Re: Rock Ola stepper return spring tensioning
Yes I got it that you got it working, I was just trying to add a little more info, when working with nylon anyway. Some plastics shrink with heat and age, which could be why yours cracked (age). Anyway, good job on the fix! Also, some types of plastic can swell if oiled. Tony On 8/29/2025 8:34 AM, Nigel Pugh wrote:
This had split where it was fitted onto a metal shaft, and the split had caused it to be wider/snugger than it should have, and some burring around the split. I'm doubting whether it's actually nylon, it just looks like some cheapo 1970s plastic. As I've used this since the early 1990s pretty much daily, I can only assume that the split has happened recently as the problems have only occurred this year, and only noticeable when the solenoid has to punch up a high number. Once it is stuck, yours stuffed for making more wallbox selections until you manually reset it. But now it's working fantastic again, and I've bought a parts stepper too, just in case, as this certainly doesn't look like a part you could easily make without a fair amount of hassle. Nigel
On 29 Aug 2025 at 12:47, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox- list@lists.netlojix.com <mailto:jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com>> wrote:
The nylon does not get "waxy" when it swells, not that I have ever seen anyway. I just expands a little bit. Probably not enough to notice, but enough for snug fittings to bind.
On 8/28/2025 9:15 AM, Nigel Pugh wrote:
Thanks Tony. The nylon luckily did not feel particularly waxy and seemed to file well when spinning in the drill. I will check out the lubrication. I've got a couple of other stepper manuals for Rowe and Seeburg ones, somewhere in those it may say. I've had it on all day and am confident it's not failed any selection. Hopefully I can put this one to bed now. Regards Nigel
On 28 Aug 2025 at 13:41, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox- list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <mailto:jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>>> wrote:
Sounds great. Best to check the manual about lubrication. For example, on EM pinball machines with "steppers", the normal routine was to clean and re-grease the contacts/wipers. Although I use oil instead of grease. That's how I was taught, and it seems to work quite well.
If you ever run into some nylon plastic that is swollen (it actually absorbs water!) when sand paper doesn't cut it, and a regular file is of little use, use this file. It works great on slippery nylon. https://www.baersupply.com/v2/wbsc/product/catalog/7367718 <https://www.baersupply.com/v2/wbsc/product/catalog/7367718> <https://www.baersupply.com/v2/wbsc/product/catalog/7367718> <https://www.baersupply.com/v2/wbsc/product/catalog/7367718>> I forgot where I bought mine, probably on Amazon.
Tony
On 8/28/2025 4:21 AM, Nigel Pugh wrote:
Right, always good to sleep on an issue and see if your brain throws up another solution. I dismantled the nylon stepper gear as it was pretty stiff in its bushing. And there was the problem, the nylon shaft had a split and consequently had expanded and was causing the stiffness. Spun it in the drill with some fine sandpaper taking off the burr around the split and it's running like a dream now. Nigel
On 28 Aug 2025 at 05:46, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list <jukebox- list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>> <mailto:jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>>>> wrote:
I'm not aware that lubricant should be used or not, I will look onto that.
However, in this instance it won't be the cause of the problem as I can remove the paxolin disks completey to eliminate them and the problem still occurs.
1. Spring wound too tight - resets nicely but the solenoid can't advance it to the high numbers due to spring pressure.
2. Spring wound too loose - advances nicely but fails to always reset due to lack of spring pressure.
So the question is how do I set the spring pressure correctly. There must be a "number of turns" as to how tight you wind it up.
Nigel
On 27 Aug 2025 at 22:23, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>>>> wrote:
On 8/27/2025 5:09 PM, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
Recently having issues with my Rock Ola 470 stepper. I think the stepper is a 1768 or 1769.
The problem is when a high number is selected, upon reset, the number wiper sometimes remains there and doesn't reset back to it's starting position.
I've had this set up working fine for over 30 years.
Anyhow, I dismantle that part of the stepper and the spring that provides the return tension unwound itself, so I had to guess how many times to re wind it to tension it back up.
It's driving me nuts. Too much tension and the pecking solenoid doesn't have strength to push the gear. Too little tension and it doesn't return every time. There are no other issues, nothing tight or seized.
So my question is, is there a number of winds specified that you have to wind it up to? Instead of me guessing, which could take forever, is there a spec or instruction how to re tension it ?
Regards
Nigel, uk
I don't know about that unit, but some similar units in other equipment use lubricant on the wiper contacts. Should yours have it, and is it lubed?
-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
On 2025-08-29 5:47 a.m., Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
Yes I got it that you got it working, I was just trying to add a little more info, when working with nylon anyway. Some plastics shrink with heat and age, which could be why yours cracked (age). Anyway, good job on the fix! Also, some types of plastic can swell if oiled.
Tony
Yes, Nylon in particular must not be lubricated as it absorbs oils/greases and swells! John :-#)#
On 8/29/2025 8:34 AM, Nigel Pugh wrote:
This had split where it was fitted onto a metal shaft, and the split had caused it to be wider/snugger than it should have, and some burring around the split. I'm doubting whether it's actually nylon, it just looks like some cheapo 1970s plastic. As I've used this since the early 1990s pretty much daily, I can only assume that the split has happened recently as the problems have only occurred this year, and only noticeable when the solenoid has to punch up a high number. Once it is stuck, yours stuffed for making more wallbox selections until you manually reset it. But now it's working fantastic again, and I've bought a parts stepper too, just in case, as this certainly doesn't look like a part you could easily make without a fair amount of hassle. Nigel
On 29 Aug 2025 at 12:47, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox- list@lists.netlojix.com <mailto:jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com>> wrote:
The nylon does not get "waxy" when it swells, not that I have ever seen anyway. I just expands a little bit. Probably not enough to notice, but enough for snug fittings to bind.
On 8/28/2025 9:15 AM, Nigel Pugh wrote:
Thanks Tony. The nylon luckily did not feel particularly waxy and seemed > to file well when spinning in the drill. I will check out the > lubrication. I've got a couple of other stepper manuals for Rowe and > Seeburg ones, somewhere in those it may say. I've had it on all day and am confident it's not failed any selection. > Hopefully I can put this one to bed now. Regards Nigel
On 28 Aug 2025 at 13:41, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox- >> list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <mailto:jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>>> wrote:
Sounds great. Best to check the manual about lubrication. For example, on EM pinball machines with "steppers", the normal routine was to clean and re-grease the contacts/wipers. Although I use oil instead of grease. That's how I was taught, and it seems to work quite well.
If you ever run into some nylon plastic that is swollen (it actually absorbs water!) when sand paper doesn't cut it, and a regular file is of little use, use this file. It works great on slippery nylon. https://www.baersupply.com/v2/wbsc/product/catalog/7367718 <https://www.baersupply.com/v2/wbsc/product/catalog/7367718> <https://www.baersupply.com/v2/wbsc/product/catalog/7367718> <https://www.baersupply.com/v2/wbsc/product/catalog/7367718>> I forgot where I bought mine, probably on Amazon.
Tony
On 8/28/2025 4:21 AM, Nigel Pugh wrote:
Right, always good to sleep on an issue and see if your brain throws up >> > another solution. I dismantled the nylon stepper gear as it was pretty stiff in its >> > bushing. And there was the problem, the nylon shaft had a split and >> > consequently had expanded and was causing the stiffness. Spun it in the >> > drill with some fine sandpaper taking off the burr around the split and >> > it's running like a dream now. Nigel
On 28 Aug 2025 at 05:46, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list <jukebox- >> >> list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>> <mailto:jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> I'm not aware that lubricant should be used or not, I will look onto that. >> >> However, in this instance it won't be the cause of the problem as I can remove the paxolin disks completey to eliminate them and the problem still occurs. >> >> 1. Spring wound too tight - resets nicely but the solenoid can't advance it to the high numbers due to spring pressure. >> >> 2. Spring wound too loose - advances nicely but fails to always reset due to lack of spring pressure. >> >> >> >> So the question is how do I set the spring pressure correctly. There must be a "number of turns" as to how tight you wind it up. >> >> Nigel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > On 27 Aug 2025 at 22:23, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com> <lists.netlojix.com <lists.netlojix.com>>>> wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On 8/27/2025 5:09 PM, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
>> >> > > >> >> > >> Recently having issues with my Rock Ola 470 stepper. I think the stepper is a 1768 or 1769. >> >> > >> The problem is when a high number is selected, upon reset, the number wiper sometimes remains there and doesn't reset back to it's starting position. >> >> > >> I've had this set up working fine for over 30 years. >> >> > >> Anyhow, I dismantle that part of the stepper and the spring that provides the return tension unwound itself, so I had to guess how many times to re wind it to tension it back up. >> >> > >> It's driving me nuts. Too much tension and the pecking solenoid doesn't have strength to push the gear. Too little tension and it doesn't return every time. There are no other issues, nothing tight or seized. >> >> > >> So my question is, is there a number of winds specified that you have to wind it up to? Instead of me guessing, which could take forever, is there a spec or instruction how to re tension it ? >> >> > >> Regards >> >> > >> Nigel, uk
I don't know about that unit, but some similar units in other equipment >> >> > use lubricant on the wiper contacts. Should yours have it, and is it lubed?
-- >> >> > Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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-- >> Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
Was there ever a device available / adapter to allow a 70s Microlog technology Seeburg to use an electro mechanical wallbox instead of the DEC wallboxes ?
Not the HGM, Rainbow, MHG type programmable wallboxes, I mean the old school analog style
Nigel, uk
On 9/2/25 12:54, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
Was there ever a device available / adapter to allow a 70s Microlog technology Seeburg to use an electro mechanical wallbox instead of the DEC wallboxes ?
Not the HGM, Rainbow, MHG type programmable wallboxes, I mean the old school analog style
The stepper style wallboxes? Not that I'm aware of, but it would seem to be a feasible project for an Arduino or similar. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
What about https://www.cdadapter.com/ ? The person Ron Rich referred to as the “grump”? ;) Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone
On Sep 2, 2025, at 1:02 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
On 9/2/25 12:54, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
Was there ever a device available / adapter to allow a 70s Microlog technology Seeburg to use an electro mechanical wallbox instead of the DEC wallboxes ?
Not the HGM, Rainbow, MHG type programmable wallboxes, I mean the old school analog style
The stepper style wallboxes? Not that I'm aware of, but it would seem to be a feasible project for an Arduino or similar.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
On 2025-09-02 1:37 p.m., Don R via Jukebox-list wrote:
What about https://www.cdadapter.com/ ?
The person Ron Rich referred to as the “grump”? ;)
Ed is not grumpy! We've chatted on and off for many years over various projects he has done, and one or two things he did helping me. He does like to chat though...allow for some time if you connect with him! John :-#)#
Don Resor
Sent from someone's iPhone
On Sep 2, 2025, at 1:02 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
On 9/2/25 12:54, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
Was there ever a device available / adapter to allow a 70s Microlog technology Seeburg to use an electro mechanical wallbox instead of the DEC wallboxes ?
Not the HGM, Rainbow, MHG type programmable wallboxes, I mean the old school analog style
The stepper style wallboxes? Not that I'm aware of, but it would seem to be a feasible project for an Arduino or similar.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
I've had a look there and the items seem mainly to be replacing the jukebox with an MP3 player controlled by the wallbox. I would like to run an analogue/electro mechanical wallbox off my Seeburg Sunstar. i was wondering if there was some kind of adapter made in the 70s that would allow these jukeboxes to use existing installed wallbox setups without having to swap them all out for decs. Or, a modern technology one made for the hobby market. Nigel, uk
On 2 Sept 2025 at 21:37, Don R via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
What about https://www.cdadapter.com/ ?
The person Ron Rich referred to as the “grump”? ;)
Don Resor
Sent from someone's iPhone
On Sep 2, 2025, at 1:02 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
On 9/2/25 12:54, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
Was there ever a device available / adapter to allow a 70s Microlog technology Seeburg to use an electro mechanical wallbox instead of the DEC wallboxes ?
Not the HGM, Rainbow, MHG type programmable wallboxes, I mean the old school analog style
The stepper style wallboxes? Not that I'm aware of, but it would seem to be a feasible project for an Arduino or similar.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
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Nigel, Seeburg made a universal adapter, I believe this is what it was for but am not 100% certain. I will look into it because I just happen to have one in the garage. I have no use for it but it would be good to reacquaint myself with its function. Mauro Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 3, 2025, at 2:46 AM, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
I've had a look there and the items seem mainly to be replacing the jukebox with an MP3 player controlled by the wallbox.
I would like to run an analogue/electro mechanical wallbox off my Seeburg Sunstar.
i was wondering if there was some kind of adapter made in the 70s that would allow these jukeboxes to use existing installed wallbox setups without having to swap them all out for decs. Or, a modern technology one made for the hobby market.
Nigel, uk
On 2 Sept 2025 at 21:37, Don R via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
What about https://www.cdadapter.com/ ?
The person Ron Rich referred to as the “grump”? ;)
Don Resor
Sent from someone's iPhone
On Sep 2, 2025, at 1:02 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
On 9/2/25 12:54, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
Was there ever a device available / adapter to allow a 70s Microlog technology Seeburg to use an electro mechanical wallbox instead of the DEC wallboxes ?
Not the HGM, Rainbow, MHG type programmable wallboxes, I mean the old school analog style
The stepper style wallboxes? Not that I'm aware of, but it would seem to be a feasible project for an Arduino or similar.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
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Thanks Mauro, that would be good to know. Best regards Nigel
On 3 Sept 2025 at 12:26, M De Simone via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Nigel, Seeburg made a universal adapter, I believe this is what it was for but am not 100% certain. I will look into it because I just happen to have one in the garage. I have no use for it but it would be good to reacquaint myself with its function. Mauro
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 3, 2025, at 2:46 AM, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
I've had a look there and the items seem mainly to be replacing the jukebox with an MP3 player controlled by the wallbox.
I would like to run an analogue/electro mechanical wallbox off my Seeburg Sunstar.
i was wondering if there was some kind of adapter made in the 70s that would allow these jukeboxes to use existing installed wallbox setups without having to swap them all out for decs. Or, a modern technology one made for the hobby market.
Nigel, uk
On 2 Sept 2025 at 21:37, Don R via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
What about https://www.cdadapter.com/ ?
The person Ron Rich referred to as the “grump”? ;)
Don Resor
Sent from someone's iPhone
On Sep 2, 2025, at 1:02 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
On 9/2/25 12:54, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
Was there ever a device available / adapter to allow a 70s Microlog technology Seeburg to use an electro mechanical wallbox instead of the DEC wallboxes ?
Not the HGM, Rainbow, MHG type programmable wallboxes, I mean the old school analog style
The stepper style wallboxes? Not that I'm aware of, but it would seem to be a feasible project for an Arduino or similar.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
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participants (6)
-
Don R -
jay＠west.net -
John Robertson -
M De Simone -
Nigel Pugh -
Tony Miklos