Paul Strauus, wd6eby, and technical contributor to SBARC voices concerns about area code changes.
By Tom Kisken of the Ventura County Star Posted: 6:47 p.m. 0
Plans to add a new area code to the 805 mean Paul Strauss may one day have to dial 11 digits to call someone who lives next door.
That seems like a step backward to the Camarillo resident who spoke Monday at an Oxnard public hearing on a proposal that could be implemented in 2018.
"It's like we're catering to the technology instead of the technology catering to the individual," said Strauss, who is 62. "… It's my generation that's going to have the hardest time with this."
The hearing focused on the dwindling prefixes available in the three-plus county region that currently uses an 805 area code that dates back to 1957.
Only 40 of 792 prefixes are left and they are expected to run out by the middle of 2018. That means a change in area code is unavoidable, said Joe Cocke, of the North American Numbering Plan Administration, which administers phone numbers in 20 countries, including the United States.
In the plan called an overlay and proposed by the telecommunications industry, people who currently use 805 would keep it. People who move to the region beginning in mid-2018 or who want to add lines could be assigned a new, still unknown area code.
A final decision from the California Public Utilities Commission, which organized Monday's hearing, is likely to come next year and be implemented before the prefixes are dialed out.
But the overlay means people would have to dial 10 digits with every phone call. On land lines, people would also have to dial a 1. The cost of the call would not be affected.
The extra dialing is a concern for some.
"The seven (digits) is bad enough," said Pat Brown, 75, of Oxnard, relating decades of telephone experience that date back to the days when operators connected local calls. "This overlay is going to be horrendous."
Brown suggested a better alternative that involves splitting off part of the 805 and assigning it a new area code.
But splitting an area code into two has become almost obsolete. The last split nationwide was nine years ago with California's most recent split coming 12 years ago.
In addition to technical problems that could temporarily affect text messages, a split means people have to change their phone numbers. That can carry a financial punch for some, said Cocke.
"It hurts a business if they have to change their phone number," he said.
Linda Calderon, 75, of Oxnard, said she supports the overlay in part because she does not want to change her phone number or her business cards.
Ten-digit dialing is routine for cellphone users, noted Jerome Candelaria, of the California Cable and Telecommunications Association.
"It appears that having to change the area code is more disruptive than having to dial the digits," he said.
Matt Dorros, of Simi Valley, questioned whether any change was needed. He said phone companies hoard prefixes that, if used properly, could extend the life of the current 805 indefinitely.
"I have counted an unbelievable number of ghost prefixes in the 805," he said, referring to numbers allegedly not assigned to anyone.
Cocke said a system of checks and balances is aimed at preventing any hoarding. He said phone and cable companies have to prove a legitimate need for new prefixes.
He said many of the so-called ghost prefixes are likely used for machine-to-machine communication, including Wi-Fi connections, faxes, medical devices and alarm systems.
Others at the public hearing asked about language barriers in making sure the county's Mixteco population is aware of the changes coming in 2018. Brenda Birdwell, of the Braille Institute, asked officials to consider the importance of phones to people without sight.
"It is their lifeline to the community," she said.
A public hearing on the area code was also held in Santa Barbara Monday night with a session scheduled for Tuesday morning in San Luis Obispo.
The next step will be the formal application for an area code before the public utilities commission. That could happen later this year with a decision by the commission possible by the middle of next year.
For more information on submitting opinions or concerns about the planned changes, go to http://bit.ly/2bANljm.
On 8/22/16 8:15 PM, Bill Talanian wrote:
Plans to add a new area code to the 805 mean Paul Strauss may one day have to dial 11 digits to call someone who lives next door.
This is common in most urban areas, and 10 vs. 11 digits is an issue in some areas, a throwback to when long distance calls were fairly expensive.
Way back in the dark ages, area codes were easily detected by electromechanical equipment. The second digit was always 1 or 0, and the second digit of a prefix was never 1 or 0. Not using a 1 or 0 as the second digit of a prefix was also an artifact of exchange names such as WOodland for most of Santa Barbara numbers starting with 96. Telcos set up their equipment so that a leading 1 was used for long distance. A local call was either 7 digits or in those rare locations where a local call crossed an area code boundary, it was ten digits. A long distance call was 1 + 7 or 1 + 10.
As numbers became exhausted, exchange names went away and the second digit of a prefix was allowed to be 1 or 0. This meant that a leading 1 meant "area code follows" in most areas, and not "long distance".
Further number exhaustion led to area codes with other than 1 or 0 as the middle digit. In some locations such as Dallas TX, everyone dials ten digits for local and 1+ten digits for LD.
Split vs. overlay is a hot topic. Force everyone to dial ten digits for local calls or force half of the people in an area code to change numbers. Some people will be upset either way.
Ma Bell saw this coming in the early days of cellular and wanted wireless phones and pagers to use a different area code. This would have solved or at least substantially delayed the split vs. overlay problem. Cell companies lobbied against it and it never came to pass.
Only 40 of 792 prefixes are left and they are expected to run out by the middle of 2018. That means a change in area code is unavoidable, said Joe Cocke, of the North American Numbering Plan Administration, which administers phone numbers in 20 countries, including the United States.
NANPA is pretty much the US, Canada, and the Caribbean. Some Caribbean islands often have very high long distance rates despite "looking like" regular US numbers.
In the plan called an overlay and proposed by the telecommunications industry, people who currently use 805 would keep it. People who move to the region beginning in mid-2018 or who want to add lines could be assigned a new, still unknown area code.
It will show up here when assigned. https://www.nationalnanpa.com/enas/plannedNpasNotInServiceReport.do
A final decision from the California Public Utilities Commission, which organized Monday's hearing, is likely to come next year and be implemented before the prefixes are dialed out.
But the overlay means people would have to dial 10 digits with every phone call. On land lines, people would also have to dial a 1. The cost of the call would not be affected.
The extra dialing is a concern for some.
"The seven (digits) is bad enough," said Pat Brown, 75, of Oxnard, relating decades of telephone experience that date back to the days when operators connected local calls. "This overlay is going to be horrendous."
Brown suggested a better alternative that involves splitting off part of the 805 and assigning it a new area code.
That was done here a few years ago with 661 which used to be part of 805. Those of us used to 7-digit dialing (or 2L-5D) generally prefer splits. 805 is itself a split from 213 back in 1957.
Ten-digit dialing is routine for cellphone users, noted Jerome Candelaria, of the California Cable and Telecommunications Association.
And many cell phone users never change their phone number when they move, meaning that a SB resident may have an Atlanta phone number. https://xkcd.com/1129/
"It appears that having to change the area code is more disruptive than having to dial the digits," he said.
If he's in the half forced to change, yes. If not, then the extra digits are more disruptive.
Matt Dorros, of Simi Valley, questioned whether any change was needed. He said phone companies hoard prefixes that, if used properly, could extend the life of the current 805 indefinitely.
"I have counted an unbelievable number of ghost prefixes in the 805," he said, referring to numbers allegedly not assigned to anyone.
That's an artifact of older switching systems coupled with competitive local exchange carriers. Back in the day, a prefix of three digits was associated with a given wire center switch and all calls to that block of 10,000 numbers followed the same routing. When a competitive carrier began service in a new rate center, the minimum allocation was 10,000 numbers. Now it's cut into blocks of 1,000 numbers.
Cocke said a system of checks and balances is aimed at preventing any hoarding. He said phone and cable companies have to prove a legitimate need for new prefixes.
Waste has pretty much been solved by the allocation block of 1,000 numbers.
Here's a local example. http://www.localcallingguide.com/lca_prefix.php?npa=805&nxx=280&x=&a...
The "A" column is the default switch that will reroute calls from older systems unable to handle blocks.
And here's a prefix with unallocated blocks:
http://www.localcallingguide.com/lca_prefix.php?npa=805&nxx=203&x=&a...
He said many of the so-called ghost prefixes are likely used for machine-to-machine communication, including Wi-Fi connections, faxes, medical devices and alarm systems.
The above is completely wrong. Wi-fi doesn't use phone numbers at all. Faxes and alarm systems use conventional numbers as would any medical device that needs to make or receive phone calls. Bell and then Western Union used to have a separate network of TWX area codes a long time ago for Teletype machines of 510, 610, 710, 810, and 910. This went away in 1981.
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
I don't understand this, we now live in Phoenix with 3 area codes and 11 digit 10 digit dialing is required, pain since you have to dial 1 out of the area but not to any of the 3 area codes.
The best new addition of an area code I have seen is in NYC where the reason for need of a new area code (wireless phones and devices) was met by an area code for wireless devices only, leaving the NYC area code for wired phones in place,
Guess with the wired companies doing away with wired networks it won’t matter but was a great idea and not at all sure why other areas did not follow the same pattern.
Andy
-----Original Message----- From: sbarc-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:sbarc-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Bill Talanian Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 8:16 PM To: sbarc list sbarc-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Sbarc-list] 805 Area Code Change
Paul Strauus, wd6eby, and technical contributor to SBARC voices concerns about area code changes.
By Tom Kisken of the Ventura County Star Posted: 6:47 p.m. 0
Plans to add a new area code to the 805 mean Paul Strauss may one day have to dial 11 digits to call someone who lives next door.
That seems like a step backward to the Camarillo resident who spoke Monday at an Oxnard public hearing on a proposal that could be implemented in 2018.
"It's like we're catering to the technology instead of the technology catering to the individual," said Strauss, who is 62. "… It's my generation that's going to have the hardest time with this."
The hearing focused on the dwindling prefixes available in the three-plus county region that currently uses an 805 area code that dates back to 1957.
Only 40 of 792 prefixes are left and they are expected to run out by the middle of 2018. That means a change in area code is unavoidable, said Joe Cocke, of the North American Numbering Plan Administration, which administers phone numbers in 20 countries, including the United States.
In the plan called an overlay and proposed by the telecommunications industry, people who currently use 805 would keep it. People who move to the region beginning in mid-2018 or who want to add lines could be assigned a new, still unknown area code.
A final decision from the California Public Utilities Commission, which organized Monday's hearing, is likely to come next year and be implemented before the prefixes are dialed out.
But the overlay means people would have to dial 10 digits with every phone call. On land lines, people would also have to dial a 1. The cost of the call would not be affected.
The extra dialing is a concern for some.
"The seven (digits) is bad enough," said Pat Brown, 75, of Oxnard, relating decades of telephone experience that date back to the days when operators connected local calls. "This overlay is going to be horrendous."
Brown suggested a better alternative that involves splitting off part of the 805 and assigning it a new area code.
But splitting an area code into two has become almost obsolete. The last split nationwide was nine years ago with California's most recent split coming 12 years ago.
In addition to technical problems that could temporarily affect text messages, a split means people have to change their phone numbers. That can carry a financial punch for some, said Cocke.
"It hurts a business if they have to change their phone number," he said.
Linda Calderon, 75, of Oxnard, said she supports the overlay in part because she does not want to change her phone number or her business cards.
Ten-digit dialing is routine for cellphone users, noted Jerome Candelaria, of the California Cable and Telecommunications Association.
"It appears that having to change the area code is more disruptive than having to dial the digits," he said.
Matt Dorros, of Simi Valley, questioned whether any change was needed. He said phone companies hoard prefixes that, if used properly, could extend the life of the current 805 indefinitely.
"I have counted an unbelievable number of ghost prefixes in the 805," he said, referring to numbers allegedly not assigned to anyone.
Cocke said a system of checks and balances is aimed at preventing any hoarding. He said phone and cable companies have to prove a legitimate need for new prefixes.
He said many of the so-called ghost prefixes are likely used for machine-to-machine communication, including Wi-Fi connections, faxes, medical devices and alarm systems.
Others at the public hearing asked about language barriers in making sure the county's Mixteco population is aware of the changes coming in 2018. Brenda Birdwell, of the Braille Institute, asked officials to consider the importance of phones to people without sight.
"It is their lifeline to the community," she said.
A public hearing on the area code was also held in Santa Barbara Monday night with a session scheduled for Tuesday morning in San Luis Obispo.
The next step will be the formal application for an area code before the public utilities commission. That could happen later this year with a decision by the commission possible by the middle of next year.
For more information on submitting opinions or concerns about the planned changes, go to http://bit.ly/2bANljm. _______________________________________________ SBARC-list mailing list SBARC-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/sbarc-list
On 8/23/16 5:21 AM, Andrew Seybold wrote:
I don't understand this, we now live in Phoenix with 3 area codes and 11 digit 10 digit dialing is required, pain since you have to dial 1 out of the area but not to any of the 3 area codes.
Dialing 10-digits for local is typical with overlays, not with splits. That's what started the discussion.
The best new addition of an area code I have seen is in NYC where the reason for need of a new area code (wireless phones and devices) was met by an area code for wireless devices only, leaving the NYC area code for wired phones in place,
Wireless companies fought this for years because of the perceived stigma of a separate NPA.
With local number portability, there really isn't such a thing any more. You can get a "wireless" number ported to ring on a wired phone or port a "wired" number to cellular. So while the initial intent of the new NPA may have been for wireless expansion, any numbers within it can be transferred to wired phones (or VoIP).
Guess with the wired companies doing away with wired networks it won’t matter but was a great idea and not at all sure why other areas did not follow the same pattern.
Well there's traditional POTS TDM wired analog or PRI, there's VoIP where the last-mile can be wired or wireless, and there's cellular, so the lines are even more blurred.
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
Sounds like NYC somehow won the "area code for cellular phones" battle somehow. Makes me wonder how much longer we could go without either a split or a renumber if all new cellular phones could NOT be assigned out of the 805 pool. Assuming cellular devices are growing considerably more rapidly than anything else, perhaps fending off the split or renumber could be a long time.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Jay Hennigan jay@west.net wrote:
On 8/23/16 5:21 AM, Andrew Seybold wrote: I don't understand this, we now live in Phoenix with 3 area codes and 11 digit 10 digit dialing is required, pain since you have to dial 1 out of the area but not to any of the 3 area codes.
Dialing 10-digits for local is typical with overlays, not with splits. That's what started the discussion.
The best new addition of an area code I have seen is in NYC where the reason for need of a new area code (wireless phones and devices) was met by an area code for wireless devices only, leaving the NYC area code for wired phones in place,
Wireless companies fought this for years because of the perceived stigma of a separate NPA.
With local number portability, there really isn't such a thing any more. You can get a "wireless" number ported to ring on a wired phone or port a "wired" number to cellular. So while the initial intent of the new NPA may have been for wireless expansion, any numbers within it can be transferred to wired phones (or VoIP).
Guess with the wired companies doing away with wired networks it won’t matter but was a great idea and not at all sure why other areas did not follow the same pattern.
Well there's traditional POTS TDM wired analog or PRI, there's VoIP where the last-mile can be wired or wireless, and there's cellular, so the lines are even more blurred.
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ SBARC-list mailing list SBARC-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/sbarc-list
Interesting comments on this subject from many perspectives.
Most of the reasons for and against some type of change is inevitable. As time passes so do many of the objections, once you stand back and look at where we are today.
Having different area codes, or having cellular specific blocks of numbers for cellular carriers worked fine until someone complained about not being able to have number portability. A good reason for change.
Having to dial extra digits (personally we probably call the same numbers again and again - friends and family) so we have them saved in our contacts on our mobile phone, or on the speed dial on our personal telephone (Western Electric Desk Sets excluded - LOL), so I don't understand the problem being so big. In fact telephone books (yes, I saw some the other day - they're still being printed) seems a total waste (stop killing trees) when we find numbers in milliseconds from the browser on our smart phone. If you run a business, I hope your not living in the dark ages of the 1980's.
As an example, I think you would be hard pressed to find any individual under the age of 35 that has ever had a wired telephone. Why would they? They don't live in the world we grew up in. They have a number for their cell phone/smart phone and changing the number no matter where they live (or wherever they are at this moment) would be difficult because now they could lose contact with anyone who didn't get their new number. My son (now 35) lives and works in San Francisco and has one cellular number (from back when there were really separate cellular number blocks assigned to different carriers) since day one for him, and yes it's an 805 area code. No reason to ever change it now.
I'm 68 and I've not had a wired personal phone in 15 years. My businesses have not had wired phones for 13 years (or silly FAX machines). I have number portability and even can have numbers in different area codes that ring on my main (805) number, even from London or wherever my VoIP carrier has assignments. Yes, the prefixes can be confusing, if you really recognize where they were traditionally from. My main business number is actually from Ventura County, but the main number rings in San Luis Obispo or anywhere I'd like it to ring including my mobile phone while in Germany at Ham Radio Freidrichschafen.
I think the whole point is if you put the past behind you, soon you won't even care. I haven't thought about area codes needing to be dialed in ages, I just always do since it's usually from my mobile phone anyway and dialing a 1 and the area code before the number works every time, and all contacts are saved this way. Yes, I still see an area code on an incoming call and think it might be from such and such a place (I don't have any leased PacBell / Western Electric Desk Phones - kids would ask what are they?), but a 805 area code on a call from Wyoming just isn't unusual anymore. Even the retired couple now living in Boise wants their friends in Santa Barbara to be able to find them! It seems if someone hasn't already made the change (to a permanent portable number) they have only been putting off the inevitable. I liken this to someone that has been running the original Microsoft Office programs and hasn't been moving to each subsequent upgrade. When they finally do, the learning curve is huge, because they didn't do the 4 or 5 smaller steps in between. OK Ms is a terrible example, but you get the idea... Embrace change.
Heck even our Call Signs are portable now! Do I occasionally miss knowing where the station is when our country is so big? Of course! On the other hand it is the way it is now. A quick search on QRZ from my computer or smart phone tells me in an instant. Often a lot more, like "I'll be operating from CY9C from August 19th-29th", so I'm not home now. Don't call!
73 Dave WI6R
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Ken Alker ka6ken@alker.net wrote:
Sounds like NYC somehow won the "area code for cellular phones" battle somehow. Makes me wonder how much longer we could go without either a split or a renumber if all new cellular phones could NOT be assigned out of the 805 pool. Assuming cellular devices are growing considerably more rapidly than anything else, perhaps fending off the split or renumber could be a long time.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Jay Hennigan jay@west.net wrote:
On 8/23/16 5:21 AM, Andrew Seybold wrote: I don't understand this, we now live in Phoenix with 3 area codes and
11 digit 10 digit dialing is required, pain since you have to dial 1 out of the area but not to any of the 3 area codes.
Dialing 10-digits for local is typical with overlays, not with splits.
That's what started the discussion.
The best new addition of an area code I have seen is in NYC where the
reason for need of a new area code (wireless phones and devices) was met by an area code for wireless devices only, leaving the NYC area code for wired phones in place,
Wireless companies fought this for years because of the perceived stigma
of a separate NPA.
With local number portability, there really isn't such a thing any more.
You can get a "wireless" number ported to ring on a wired phone or port a "wired" number to cellular. So while the initial intent of the new NPA may have been for wireless expansion, any numbers within it can be transferred to wired phones (or VoIP).
Guess with the wired companies doing away with wired networks it won’t
matter but was a great idea and not at all sure why other areas did not follow the same pattern.
Well there's traditional POTS TDM wired analog or PRI, there's VoIP
where the last-mile can be wired or wireless, and there's cellular, so the lines are even more blurred.
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ SBARC-list mailing list SBARC-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/sbarc-list
SBARC-list mailing list SBARC-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/sbarc-list
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Ken Alker