I've seen this done a few times to be able to use a newer cartridge. Is it worth the while and which tone arm did you/they use? The one I saw actually added a second amp feeding remote speakers for true stereo. I'd be staying mono.
I think the thought process behind this conversion is primarily the cost of the stylus. I don’t remember why but Ron was not a big fan of this On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 8:02 AM Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
I've seen this done a few times to be able to use a newer cartridge. Is it worth the while and which tone arm did you/they use? The one I saw actually added a second amp feeding remote speakers for true stereo. I'd be staying mono.
_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
On 5/14/23 05:01, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
I've seen this done a few times to be able to use a newer cartridge. Is it worth the while and which tone arm did you/they use? The one I saw actually added a second amp feeding remote speakers for true stereo. I'd be staying mono.
This was done primarily to accommodate stereo records without damage. The red-head with the straight stylus had no vertical compliance, meaning that the stylus had no "give" when it came to up-and-down movement. This was fine for monaural records where the grooves move side-to-side. With stereo records, each channel is cut at a 45-degree angle, meaning that stereo difference information winds up being up-and-down. Playing stereo records with a red-head will quickly wear out the records. Availability and quality of suitable replacement styli has varied over the years. The recent L-shaped styli for the red-head when purchased from a reputable source are quite good and won't damage stereo records. The T-style stereo cartridge/stylus used in the early stereo Seeburgs also has had its history of bad aftermarket styli, although these have improved as well. The "best" swap is for one of the late stereo tonearm/stylus combinations with the snap-in cartridge. These are pretty much the same design as the coveted 345-03D replacement cartridges. There are some tweaks necessary in terms of trip switch and counterweight fitment with these tonearms, especially with some mech covers. If you have a good red-head cartridge, I'd try a pair of the newer L-shaped styli and if you get good performance I'd leave it alone. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
If anyone needs a tonearm and / or cartridges contact me off list I have plenty Regards Rick On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 3:32 PM Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list < jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> wrote:
On 5/14/23 05:01, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
I've seen this done a few times to be able to use a newer cartridge. Is it worth the while and which tone arm did you/they use? The one I saw actually added a second amp feeding remote speakers for true stereo. I'd be staying mono.
This was done primarily to accommodate stereo records without damage. The red-head with the straight stylus had no vertical compliance, meaning that the stylus had no "give" when it came to up-and-down movement.
This was fine for monaural records where the grooves move side-to-side. With stereo records, each channel is cut at a 45-degree angle, meaning that stereo difference information winds up being up-and-down. Playing stereo records with a red-head will quickly wear out the records.
Availability and quality of suitable replacement styli has varied over the years. The recent L-shaped styli for the red-head when purchased from a reputable source are quite good and won't damage stereo records.
The T-style stereo cartridge/stylus used in the early stereo Seeburgs also has had its history of bad aftermarket styli, although these have improved as well.
The "best" swap is for one of the late stereo tonearm/stylus combinations with the snap-in cartridge. These are pretty much the same design as the coveted 345-03D replacement cartridges. There are some tweaks necessary in terms of trip switch and counterweight fitment with these tonearms, especially with some mech covers.
If you have a good red-head cartridge, I'd try a pair of the newer L-shaped styli and if you get good performance I'd leave it alone.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list -- jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com To unsubscribe send an email to jukebox-list-leave@lists.netlojix.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Searchable Archives: http://jukebox.markmail.org/
On 5/14/2023 3:31 PM, Jay Hennigan via Jukebox-list wrote:
On 5/14/23 05:01, Tony Miklos via Jukebox-list wrote:
I've seen this done a few times to be able to use a newer cartridge. Is it worth the while and which tone arm did you/they use? The one I saw actually added a second amp feeding remote speakers for true stereo. I'd be staying mono.
This was done primarily to accommodate stereo records without damage. The red-head with the straight stylus had no vertical compliance, meaning that the stylus had no "give" when it came to up-and-down movement.
This was fine for monaural records where the grooves move side-to-side. With stereo records, each channel is cut at a 45-degree angle, meaning that stereo difference information winds up being up-and-down. Playing stereo records with a red-head will quickly wear out the records.
Availability and quality of suitable replacement styli has varied over the years. The recent L-shaped styli for the red-head when purchased from a reputable source are quite good and won't damage stereo records.
The T-style stereo cartridge/stylus used in the early stereo Seeburgs also has had its history of bad aftermarket styli, although these have improved as well.
The "best" swap is for one of the late stereo tonearm/stylus combinations with the snap-in cartridge. These are pretty much the same design as the coveted 345-03D replacement cartridges. There are some tweaks necessary in terms of trip switch and counterweight fitment with these tonearms, especially with some mech covers.
If you have a good red-head cartridge, I'd try a pair of the newer L-shaped styli and if you get good performance I'd leave it alone.
Thanks Jay. I do use the L shaped styli (for 20+ some years (30?)) and yes, some are good and some aren't. Seems to be that way with most any stylus these days. I just recall seeing that done before and wondered if they give better sound.
I’ve gone over this in detail on other forums. I always upgraded to the 340 or 345 (w/yellow shroud styli) in all my location machines. Today, with no original styli and variable quality generics, if you are just using the machine at home and aren’t upgrading the speakers in any way, you might as well use the cart it came with. The red mono does suffer from noticeable dulling of the highs as the stylus nears the end of the record. This isn’t trip switch. It seems to be mostly related to the lower compliance of the styli and “pinch effect”. It occurs in both the mono spikes and offset styli. Another thing to consider is the output of the cart and how it drives the rest of the chain. Putting a modern one in an old mono machine designed for the black or red mono cart with result in much lower level. This will affect the AGC (if used) and bass boost since the volume control will have to be turned up higher. In some cases it is easy to bypass the original preamp with one having more gain, that it what I do. But in some of the older mono amps (HFMA1 and earlier) more extensive mods are needed. RobNYC
participants (4)
-
Chan Gade -
Jay Hennigan -
Jukebox Repairman -
Tony Miklos