Plays Slow When Cold - Seeburg & Bodine Motors - Ron Rich
I was going through my files and found the following post from Ron on Jukebox-List many years ago - and I figured it was time to post it again for the younguns... ----------------------original posting---------------------- From: Ron Rich <ronnnrich@yahoo.com> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Slow when cold Bodine motors The story from my good, but not too long memory goes like this-- Sometime in the mid 1960's Seeburg began getting complaints about the mech not wanting to play at 45rpm when cold. At first (I understand), they "ignored" the situation. At some point, it became apparent that this was beginning to affect sales. They then came out with an "un-official fix"--which was an electrical addition plus the suggestion that the motor be removed, cleaned and re-oiled with "Seeburg oil". The electrical portion was "un-official" as they knew it would not be able to be UL approved. (It was similar to Wes' earlier suggestion). As more and more complaints came in, they decided sometime around 1966, to do a "study of the problem". They requested that their distribs. send in any motor that was having problems. They also requested a few sample Bodine motors from older models--all the way back to the model B. They further "borrowed" a few mechs from distribs that were having this problem. Short ending--It was found that ALL Bodine motors, including early ones ran slower when "ice cold", this is not noticeable in the 45rpm units, as the slow-down is less then one rpm@ 45rpm, however in the units geared at 33, the torque produced by the motor, when "auto-speeded" to 45rpm is much less. Bodine, which had assured Seeburg that the motors would be OK if geared and autospeeded to 45, supposedly also did a "study". Their answer was a redesign of the motor, which was then marked with a stamp "Al" after the KCI 42 model number ( I was told, once again, "un-officially", that Bodine admitted that about one percent of their motors had a "production defect"). Seeburg then re-suggested that on any mech having this problem, ALL grease, especially "Lubriplate" and oil be removed. All "thrust bearing" adjustments were to be checked, and re adjusted to specs, if needed. A light coat of graphite grease (NOT "Lubriplate") was to be applied to the gears, and a re-oiling with only "Seeburg Oil". Plus, the motor was to be dis-assembled, cleaned and re-oiled with Seeburg Oil. They also added a 5k10w ww resistor to the circuit, when in the "play" mode ( I think this is shown on the LS-1 schematic on up--I know it's shown on the LS-3 schematic-up). The above, although I do live in "Kahl-lee-forn-nee-ya", ain't no "torro feces"--just how I remember it--Ron Rich Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spain protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list ------------------30--------------------- John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
Thanks for posting this John, I have no recollection of seeing it first time around. I don't wish to encourage dubious practices but for anyone having this type of problem with autospeed machines, fitting the 1 + 1.4uF motor capacitor as used on older Seeburgs will enable the motor to develop a bit more torque when in play mode. I had asked Ron if he knew why they altered the capacitor values for the motor but he didn't know. My theory was that maybe the turntable section was being machined to tighter tolerances. Norman. ------ Original Message ------ From: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Cc: jrr@flippers.com Sent: Tuesday, September 2nd 2025, 23:24 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Plays Slow When Cold - Seeburg & Bodine Motors - Ron Rich I was going through my files and found the following post from Ron on Jukebox-List many years ago - and I figured it was time to post it again for the younguns... ----------------------original posting---------------------- From: Ron Rich To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Slow when cold Bodine motors The story from my good, but not too long memory goes like this-- Sometime in the mid 1960's Seeburg began getting complaints about the mech not wanting to play at 45rpm when cold. At first (I understand), they "ignored" the situation. At some point, it became apparent that this was beginning to affect sales. They then came out with an "un-official fix"--which was an electrical addition plus the suggestion that the motor be removed, cleaned and re-oiled with "Seeburg oil". The electrical portion was "un-official" as they knew it would not be able to be UL approved. (It was similar to Wes' earlier suggestion). As more and more complaints came in, they decided sometime around 1966, to do a "study of the problem". They requested that their distribs. send in any motor that was having problems. They also requested a few sample Bodine motors from older models--all the way back to the model B. They further "borrowed" a few mechs from distribs that were having this problem. Short ending--It was found that ALL Bodine motors, including early ones ran slower when "ice cold", this is not noticeable in the 45rpm units, as the slow-down is less then one rpm@ 45rpm, however in the units geared at 33, the torque produced by the motor, when "auto-speeded" to 45rpm is much less. Bodine, which had assured Seeburg that the motors would be OK if geared and autospeeded to 45, supposedly also did a "study". Their answer was a redesign of the motor, which was then marked with a stamp "Al" after the KCI 42 model number ( I was told, once again, "un-officially", that Bodine admitted that about one percent of their motors had a "production defect"). Seeburg then re-suggested that on any mech having this problem, ALL grease, especially "Lubriplate" and oil be removed. All "thrust bearing" adjustments were to be checked, and re adjusted to specs, if needed. A light coat of graphite grease (NOT "Lubriplate") was to be applied to the gears, and a re-oiling with only "Seeburg Oil". Plus, the motor was to be dis-assembled, cleaned and re-oiled with Seeburg Oil. They also added a 5k10w ww resistor to the circuit, when in the "play" mode ( I think this is shown on the LS-1 schematic on up--I know it's shown on the LS-3 schematic-up). The above, although I do live in "Kahl-lee-forn-nee-ya", ain't no "torro feces"--just how I remember it--Ron Rich Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spain protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list ------------------30--------------------- John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
I miss this guy... My favorite is "gen-u-whine". On Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 06:24:08 PM EDT, John Robertson via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote: I was going through my files and found the following post from Ron on Jukebox-List many years ago - and I figured it was time to post it again for the younguns... ----------------------original posting---------------------- From: Ron Rich <ronnnrich@yahoo.com> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Slow when cold Bodine motors The story from my good, but not too long memory goes like this-- Sometime in the mid 1960's Seeburg began getting complaints about the mech not wanting to play at 45rpm when cold. At first (I understand), they "ignored" the situation. At some point, it became apparent that this was beginning to affect sales. They then came out with an "un-official fix"--which was an electrical addition plus the suggestion that the motor be removed, cleaned and re-oiled with "Seeburg oil". The electrical portion was "un-official" as they knew it would not be able to be UL approved. (It was similar to Wes' earlier suggestion). As more and more complaints came in, they decided sometime around 1966, to do a "study of the problem". They requested that their distribs. send in any motor that was having problems. They also requested a few sample Bodine motors from older models--all the way back to the model B. They further "borrowed" a few mechs from distribs that were having this problem. Short ending--It was found that ALL Bodine motors, including early ones ran slower when "ice cold", this is not noticeable in the 45rpm units, as the slow-down is less then one rpm@ 45rpm, however in the units geared at 33, the torque produced by the motor, when "auto-speeded" to 45rpm is much less. Bodine, which had assured Seeburg that the motors would be OK if geared and autospeeded to 45, supposedly also did a "study". Their answer was a redesign of the motor, which was then marked with a stamp "Al" after the KCI 42 model number ( I was told, once again, "un-officially", that Bodine admitted that about one percent of their motors had a "production defect"). Seeburg then re-suggested that on any mech having this problem, ALL grease, especially "Lubriplate" and oil be removed. All "thrust bearing" adjustments were to be checked, and re adjusted to specs, if needed. A light coat of graphite grease (NOT "Lubriplate") was to be applied to the gears, and a re-oiling with only "Seeburg Oil". Plus, the motor was to be dis-assembled, cleaned and re-oiled with Seeburg Oil. They also added a 5k10w ww resistor to the circuit, when in the "play" mode ( I think this is shown on the LS-1 schematic on up--I know it's shown on the LS-3 schematic-up). The above, although I do live in "Kahl-lee-forn-nee-ya", ain't no "torro feces"--just how I remember it--Ron Rich Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spain protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list ------------------30--------------------- John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
Me too. Kind regards - Hildegard ________________________________ Von: JIM & LAURIE DIRKSEN via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. September 2025 17:47 An: Flamingo Records via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com>; jrr@flippers.com <jrr@flippers.com> Cc: JIM & LAURIE DIRKSEN <dirksenj@bellsouth.net> Betreff: [Jukebox-list] Re: Plays Slow When Cold - Seeburg & Bodine Motors - Ron Rich I miss this guy... My favorite is "gen-u-whine". On Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 06:24:08 PM EDT, John Robertson via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote: I was going through my files and found the following post from Ron on Jukebox-List many years ago - and I figured it was time to post it again for the younguns... ----------------------original posting---------------------- From: Ron Rich <ronnnrich@yahoo.com> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Slow when cold Bodine motors The story from my good, but not too long memory goes like this-- Sometime in the mid 1960's Seeburg began getting complaints about the mech not wanting to play at 45rpm when cold. At first (I understand), they "ignored" the situation. At some point, it became apparent that this was beginning to affect sales. They then came out with an "un-official fix"--which was an electrical addition plus the suggestion that the motor be removed, cleaned and re-oiled with "Seeburg oil". The electrical portion was "un-official" as they knew it would not be able to be UL approved. (It was similar to Wes' earlier suggestion). As more and more complaints came in, they decided sometime around 1966, to do a "study of the problem". They requested that their distribs. send in any motor that was having problems. They also requested a few sample Bodine motors from older models--all the way back to the model B. They further "borrowed" a few mechs from distribs that were having this problem. Short ending--It was found that ALL Bodine motors, including early ones ran slower when "ice cold", this is not noticeable in the 45rpm units, as the slow-down is less then one rpm@ 45rpm, however in the units geared at 33, the torque produced by the motor, when "auto-speeded" to 45rpm is much less. Bodine, which had assured Seeburg that the motors would be OK if geared and autospeeded to 45, supposedly also did a "study". Their answer was a redesign of the motor, which was then marked with a stamp "Al" after the KCI 42 model number ( I was told, once again, "un-officially", that Bodine admitted that about one percent of their motors had a "production defect"). Seeburg then re-suggested that on any mech having this problem, ALL grease, especially "Lubriplate" and oil be removed. All "thrust bearing" adjustments were to be checked, and re adjusted to specs, if needed. A light coat of graphite grease (NOT "Lubriplate") was to be applied to the gears, and a re-oiling with only "Seeburg Oil". Plus, the motor was to be dis-assembled, cleaned and re-oiled with Seeburg Oil. They also added a 5k10w ww resistor to the circuit, when in the "play" mode ( I think this is shown on the LS-1 schematic on up--I know it's shown on the LS-3 schematic-up). The above, although I do live in "Kahl-lee-forn-nee-ya", ain't no "torro feces"--just how I remember it--Ron Rich Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spain protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list ------------------30--------------------- John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
Close call with RTFM I think 😀
On 3 Sept 2025 at 16:47, JIM & LAURIE DIRKSEN via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
I miss this guy... My favorite is "gen-u-whine". On Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 06:24:08 PM EDT, John Robertson via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
I was going through my files and found the following post from Ron on Jukebox-List many years ago - and I figured it was time to post it again for the younguns...
----------------------original posting----------------------
From: Ron Rich <ronnnrich@yahoo.com> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Slow when cold Bodine motors
The story from my good, but not too long memory goes like this-- Sometime in the mid 1960's Seeburg began getting complaints about the mech not wanting to play at 45rpm when cold. At first (I understand), they "ignored" the situation. At some point, it became apparent that this was beginning to affect sales. They then came out with an "un-official fix"--which was an electrical addition plus the suggestion that the motor be removed, cleaned and re-oiled with "Seeburg oil". The electrical portion was "un-official" as they knew it would not be able to be UL approved. (It was similar to Wes' earlier suggestion). As more and more complaints came in, they decided sometime around 1966, to do a "study of the problem". They requested that their distribs. send in any motor that was having problems. They also requested a few sample Bodine motors from older models--all the way back to the model B. They further "borrowed" a few mechs from distribs that were having this problem. Short ending--It was found that ALL Bodine motors, including early ones ran slower when "ice cold", this is not noticeable in the 45rpm units, as the slow-down is less then one rpm@ 45rpm, however in the units geared at 33, the torque produced by the motor, when "auto-speeded" to 45rpm is much less. Bodine, which had assured Seeburg that the motors would be OK if geared and autospeeded to 45, supposedly also did a "study". Their answer was a redesign of the motor, which was then marked with a stamp "Al" after the KCI 42 model number ( I was told, once again, "un-officially", that Bodine admitted that about one percent of their motors had a "production defect").
Seeburg then re-suggested that on any mech having this problem, ALL grease, especially "Lubriplate" and oil be removed. All "thrust bearing" adjustments were to be checked, and re adjusted to specs, if needed. A light coat of graphite grease (NOT "Lubriplate") was to be applied to the gears, and a re-oiling with only "Seeburg Oil". Plus, the motor was to be dis-assembled, cleaned and re-oiled with Seeburg Oil. They also added a 5k10w ww resistor to the circuit, when in the "play" mode ( I think this is shown on the LS-1 schematic on up--I know it's shown on the LS-3 schematic-up). The above, although I do live in "Kahl-lee-forn-nee-ya", ain't no "torro feces"--just how I remember it--Ron Rich
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spain protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list
------------------30---------------------
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
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participants (5)
-
JIM & LAURIE DIRKSEN -
John Robertson -
Nigel Pugh -
NORMAN MACRAE -
stamann＠jukebox-world.de