Hi, with the details in the discussion that you suggested here https://jukeboxaddicts.proboards.com/thread/3712/seeburg-100c-cancel-any-pin I was able to deeply understand the sequence of contact closure and understand where the problem was (it was not so clear from the manual): during the C contact closure SC should still be closed for a short time in order to provide path to ground while in my case this was not happening. Thanks to all for the support as always
------ Messaggio originale ------ Da jukebox-list-request@lists.netlojix.com A jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Data 16/10/2023 09:00:04 Oggetto Jukebox-list Digest, Vol 256, Issue 1
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Today's Topics:
- Re: hf100r pupularity meter (Tony Miklos)
- Seeburg STD 4 Problem (Jim McClave)
- A "shocking" 6L6 problem (Tony Miklos)
- Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem (Jay Hennigan)
- Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem (Tony Miklos)
- Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem (Paul Howlett)
- Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem (Jay Hennigan)
- Re: OT: Is there no end to crazy? ;) (Chan Gade)
- Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem (Chan Gade)
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 07:31:16 -0400 From: Tony Miklos tonysjukeboxrepair@gmail.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: hf100r pupularity meter To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: aedbb78c-1903-4993-8fa9-bef5202ff6fd@Gmail.Com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
I thought he might understand it if put into different words. They are called a "make before break" switch, meaning all three contacts make before either of the others break.
Tony
On 10/14/2023 9:54 AM, Jukebox Repairman via Jukebox-list wrote:
Isn’t that what I said? They are the only pair in the upper switch stack that make and break
On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 7:43 AM Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
I don't have a manual in front of me, they are in another building, and unfortunately I don't have the contacts memorized (I should by now). All I can say is that TWO contacts must be closed to energize that coil. As the contact blade of one is pushed, all three contacts touch for a split second. When it reaches the full lift height, it opens one of them. If you follow the manual and adjust to the 64th of an inch, you will get it right. Be sure to start with the first adjustment and follow through to the last one, in the order they are written.
Tony
On 10/14/2023 6:12 AM, Lore Gianno via Jukebox-list wrote:
Hi, yes I have the manual, looking at the diagram it seems the popularity meter is triggered by contact IC, but this is one that stays triggered during play so I have doubts... Anyway, I just cleaned all the contacts from upper and lower set of contacts, it seems better but not solved: sometimes stills stays energized. Can you please tell me exactly which contact is the one to look into? Thanks
------ Messaggio originale ------ Da "Jukebox Repairman" jukin510@gmail.com A "Jukebox mailing list" jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com; "Lore Gianno" lore.gianno@gmail.com Data 13/10/2023 15:45:51 Oggetto Re: [Jukebox-list] hf100r pupularity meter
The upper switch stack has a set of contacts that make & break controlling the pulse for that circuitry. They have to be clean, grease / oil free and adjusted correctly. If you don’t have a manual I’m happy to email a copy of that page but I’m away until Monday
On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 4:36 AM Lore Gianno via Jukebox-list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com wrote:
Dear all, today I switched on my hf100r after 3 months of stand by and I have 2 issues (previously it was perfect): I select the song, when then the disc is taken and starts to play the popularity meter solenoid gets activated but it stays activated, thus I have to immediately shut off in order to avoid the solenoid burning. I had a look at the popularity meter block and it seems fine, but for some reasons the solenoid continues to get current... Where does the signal come from? Where should I look? I also noticed a second symptom: pressing the reset switch on the back to stop playing the record does neither work anymore.
Any ideas? Thanks Lorenzo _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
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Message: 2 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 15:56:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Jim McClave juker17@yahoo.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg STD 4 Problem To: Jukebox Mailing List jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: 1045014787.6626762.1697385380684@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Working on the old "scans Twice doesnt pick up a record " problem. Going by the "symptom 3 troubleshooting guide. The write in voltage at the DCC reads @ 120 Vdc, but I dont see a drop when I make a selection. The guide mentions the write-in trigger. Seems like I dont have that trigger. Anyone else ever experience this ?
Message: 3 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:13:48 -0400 From: Tony Miklos tonysjukeboxrepair@gmail.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] A "shocking" 6L6 problem To: Jukebox mailing list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: 10735202-7242-4e9b-b4e9-10d0ee127f88@Gmail.Com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Working on a Seeburg JL with metal cased RCA 6L6's. (don't recall seeing those before) While trying to find an intermittent very loud snap, crackle, and pop, I get a bit of a shock off the metal case of the one 6L6. Turns out the plate is shorted to the metal enclosure! The base must be a little small because the tube clips weren't grounding out the B+, although it may have been intermittently and that may have been the noise it was making. Put my meter on it and it was about 395vdc to ground, .1 ohms from pin 3 to the metal case.
Tony
Message: 4 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 17:38:48 -0700 From: Jay Hennigan jay@west.net Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem To: Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: e072e4fb-3c73-67c0-25b0-d4b8e57eecec@west.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 10/15/23 17:13, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
Working on a Seeburg JL with metal cased RCA 6L6's. (don't recall seeing those before) While trying to find an intermittent very loud snap, crackle, and pop, I get a bit of a shock off the metal case of the one 6L6. Turns out the plate is shorted to the metal enclosure! The base must be a little small because the tube clips weren't grounding out the B+, although it may have been intermittently and that may have been the noise it was making. Put my meter on it and it was about 395vdc to ground, .1 ohms from pin 3 to the metal case.
Interesting! On metal 6L6s and most metal tubes the case is tied to pin 1 and this is usually grounded to chassis in the amplifier.
Double-check the base of the tube and make sure that the center locating pin hasn't broken off or been forced. You might be measuring pin 1. The construction of the tubes has an interior glass envelope that insulates the tube elements from the case.
It's also possible that pin 1 was used as a hot tie-point, but in the era of the JL, metal 6L6s were still somewhat common and I would think Seeburg wouldn't have done that.
Another possibility is that the phenolic base insulation broke down and developed a carbon track between pin 3 and the case.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
Message: 5 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 20:49:08 -0400 From: Tony Miklos tonysjukeboxrepair@gmail.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: 4a453f96-623e-4369-8787-93d62cb189a0@Gmail.Com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
I'll check that out tomorrow and report back. Whatever did go wrong, it did have B+ voltage from it to ground (but zero from the other 6L6 to ground). I always wondered how they got metal cases to seal good enough, I didn't know they were glass inside! Now you have me thinking, if the keyed pin in the center was off, and the tube was turned a few notches, that would make sense for it to have B+ on the case.
Tony
On 10/15/2023 8:38 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list wrote:
On 10/15/23 17:13, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
Working on a Seeburg JL with metal cased RCA 6L6's. (don't recall seeing those before) While trying to find an intermittent very loud snap, crackle, and pop, I get a bit of a shock off the metal case of the one 6L6. Turns out the plate is shorted to the metal enclosure! The base must be a little small because the tube clips weren't grounding out the B+, although it may have been intermittently and that may have been the noise it was making. Put my meter on it and it was about 395vdc to ground, .1 ohms from pin 3 to the metal case.
Interesting! On metal 6L6s and most metal tubes the case is tied to pin 1 and this is usually grounded to chassis in the amplifier.
Double-check the base of the tube and make sure that the center locating pin hasn't broken off or been forced. You might be measuring pin 1. The construction of the tubes has an interior glass envelope that insulates the tube elements from the case.
It's also possible that pin 1 was used as a hot tie-point, but in the era of the JL, metal 6L6s were still somewhat common and I would think Seeburg wouldn't have done that.
Another possibility is that the phenolic base insulation broke down and developed a carbon track between pin 3 and the case.
Message: 6 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 21:39:57 -0400 From: Paul Howlett pinballpauls@gmail.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem To: Jukebox mailing list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: CAJrUz2iFuW6YZJKMgAVbc3Vn7pwTrfpdhZ-V5DaBSDkAV7Le9g@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
My experience with metal 6L6's is that if you touch one they give you a hell of a burn.
On Sun, Oct 15, 2023, 8:49 PM Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
I'll check that out tomorrow and report back. Whatever did go wrong, it did have B+ voltage from it to ground (but zero from the other 6L6 to ground). I always wondered how they got metal cases to seal good enough, I didn't know they were glass inside! Now you have me thinking, if the keyed pin in the center was off, and the tube was turned a few notches, that would make sense for it to have B+ on the case.
Tony
On 10/15/2023 8:38 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list wrote:
On 10/15/23 17:13, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
Working on a Seeburg JL with metal cased RCA 6L6's. (don't recall seeing those before) While trying to find an intermittent very loud snap, crackle, and pop, I get a bit of a shock off the metal case of the one 6L6. Turns out the plate is shorted to the metal enclosure! The base must be a little small because the tube clips weren't grounding out the B+, although it may have been intermittently and that may have been the noise it was making. Put my meter on it and it was about 395vdc to ground, .1 ohms from pin 3 to the metal case.
Interesting! On metal 6L6s and most metal tubes the case is tied to pin 1 and this is usually grounded to chassis in the amplifier.
Double-check the base of the tube and make sure that the center locating pin hasn't broken off or been forced. You might be measuring pin 1. The construction of the tubes has an interior glass envelope that insulates the tube elements from the case.
It's also possible that pin 1 was used as a hot tie-point, but in the era of the JL, metal 6L6s were still somewhat common and I would think Seeburg wouldn't have done that.
Another possibility is that the phenolic base insulation broke down and developed a carbon track between pin 3 and the case.
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Message: 7 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 19:27:01 -0700 From: Jay Hennigan jay@west.net Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: 5135f45b-fde7-3ce9-94bf-4e6a04787e00@west.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 10/15/23 17:49, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
I'll check that out tomorrow and report back. Whatever did go wrong, it did have B+ voltage from it to ground (but zero from the other 6L6 to ground). I always wondered how they got metal cases to seal good enough, I didn't know they were glass inside! Now you have me thinking, if the keyed pin in the center was off, and the tube was turned a few notches, that would make sense for it to have B+ on the case.
Definitely inspect the socket. Pin 1 should be either left floating or preferably tied to ground. If it's used as a tie point there's no problem with glass 6L6s but it will be connected to the case if a metal tube is used.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
Message: 8 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 04:13:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Chan Gade chan.gade@yahoo.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: OT: Is there no end to crazy? ;) To: 'Jukebox list' jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Cc: "D. Resor" organlists1@sonic.net Message-ID: 1072310713.1071512.1697429635980@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It is a hobby.
Not really crazier than people spending thousands of dollars to get and restore ancient commercial phonographs.
Items were destined for the landfill and are now preserved for history.
RobNYC
On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 03:15:28 PM GMT-5, D. Resor via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:Western electric 12a,13a horn Speaker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRkRnPrEMk8
Don Resor
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Message: 9 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 04:21:22 +0000 (UTC) From: Chan Gade chan.gade@yahoo.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: A "shocking" 6L6 problem To: Jukebox mailing list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Cc: Tony Miklos tonysjukeboxrepair@gmail.com Message-ID: 1372593925.14529295.1697430082407@mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Between semesters I was working for a co. that handled A.V. repairs for the NYC public schools. I perused their OEM files and service bulletins. One from Rheem Califone mentioned a model of their portable phono/PA units using 6L6 metal tubes causing shocks due to "capacitive conduction" internal to the tube. It sounds to me like it was really the sort of thing you experienced. The company offered free 6L6G replacements.
RobNYC
On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 07:14:30 PM GMT-5, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:Working on a Seeburg JL with metal cased RCA 6L6's. (don't recall seeing those before) While trying to find an intermittent very loud snap, crackle, and pop, I get a bit of a shock off the metal case of the one 6L6. Turns out the plate is shorted to the metal enclosure! The base must be a little small because the tube clips weren't grounding out the B+, although it may have been intermittently and that may have been the noise it was making. Put my meter on it and it was about 395vdc to ground, .1 ohms from pin 3 to the metal case.
Tony
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End of Jukebox-list Digest, Vol 256, Issue 1