Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed
Ed, I be never seen capacitors in that circuit but perhaps they help smooth out the voltage?? Regardless, if I replaced lamps and starters I’d probably replace the ballasts at this point and remove the caps. There’s nothing else in that circuit, Mauro Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 9, 2023, at 7:50 PM, Ed Inman via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
Some starters have condensers in them On Fri, Jun 9, 2023, 9:24 PM M De Simone via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Ed, I be never seen capacitors in that circuit but perhaps they help smooth out the voltage?? Regardless, if I replaced lamps and starters I’d probably replace the ballasts at this point and remove the caps. There’s nothing else in that circuit, Mauro
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 9, 2023, at 7:50 PM, Ed Inman via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
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Condensers are just the older name for capacitor. No difference between the two. On 6/9/2023 10:40 PM, Paul Howlett via Jukebox-list wrote:
Some starters have condensers in them
On Fri, Jun 9, 2023, 9:24 PM M De Simone via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Ed, I be never seen capacitors in that circuit but perhaps they help smooth out the voltage?? Regardless, if I replaced lamps and starters I’d probably replace the ballasts at this point and remove the caps. There’s nothing else in that circuit, Mauro
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 9, 2023, at 7:50 PM, Ed Inman via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote: Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
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The one blink and done is typical of a bad ballast. With a meter you will see that the one end that blinked is now open, the new bulb is shot (there is a heating filament at each end and that end is now open) . The starter consists of a neon light and some have a capacitor. The capacitor is for noise reduction in the amp (each time the bulb blinks) and they work rather well in that way, but either starter with or without the cap will work. So you may have one or two bad brand new bulbs and a bad ballast. I think but am not sure, that if you use a certain type of new ballast that doesn't need a stater, the blown bulbs will work. Takes a little rewiring. Tony On 6/9/2023 7:50 PM, Ed Inman via Jukebox-list wrote:
Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
The interference suppressor would be common to both ballasts so that would be the place to start. Usually the suppressor doesn't feature on US machines but does on export machines (it is an EU regulation). They do fail fairly frequently usually shorting and taking out the fuse. I used to replace them with suppression units for domestic appliances (cheap to buy) but latterly I stopped doing that and just remove them completely when they fail. Norman. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Ed Inman via Jukebox-list" <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> To: "Jukebox mailing list" <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Cc: "Ed Inman" <edinman@earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, 10 Jun, 23 At 00:50 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Ballasts and fluorescent lamps Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/ <http://jukebox.markmail.org/>
When the lamp and ballast are good, you can short across the two starter terminals and release and the bulb will light. In fact I have a very old fluorescent light here on my desk that doesn't use a starter. Instead it has a normally open momentary red switch/button to turn it on (or make it "start") and a normally closed momentary black button to turn it off. On 6/10/2023 6:47 AM, NORMAN MACRAE via Jukebox-list wrote:
The interference suppressor would be common to both ballasts so that would be the place to start. Usually the suppressor doesn't feature on US machines but does on export machines (it is an EU regulation). They do fail fairly frequently usually shorting and taking out the fuse. I used to replace them with suppression units for domestic appliances (cheap to buy) but latterly I stopped doing that and just remove them completely when they fail.
Norman.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Ed Inman via Jukebox-list" <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> To: "Jukebox mailing list" <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Cc: "Ed Inman" <edinman@earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, 10 Jun, 23 At 00:50 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Ballasts and fluorescent lamps Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/ <http://jukebox.markmail.org/> _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
Because of the bulb size you are referencing I’m guessing this is a Seeburg ? If it has original ballasts they are oil filled and hazardous. Ballast are cheap. I replace all in my restorations On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 6:59 AM Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
When the lamp and ballast are good, you can short across the two starter terminals and release and the bulb will light. In fact I have a very old fluorescent light here on my desk that doesn't use a starter. Instead it has a normally open momentary red switch/button to turn it on (or make it "start") and a normally closed momentary black button to turn it off.
On 6/10/2023 6:47 AM, NORMAN MACRAE via Jukebox-list wrote:
The interference suppressor would be common to both ballasts so that would be the place to start. Usually the suppressor doesn't feature on US machines but does on export machines (it is an EU regulation). They do fail fairly frequently usually shorting and taking out the fuse. I used to replace them with suppression units for domestic appliances (cheap to buy) but latterly I stopped doing that and just remove them completely when they fail.
Norman.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Ed Inman via Jukebox-list" <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> To: "Jukebox mailing list" <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Cc: "Ed Inman" <edinman@earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, 10 Jun, 23 At 00:50 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Ballasts and fluorescent lamps Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/ <http://jukebox.markmail.org/> _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
The florescent tubes have filaments on each end ( like incandescent lamps). If one of them is bad the tube won't light. The noise suppressors rarely ever go (none polarized capacitor). Ballast do. You can read them like a transformer. No reading "open", Very high almost off the chart "shorted". If shorted it blew out that tube. When replacing that bad ballast do not use a 22-25 watt, only use a 25 watt for the 33 inch tube. Regards,Tony On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 07:50:58 PM EDT, Ed Inman via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote: Have a customer whose fluorescent lamps went out. Jukebox takes rather rare F25T12/CW/33 lamps but I found a pair and replaced both FS-25 starters. One of the new lamps blinked for a second then went out. The other won't come on at all. Typical of failed ballasts? I noticed the ballasts are also connected to "noise suppression capacitors." Is this typical? Maybe bad capacitors? Are they really necessary? Should I try bypassing the capacitors or try replacing the ballasts? Both? Seems odd that both would fail at the same time. I'm sure this isn't rocket science but I was expecting the new lamps to start right up so it was kind of disappointing & the customer is frustrated. Any suggestions appreciated. thanks, Ed _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
participants (7)
-
Ed Inman -
Jukebox Repairman -
M De Simone -
NORMAN MACRAE -
Paul Howlett -
Tony Margiotta Sr -
Tony Miklos