On 1/1/2023 6:23 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
Trying to narrow down this annoying warble sound. Does it on all records but not always easy to hear. I only hear it in the vocals and just on the A side. B sides are OK. The motor mounts are all nice and soft as is the motor coupler. It does it at all volumes low or high, low or high bass/treble. Can a failing motor drive cap cause it? I know the motor cap is getting switched going from play to select/scan mode, that difference is easy to hear from the motor.
This machine is mine and although it's in nice condition, they are so ugly I might have to part it out. It got put aside but I have limited space for other machines in the shop so I'd like to sell it/get rid of it. I can't sell it with the warble. Any clues yet as to what is causing this? I didn't try changing the motor cap since it does it on only one side.
In no particular order, likely causes are:
Missing/deteriorated rubber bushings in the flywheel. These couple the drive ‘yoke” and the flywheel.
Excessive looseness in the thrust bearing on the shafts of either the vertical worm gear or the turntable shaft.
The long vertical bearing above the worm can cause flutter due to lack of lubrication. The result is often glazing of the bearing, which displaces oil. But this is often associated with a loud screech as well.
Damage to any of the continuous drive gears. In particular the fiber gear.
Badly misaligned motor which causes excessive vibration. When it get bad enough to cause flutter, you’ll feel the mach vibrating.
RobNYC
On Friday, January 27, 2023, 07:58:33 AM GMT-5, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com wrote:
On 1/1/2023 6:23 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
Trying to narrow down this annoying warble sound. Does it on all records but not always easy to hear. I only hear it in the vocals and just on the A side. B sides are OK. The motor mounts are all nice and soft as is the motor coupler. It does it at all volumes low or high, low or high bass/treble. Can a failing motor drive cap cause it? I know the motor cap is getting switched going from play to select/scan mode, that difference is easy to hear from the motor.
This machine is mine and although it's in nice condition, they are so ugly I might have to part it out. It got put aside but I have limited space for other machines in the shop so I'd like to sell it/get rid of it. I can't sell it with the warble. Any clues yet as to what is causing this? I didn't try changing the motor cap since it does it on only one side.
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Thanks Rob, I should have said everything I already checked.
I can't say that I've "seen" the rubber bushings on the flywheel/turntable, but when turning it each way it seems to be cushioned well.
The motor is a bit noisier than most, maybe I'll take it apart and give it a good going over, or first loosen it up top and bottom and try moving it around.
The rest I had checked/lubed/adjusted already.
But right now I'm on a Wurlitzer 1400. Ugh, I don't like those mechs.
On 1/27/2023 12:41 PM, Chan Gade wrote:
In no particular order, likely causes are:
Missing/deteriorated rubber bushings in the flywheel. These couple the drive ‘yoke” and the flywheel.
Excessive looseness in the thrust bearing on the shafts of either the vertical worm gear or the turntable shaft.
The long vertical bearing above the worm can cause flutter due to lack of lubrication. The result is often glazing of the bearing, which displaces oil. But this is often associated with a loud screech as well.
Damage to any of the continuous drive gears. In particular the fiber gear.
Badly misaligned motor which causes excessive vibration. When it get bad enough to cause flutter, you’ll feel the mach vibrating.
RobNYC
On Friday, January 27, 2023, 07:58:33 AM GMT-5, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com wrote:
On 1/1/2023 6:23 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
Trying to narrow down this annoying warble sound. Does it on all records but not always easy to hear. I only hear it in the vocals and just on the A side. B sides are OK. The motor mounts are all nice and soft as is the motor coupler. It does it at all volumes low or high, low or high bass/treble. Can a failing motor drive cap cause it? I know the motor cap is getting switched going from play to select/scan mode, that difference is easy to hear from the motor.
This machine is mine and although it's in nice condition, they are so ugly I might have to part it out. It got put aside but I have limited space for other machines in the shop so I'd like to sell it/get rid of it. I can't sell it with the warble. Any clues yet as to what is causing this? I didn't try changing the motor cap since it does it on only one side.
Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
The “bushings’ are more like rubber collars that cushion the coupling of the T-T and the geared stem driving it. You can just barely see them looking at the rear of the T-T on the right.
I forgot to mention that by your model, I believe Seeburg was omitting the rubber support plug under the motor. This allows the motor mounts to sag with the weight of the motor. Eventually, the motor rests against the casting protrusion where the rubber would have been and added vibration occurs.
The plug is now available. Years ago I used to just cut a small piece of rubber padding about 1/4th in thick and stuff it under the motor between it and the support.
RobNYC
On 1/28/23 06:57, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
Thanks Rob, I should have said everything I already checked.
I can't say that I've "seen" the rubber bushings on the flywheel/turntable, but when turning it each way it seems to be cushioned well.
The motor is a bit noisier than most, maybe I'll take it apart and give it a good going over, or first loosen it up top and bottom and try moving it around.
The rest I had checked/lubed/adjusted already.
Other possibilities:
Motor coupling.
Clutch - do you hear a periodic mechanical "tick" from the mechanism if you turn the volume down?
Mech cover rubbing against turntable.
Clamp arm bearing.
Thanks, I will pull the motor although I don't recall it sagging (I have seen the ones that do) Why did they omit that rubber anyway? Long ago I bought some 1/4" thick rubber bumpers with adhesive on them and that's what I use.
This is something I have never run into before all these years.
Tony
On 1/28/2023 1:54 PM, Chan Gade wrote:
The “bushings’ are more like rubber collars that cushion the coupling of the T-T and the geared stem driving it. You can just barely see them looking at the rear of the T-T on the right.
I forgot to mention that by your model, I believe Seeburg was omitting the rubber support plug under the motor. This allows the motor mounts to sag with the weight of the motor. Eventually, the motor rests against the casting protrusion where the rubber would have been and added vibration occurs.
The plug is now available. Years ago I used to just cut a small piece of rubber padding about 1/4th in thick and stuff it under the motor between it and the support.
RobNYC
On 1/28/2023 3:15 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list wrote:
Other possibilities:
Motor coupling.
Clutch - do you hear a periodic mechanical "tick" from the mechanism if you turn the volume down?
Mech cover rubbing against turntable.
Clamp arm bearing.
Thanks Jay
The motor coupling feels soft but when I pull the motor I'll replace it anyway. Who knows, it could be off centered or something strange like that?
It's not the clutch.
I believe it is too consistent to be the clamp arm bearing, not that it couldn't be it, but like said, it only does it on the A sides.
The mech cover is removed.
The mech itself makes no audible sound, it's only heard when playing, and even then it's hard to hear on a lot of records, but others with vocals and quieter music. Or just vocals.
I probably won't have time to look at it again until later next week.
Tony
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