound like a jukebox and not like a hifi cd player.
Regards
Nigel, uk
On 2 Jun 2024 at 13:12, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com wrote:
Hi Tony,
Just on my way out and will reply to you this evening about the bass.
If it's the black bodied cartridge with a red stylus then that is the chuo denshi ceramic one. It actually is a really good sounding cartridge. About 25 years ago it was a good ceramic replacement in jukeboxes, I liked it much better than the other options at the time. However nowadays I think it's reputation had been sullied a bit because it's fitted into pretty much every cheapo suitcase record player. But non the less it is good. I have actually used it into a magnetic input as an experiment on tube preamps (Ami) and with no mods or resistors and it sounds great. Very pleasing. My only hesitation these days is that I see you can buy 4 styli on Temu for about 2 dollars, so that tells me something about the diamonds on the new ones.
Nigel, uk
On 2 Jun 2024 at 12:27, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com wrote:
It is ceramic. I believe so anyway. I had bypassed a cobra oscillator and with a .05mfd cap tapped into the amp. It has plenty of volume.
I hate to admit what the cartridge it is, but it's for a Crossley record player and I don't even have a part number for it. I doesn't really sound bad at all and the customer was happy with it. Sadly it's already gone but I'm still interested in your bass boosting technique. I was going to mess with the resistors on the bass control but got detoured and didn't get around to it.
On 5/31/2024 9:12 AM, Nigel Pugh wrote:
Hi Tony, Is this for a magnetic cartridge or ceramic ? Is it lacking in bass because it is a lower output cartridge than original, and you have to turn up the volume to get a decent sound, and the potentiometer has moved out of the loudness contour, so the sound is a bit thin? Even naff repro styli in the genuine cartridges can produce poor bass. Anyhow if this is a case then I do have a solution, i.e improving the bass by boosting the output volume of the cartridge to the amp/preamp. If so, let me know and I'll type in the reply because I did this 2 years ago and found a great solution.
What is the jukebox and cartridge ? I'm assuming all is wired correctly and if it's a Rowe that the cartridge wires are out of phase.
If you want a quick fix and it's a tube amp, pull the avc tube 😁.
Nigel uk
On 31 May 2024 at 13:27, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com wrote:
Is there any way to get more bass out of an amp when using a cartridge that is lacking in bass?
Tony
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