Amp noise WAS driving me crazy
Just wanted to share this. I have an AMI JAL in the shop. One of the many problems was an intermittent static like noise in the speakers. I thought it had the sound of a 60 cycle arc, if you can imagine that. It didn't do it on the bench, but it was intermittent. It was very loud and would go up and down with the volume control. I pulled the inputs and it still did it. Started pulling tubes in the pre amp, then in the power amp. It didn't completely go away until I pulled all 4 output tubes. Somewhere along the line I had even unplugged the pre amp from the power amp and only had the output tubes in it. (they tested good) It still had the noise but very, very quiet. I had to have my ear close to the speaker to hear it. To make a long story a little shorter, it was a bad turntable motor cam switch arcing and causing interference. When I pulled it out, it had about 80 ohms resistance. (Even with the bad switch in, it still played records at normal speed.) It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped. -- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
Hi Tony, That's interesting. I messed about a lot with that age of Rowe Ami. In fact that's the only Amp/Preamp that I know anything about. I've never experienced your problem but had some similar interference down to a lighting choke some years ago. I tend to pull the mute plug from the amp and do a bit of diagnostics without the mech in play mode. Just makes life a bit easier to diagnose it. I guess if you did that with the mech at rest, your static would have disappeared. I'll know next time if I get static to pull the turntable power plug to the side of the mech. Owning a JBM for almost 40 years I think I've experienced every flipping problem that machine can throw at me - and they do ! Usually the cue for a problem to arise is half an hour before guests arrive. Earlier this year I had really bad static and it turned out to be the base of one of the inverter valves. It drove me nuts, but did force me to replace all remaining old resistors in that area of the amp, so at least I came out of it with more improvement in sound. Nigel, uk
On 5 Sept 2025 at 14:08, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Just wanted to share this.
I have an AMI JAL in the shop. One of the many problems was an intermittent static like noise in the speakers. I thought it had the sound of a 60 cycle arc, if you can imagine that. It didn't do it on the bench, but it was intermittent. It was very loud and would go up and down with the volume control. I pulled the inputs and it still did it. Started pulling tubes in the pre amp, then in the power amp. It didn't completely go away until I pulled all 4 output tubes. Somewhere along the line I had even unplugged the pre amp from the power amp and only had the output tubes in it. (they tested good) It still had the noise but very, very quiet. I had to have my ear close to the speaker to hear it.
To make a long story a little shorter, it was a bad turntable motor cam switch arcing and causing interference. When I pulled it out, it had about 80 ohms resistance. (Even with the bad switch in, it still played records at normal speed.)
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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Hi Tony, I had a similar intermittent problem with static in my Tropicana. Turned out to be a failing cap. Thanks for sharing. Those machines are wonderful when everything's dialed in but they do occasionally present some interesting repair opportunities. Dean On Friday, September 5, 2025 at 07:47:30 AM PDT, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote: Hi Tony, That's interesting. I messed about a lot with that age of Rowe Ami. In fact that's the only Amp/Preamp that I know anything about. I've never experienced your problem but had some similar interference down to a lighting choke some years ago. I tend to pull the mute plug from the amp and do a bit of diagnostics without the mech in play mode. Just makes life a bit easier to diagnose it. I guess if you did that with the mech at rest, your static would have disappeared. I'll know next time if I get static to pull the turntable power plug to the side of the mech. Owning a JBM for almost 40 years I think I've experienced every flipping problem that machine can throw at me - and they do ! Usually the cue for a problem to arise is half an hour before guests arrive. Earlier this year I had really bad static and it turned out to be the base of one of the inverter valves. It drove me nuts, but did force me to replace all remaining old resistors in that area of the amp, so at least I came out of it with more improvement in sound. Nigel, uk
On 5 Sept 2025 at 14:08, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote: Just wanted to share this.
I have an AMI JAL in the shop. One of the many problems was an intermittent static like noise in the speakers. I thought it had the sound of a 60 cycle arc, if you can imagine that. It didn't do it on the bench, but it was intermittent. It was very loud and would go up and down with the volume control. I pulled the inputs and it still did it. Started pulling tubes in the pre amp, then in the power amp. It didn't completely go away until I pulled all 4 output tubes. Somewhere along the line I had even unplugged the pre amp from the power amp and only had the output tubes in it. (they tested good) It still had the noise but very, very quiet. I had to have my ear close to the speaker to hear it.
To make a long story a little shorter, it was a bad turntable motor cam switch arcing and causing interference. When I pulled it out, it had about 80 ohms resistance. (Even with the bad switch in, it still played records at normal speed.)
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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That's a very succinct way of putting it Dean. I see many Tropicanas for sale. I probably see 10 Tropicanas for every Diplomat or Bandstand that I see. They must have made loads. And where I live in England I remember some of them were in use up until the early to mid 80s. so my conclusion is the JAL and JEL looked too old too soon, and the Tropicanas had a hard and long life, so are like a car with a million miles on the clock. Some design faults - individually named buttons that were easy to break or burn. (I've seen operators aftermarket sets of aluminium ones, just that they don't light up). Awful search unit connector. Annoying side speaker design. Easy to break your host glass. . Plus all the age related issues. The last visible mechanism Ami to be made, if you count the little cut out window for the price of play as visible, which everyone does. But like Dean mentions, wonderful when all set up, and the most amazing sound as well. Nigel, uk
On 5 Sept 2025 at 16:48, Dean Carriveau via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Hi Tony, I had a similar intermittent problem with static in my Tropicana. Turned out to be a failing cap. Thanks for sharing. Those machines are wonderful when everything's dialed in but they do occasionally present some interesting repair opportunities. Dean On Friday, September 5, 2025 at 07:47:30 AM PDT, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Hi Tony,
That's interesting. I messed about a lot with that age of Rowe Ami. In fact that's the only Amp/Preamp that I know anything about. I've never experienced your problem but had some similar interference down to a lighting choke some years ago. I tend to pull the mute plug from the amp and do a bit of diagnostics without the mech in play mode. Just makes life a bit easier to diagnose it. I guess if you did that with the mech at rest, your static would have disappeared. I'll know next time if I get static to pull the turntable power plug to the side of the mech. Owning a JBM for almost 40 years I think I've experienced every flipping problem that machine can throw at me - and they do ! Usually the cue for a problem to arise is half an hour before guests arrive.
Earlier this year I had really bad static and it turned out to be the base of one of the inverter valves. It drove me nuts, but did force me to replace all remaining old resistors in that area of the amp, so at least I came out of it with more improvement in sound.
Nigel, uk
On 5 Sept 2025 at 14:08, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Just wanted to share this.
I have an AMI JAL in the shop. One of the many problems was an intermittent static like noise in the speakers. I thought it had the sound of a 60 cycle arc, if you can imagine that. It didn't do it on the bench, but it was intermittent. It was very loud and would go up and down with the volume control. I pulled the inputs and it still did it. Started pulling tubes in the pre amp, then in the power amp. It didn't completely go away until I pulled all 4 output tubes. Somewhere along the line I had even unplugged the pre amp from the power amp and only had the output tubes in it. (they tested good) It still had the noise but very, very quiet. I had to have my ear close to the speaker to hear it.
To make a long story a little shorter, it was a bad turntable motor cam switch arcing and causing interference. When I pulled it out, it had about 80 ohms resistance. (Even with the bad switch in, it still played records at normal speed.)
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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The JAL has what I think is the first 1100 mech. The search unit is different than the JAN and on. A one model only search unit. And this one just started acting up. Talk about a crappy plug! If the plug becomes a problem, I can replace it with the plug everyone is familiar with. I just had the keyboard apart for cleaning and it doesn't look like any other I've worked on. The selector contacts are on a printed circuit board and wipers slide on top of them. It looks like a nice setup. It looks like a Seeburg button unit with the gold contacts that make as the button is pressed, but these slide to make and break. (and they aren't gold flashed) Anyway, it has a fairly large viewing area and has a mech shroud so it all looks pretty. In this link you can see the turntable through the "window". It also has the almost psychedelic thingy at the top right, and the one in the shop actually works. https://selectjukeboxes.co.uk/products/rowe-ami-jal-200-selections-1964 Tony On 9/5/2025 1:43 PM, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
That's a very succinct way of putting it Dean.
I see many Tropicanas for sale. I probably see 10 Tropicanas for every Diplomat or Bandstand that I see. They must have made loads. And where I live in England I remember some of them were in use up until the early to mid 80s. so my conclusion is the JAL and JEL looked too old too soon, and the Tropicanas had a hard and long life, so are like a car with a million miles on the clock. Some design faults - individually named buttons that were easy to break or burn. (I've seen operators aftermarket sets of aluminium ones, just that they don't light up). Awful search unit connector. Annoying side speaker design. Easy to break your host glass. . Plus all the age related issues. The last visible mechanism Ami to be made, if you count the little cut out window for the price of play as visible, which everyone does. But like Dean mentions, wonderful when all set up, and the most amazing sound as well.
Nigel, uk
On 5 Sept 2025 at 16:48, Dean Carriveau via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Hi Tony, I had a similar intermittent problem with static in my Tropicana. Turned out to be a failing cap. Thanks for sharing. Those machines are wonderful when everything's dialed in but they do occasionally present some interesting repair opportunities. Dean On Friday, September 5, 2025 at 07:47:30 AM PDT, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Hi Tony,
That's interesting. I messed about a lot with that age of Rowe Ami. In fact that's the only Amp/Preamp that I know anything about. I've never experienced your problem but had some similar interference down to a lighting choke some years ago. I tend to pull the mute plug from the amp and do a bit of diagnostics without the mech in play mode. Just makes life a bit easier to diagnose it. I guess if you did that with the mech at rest, your static would have disappeared. I'll know next time if I get static to pull the turntable power plug to the side of the mech. Owning a JBM for almost 40 years I think I've experienced every flipping problem that machine can throw at me - and they do ! Usually the cue for a problem to arise is half an hour before guests arrive.
Earlier this year I had really bad static and it turned out to be the base of one of the inverter valves. It drove me nuts, but did force me to replace all remaining old resistors in that area of the amp, so at least I came out of it with more improvement in sound.
Nigel, uk
On 5 Sept 2025 at 14:08, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Just wanted to share this.
I have an AMI JAL in the shop. One of the many problems was an intermittent static like noise in the speakers. I thought it had the sound of a 60 cycle arc, if you can imagine that. It didn't do it on the bench, but it was intermittent. It was very loud and would go up and down with the volume control. I pulled the inputs and it still did it. Started pulling tubes in the pre amp, then in the power amp. It didn't completely go away until I pulled all 4 output tubes. Somewhere along the line I had even unplugged the pre amp from the power amp and only had the output tubes in it. (they tested good) It still had the noise but very, very quiet. I had to have my ear close to the speaker to hear it.
To make a long story a little shorter, it was a bad turntable motor cam switch arcing and causing interference. When I pulled it out, it had about 80 ohms resistance. (Even with the bad switch in, it still played records at normal speed.)
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
Yes the JAL was the first Rowe, followed by the JEL which was the same as a JAL with cabinet style/colour revisions and mech revisions. I had quite a few in the 80s. They were cheap then. They have a large mech viewing area. The JBM Tropicana has a viewing area the size of a pack of cards - it's the orifice where the price of play card would go. Some JALs in Italy still had the Continental mech in them. The original search units had gears not belts and the connection of a metal comb was on the top. The comb was replaced with a nylon connector mid Tropicana run, and later in the JAN run the search unit PCB was switched to have a side connector and belts instead of gears. All are interchangeable btw. The nylon connector is awful but the metal comp was horrendous. Nylon one is good until you need to remove it. I avoid as much as possible. If you do need to, before reassembling clean the pins and the PCB part of the connector with deoxit. I've found it is the only product that will make that work reliably. The good thing is they learnt as they went along, and lots of parts you can swap with ones off much later machines up to the R80 that have all the revisions in them. My Tropicana has an R80 search unit and it's silent. I keep my original one to take to repairs to eliminate customers selection issues. Nigel
On 5 Sept 2025 at 20:15, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
The JAL has what I think is the first 1100 mech. The search unit is different than the JAN and on. A one model only search unit. And this one just started acting up. Talk about a crappy plug! If the plug becomes a problem, I can replace it with the plug everyone is familiar with. I just had the keyboard apart for cleaning and it doesn't look like any other I've worked on. The selector contacts are on a printed circuit board and wipers slide on top of them. It looks like a nice setup. It looks like a Seeburg button unit with the gold contacts that make as the button is pressed, but these slide to make and break. (and they aren't gold flashed)
Anyway, it has a fairly large viewing area and has a mech shroud so it all looks pretty. In this link you can see the turntable through the "window". It also has the almost psychedelic thingy at the top right, and the one in the shop actually works.
https://selectjukeboxes.co.uk/products/rowe-ami-jal-200-selections-1964
Tony
On 9/5/2025 1:43 PM, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list wrote:
That's a very succinct way of putting it Dean.
I see many Tropicanas for sale. I probably see 10 Tropicanas for every Diplomat or Bandstand that I see. They must have made loads. And where I live in England I remember some of them were in use up until the early to mid 80s. so my conclusion is the JAL and JEL looked too old too soon, and the Tropicanas had a hard and long life, so are like a car with a million miles on the clock. Some design faults - individually named buttons that were easy to break or burn. (I've seen operators aftermarket sets of aluminium ones, just that they don't light up). Awful search unit connector. Annoying side speaker design. Easy to break your host glass. . Plus all the age related issues. The last visible mechanism Ami to be made, if you count the little cut out window for the price of play as visible, which everyone does. But like Dean mentions, wonderful when all set up, and the most amazing sound as well.
Nigel, uk
On 5 Sept 2025 at 16:48, Dean Carriveau via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Hi Tony, I had a similar intermittent problem with static in my Tropicana. Turned out to be a failing cap. Thanks for sharing. Those machines are wonderful when everything's dialed in but they do occasionally present some interesting repair opportunities. Dean On Friday, September 5, 2025 at 07:47:30 AM PDT, Nigel Pugh via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Hi Tony,
That's interesting. I messed about a lot with that age of Rowe Ami. In fact that's the only Amp/Preamp that I know anything about. I've never experienced your problem but had some similar interference down to a lighting choke some years ago. I tend to pull the mute plug from the amp and do a bit of diagnostics without the mech in play mode. Just makes life a bit easier to diagnose it. I guess if you did that with the mech at rest, your static would have disappeared. I'll know next time if I get static to pull the turntable power plug to the side of the mech. Owning a JBM for almost 40 years I think I've experienced every flipping problem that machine can throw at me - and they do ! Usually the cue for a problem to arise is half an hour before guests arrive.
Earlier this year I had really bad static and it turned out to be the base of one of the inverter valves. It drove me nuts, but did force me to replace all remaining old resistors in that area of the amp, so at least I came out of it with more improvement in sound.
Nigel, uk
On 5 Sept 2025 at 14:08, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
Just wanted to share this.
I have an AMI JAL in the shop. One of the many problems was an intermittent static like noise in the speakers. I thought it had the sound of a 60 cycle arc, if you can imagine that. It didn't do it on the bench, but it was intermittent. It was very loud and would go up and down with the volume control. I pulled the inputs and it still did it. Started pulling tubes in the pre amp, then in the power amp. It didn't completely go away until I pulled all 4 output tubes. Somewhere along the line I had even unplugged the pre amp from the power amp and only had the output tubes in it. (they tested good) It still had the noise but very, very quiet. I had to have my ear close to the speaker to hear it.
To make a long story a little shorter, it was a bad turntable motor cam switch arcing and causing interference. When I pulled it out, it had about 80 ohms resistance. (Even with the bad switch in, it still played records at normal speed.)
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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-- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
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On 9/5/25 06:07, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
Probably yes. Also, if you were to fart within 10 feet of the breaker panel, the arc fault breaker would smell it and trip. If you run an electric motor with brushes, trip. GMRS walkie-talkie, trip. Fluorescent light with a starter, trip. If it's Thursday they've been known to trip. Arc fault breakers need less of an excuse to trip than than most Grateful Dead fans. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
Nigel, Right on the money. I could not agree with you more. True workhorses they were. Dean On Friday, September 5, 2025 at 07:34:15 PM PDT, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list <jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote: On 9/5/25 06:07, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
Probably yes. Also, if you were to fart within 10 feet of the breaker panel, the arc fault breaker would smell it and trip. If you run an electric motor with brushes, trip. GMRS walkie-talkie, trip. Fluorescent light with a starter, trip. If it's Thursday they've been known to trip. Arc fault breakers need less of an excuse to trip than than most Grateful Dead fans. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
On 9/5/2025 10:33 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list wrote:
On 9/5/25 06:07, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
Probably yes. Also, if you were to fart within 10 feet of the breaker panel, the arc fault breaker would smell it and trip. If you run an electric motor with brushes, trip. GMRS walkie-talkie, trip. Fluorescent light with a starter, trip. If it's Thursday they've been known to trip.
Arc fault breakers need less of an excuse to trip than than most Grateful Dead fans.
LOL. I haven't had the pleasure of working with or near them, I just knew they existed. Something tells me that you aren't very fond of them. ;) -- Tony Miklos Tony's Jukebox Repair
On 9/5/25 06:07, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
It now makes me wonder if I had had an arc fault interrupter circuit breaker in my electric panel, if it would have tripped.
I had one that tripped every time a light on a string of outdoor Christmaslights burned out. I'm not convinced that these are better than a proverbialpenny in the fuse box.
participants (5)
-
David Breneman -
Dean Carriveau -
jay＠west.net -
Nigel Pugh -
Tony Miklos