From johndt3 at verizon.net Sun Feb 1 08:37:03 2009 From: johndt3 at verizon.net (JOHN TAYLOR) Date: Sun Feb 1 09:40:01 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier Message-ID: <4985CFAF.20601@verizon.net> I could really use some help on this one, it's probably going to take one of you engineers. I'm trying to locate a potentiometer for the volume control of a Wurlitzer 544 amplifier. I've searched all the regular places, Verns, Always Juking, Victory Glass, eBay, and so forth. I thought perhaps I could purchase it directly from an electronics store. However, I'm not really sure what I'm looking at. It appears to be a 2 watt, dual gain, 500 K potentiometer with five lugs. I'm not familiar with the five lug configuration, it has three lugs on top, and two lugs on the bottom of each pot. The numbers that I can read on the back to the potentiometer are,-(120699 500 304 6309). I'm hoping that what you engineers can understand the configuration of this, and tell me which aspect of those numbers is the part number,-if not all the numbers. I know that some manufacturers code their date in numbers, and/or are use the first section, or the last section as the part number, and so forth,-depending upon the manufacturer. I can't find a name on it, so, I'm really not sure what to ask for, or search for at an electronics store to be sure to get the right one. We have purchased a manual for the 2800 Wurlitzer jukebox, but it shows the amplifier to be a 545. I'm assuming that the potentiometers are the same although there wiring is configured differently in the schematic for the 545, versus the actual amplifier, which is a 544 according to the model number on the amplifier in itself. The manual is where I got the information that it is a 500 K., there is also a part number in the manual, but I believe that is the Wurlitzer part number, which is useless to me since Wurlitzer does not carry these parts any longer. Anyway, the information in the manual says, (part number 120699,-value 500 K., remarks duel loudness. As I said, I could really use some help on this one. If someone knows where I can get one of these used potentiometers, or perhaps order one a new one from a electronic supplier, could you please share your knowledge with me. Thanks in advance John From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 09:59:19 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 1 10:00:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier In-Reply-To: <4985CFAF.20601@verizon.net> Message-ID: <469728.38604.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Did you try John Robertson at www.flippers.com??? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/1/09, JOHN TAYLOR wrote: From: JOHN TAYLOR Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:37 AM I could really use some help on this one, it's probably going to take one of you engineers. I'm trying to locate a potentiometer for the volume control of a Wurlitzer 544 amplifier. I've searched all the regular places, Verns, Always Juking, Victory Glass, eBay, and so forth. I thought perhaps I could purchase it directly from an electronics store. However, I'm not really sure what I'm looking at. It appears to be a 2 watt, dual gain, 500 K potentiometer with five lugs. I'm not familiar with the five lug configuration, it has three lugs on top, and two lugs on the bottom of each pot. The numbers that I can read on the back to the potentiometer are,-(120699 500 304 6309). I'm hoping that what you engineers can understand the configuration of this, and tell me which aspect of those numbers is the part number,-if not all the numbers. I know that some manufacturers code their date in numbers, and/or are use the first section, or the last section as the part number, and so forth,-depending upon the manufacturer. I can't find a name on it, so, I'm really not sure what to ask for, or search for at an electronics store to be sure to get the right one. We have purchased a manual for the 2800 Wurlitzer jukebox, but it shows the amplifier to be a 545. I'm assuming that the potentiometers are the same although there wiring is configured differently in the schematic for the 545, versus the actual amplifier, which is a 544 according to the model number on the amplifier in itself. The manual is where I got the information that it is a 500 K., there is also a part number in the manual, but I believe that is the Wurlitzer part number, which is useless to me since Wurlitzer does not carry these parts any longer. Anyway, the information in the manual says, (part number 120699,-value 500 K., remarks duel loudness. As I said, I could really use some help on this one. If someone knows where I can get one of these used potentiometers, or perhaps order one a new one from a electronic supplier, could you please share your knowledge with me. Thanks in advance John _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From johndt3 at verizon.net Sun Feb 1 10:14:46 2009 From: johndt3 at verizon.net (JOHN TAYLOR) Date: Sun Feb 1 10:16:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier In-Reply-To: <469728.38604.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <469728.38604.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4985E696.4020901@verizon.net> I tried searching their website, but I had negative results. the only Wurlitzer component parts that I could find were for the newer Wurlitzer's, and the German Wurlitzer's,-(made in Germany). I haven't talked to anyone or e-mailed anyone there. John D. Taylor III Ron Rich wrote: > Did you try John Robertson at www.flippers.com ? Ron Rich > > --- On Sun, 2/1/09, JOHN TAYLOR wrote: > > From: JOHN TAYLOR > Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:37 AM > > I could really use some help on this one, it's probably going to take one > of you engineers. I'm trying to locate a potentiometer for the volume > control of a Wurlitzer 544 amplifier. I've searched all the regular places, > Verns, Always Juking, Victory Glass, eBay, and so forth. I thought perhaps I > could purchase it directly from an electronics store. However, I'm not > really sure what I'm looking at. It appears to be a 2 watt, dual gain, 500 > K potentiometer with five lugs. I'm not familiar with the five lug > configuration, it has three lugs on top, and two lugs on the bottom of each pot. > > The numbers that I can read on the back to the potentiometer are,-(120699 500 > 304 6309). I'm hoping that what you engineers can understand the > configuration of this, and tell me which aspect of those numbers is the part > number,-if not all the numbers. I know that some manufacturers code their date > in numbers, and/or are use the first section, or the last section as the part > number, and so forth,-depending upon the manufacturer. I can't find a name > on it, so, I'm really not sure what to ask for, or search for at an > electronics store to be sure to get the right one. > We have purchased a manual for the 2800 Wurlitzer jukebox, but it shows the > amplifier to be a 545. I'm assuming that the potentiometers are the same > although there wiring is configured differently in the schematic for the 545, > versus the actual amplifier, which is a 544 according to the model number on the > amplifier in itself. The manual is where I got the information that it is a 500 > K., there is also a part number in the manual, but I believe that is the > Wurlitzer part number, which is useless to me since Wurlitzer does not carry > these parts any longer. Anyway, the information in the manual says, (part number > 120699,-value 500 K., remarks duel loudness. > > As I said, I could really use some help on this one. If someone knows where I > can get one of these used potentiometers, or perhaps order one a new one from a > electronic supplier, could you please share your knowledge with me. > > Thanks in advance > John > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > From pinball at telus.net Sun Feb 1 13:24:43 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 1 13:25:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier In-Reply-To: <4985E696.4020901@verizon.net> References: <469728.38604.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4985E696.4020901@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4986131B.6040700@telus.net> I will check stock on Tuesday for you. Should have that one... John :-#)# JOHN TAYLOR wrote: > > I tried searching their website, but I had negative results. the only > Wurlitzer component parts that I could find were for the newer > Wurlitzer's, and the German Wurlitzer's,-(made in Germany). I haven't > talked to anyone or e-mailed anyone there. > > John D. Taylor III > > Ron Rich wrote: >> Did you try John Robertson at www.flippers.com ? Ron Rich >> >> --- On Sun, 2/1/09, JOHN TAYLOR wrote: >> >> From: JOHN TAYLOR >> Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier >> To: "Jukebox mailing list" >> Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:37 AM >> >> I could really use some help on this one, it's probably going to take >> one >> of you engineers. I'm trying to locate a potentiometer for the volume >> control of a Wurlitzer 544 amplifier. I've searched all the regular >> places, >> Verns, Always Juking, Victory Glass, eBay, and so forth. I thought >> perhaps I >> could purchase it directly from an electronics store. However, I'm not >> really sure what I'm looking at. It appears to be a 2 watt, dual >> gain, 500 >> K potentiometer with five lugs. I'm not familiar with the five lug >> configuration, it has three lugs on top, and two lugs on the bottom >> of each pot. >> >> The numbers that I can read on the back to the potentiometer >> are,-(120699 500 >> 304 6309). I'm hoping that what you engineers can understand the >> configuration of this, and tell me which aspect of those numbers is >> the part >> number,-if not all the numbers. I know that some manufacturers code >> their date >> in numbers, and/or are use the first section, or the last section as >> the part >> number, and so forth,-depending upon the manufacturer. I can't find >> a name >> on it, so, I'm really not sure what to ask for, or search for at an >> electronics store to be sure to get the right one. We have purchased >> a manual for the 2800 Wurlitzer jukebox, but it shows the >> amplifier to be a 545. I'm assuming that the potentiometers are the same >> although there wiring is configured differently in the schematic for >> the 545, >> versus the actual amplifier, which is a 544 according to the model >> number on the >> amplifier in itself. The manual is where I got the information that >> it is a 500 >> K., there is also a part number in the manual, but I believe that is the >> Wurlitzer part number, which is useless to me since Wurlitzer does >> not carry >> these parts any longer. Anyway, the information in the manual says, >> (part number >> 120699,-value 500 K., remarks duel loudness. >> >> As I said, I could really use some help on this one. If someone >> knows where I >> can get one of these used potentiometers, or perhaps order one a new >> one from a >> electronic supplier, could you please share your knowledge with me. >> >> Thanks in advance >> John >> _______________________________________________ >> Jukebox-list mailing list >> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Jukebox-list mailing list >> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sun Feb 1 15:05:09 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 1 15:07:43 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier Message-ID: <20090201.180509.18063.0@webmail10.vgs.untd.com> John: The Wurl 544 stereo volume control you're looking for is the same on both the 545 and 544 amp models. It is a 500K ohm control, 2 watt. The two extra lugs you see on each control section are taps at 1/3 and 2/3 of the stator's value. These taps support the operation of the amp's loudness contour function. (as the volume is reduced,bass and treble freqs. are boosted to maintain a "full" sound.) This control is unique mechanically because it has the key-slot in the control shaft. There is a slotted opening in the rear to accept Wurlitzer's remote motorized control function. As a servicer, in my opinion, it will be tough to find an equivalent modern day replacement,while keeping all the features needed. You'll do best to find an original replacement part. Possibly, John Robertson (www.flippers.com) could help. Another source might be Bill Bickers (www.jukeboxfridaynight.com) Barring that, I have seen old Wurl. 544-545 amp chassis being sold on E Bay "as-is" for as little as 9.95. You might need to buy one of these for the vol. control assembly. Good Luck. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Easy-to-use, advanced features, flexible phone systems. Click here for more info. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAzrQHH5bQzGwc1FkOL04d3GPmsKLLe7S8jGCP8VMvD3lWOq/ From johndt3 at verizon.net Sun Feb 1 14:35:28 2009 From: johndt3 at verizon.net (JOHN TAYLOR) Date: Sun Feb 1 15:39:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier In-Reply-To: <4986131B.6040700@telus.net> References: <469728.38604.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4985E696.4020901@verizon.net> <4986131B.6040700@telus.net> Message-ID: <498623B0.8060008@verizon.net> Thanks John John Taylor John Robertson wrote: > I will check stock on Tuesday for you. Should have that one... > > John :-#)# > > JOHN TAYLOR wrote: >> >> I tried searching their website, but I had negative results. the only >> Wurlitzer component parts that I could find were for the newer >> Wurlitzer's, and the German Wurlitzer's,-(made in Germany). I haven't >> talked to anyone or e-mailed anyone there. >> >> John D. Taylor III >> >> Ron Rich wrote: >>> Did you try John Robertson at www.flippers.com ? Ron Rich >>> >>> --- On Sun, 2/1/09, JOHN TAYLOR wrote: >>> >>> From: JOHN TAYLOR >>> Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier >>> To: "Jukebox mailing list" >>> Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:37 AM >>> >>> I could really use some help on this one, it's probably going to >>> take one >>> of you engineers. I'm trying to locate a potentiometer for the volume >>> control of a Wurlitzer 544 amplifier. I've searched all the regular >>> places, >>> Verns, Always Juking, Victory Glass, eBay, and so forth. I thought >>> perhaps I >>> could purchase it directly from an electronics store. However, I'm not >>> really sure what I'm looking at. It appears to be a 2 watt, dual >>> gain, 500 >>> K potentiometer with five lugs. I'm not familiar with the five lug >>> configuration, it has three lugs on top, and two lugs on the bottom >>> of each pot. >>> >>> The numbers that I can read on the back to the potentiometer >>> are,-(120699 500 >>> 304 6309). I'm hoping that what you engineers can understand the >>> configuration of this, and tell me which aspect of those numbers is >>> the part >>> number,-if not all the numbers. I know that some manufacturers code >>> their date >>> in numbers, and/or are use the first section, or the last section as >>> the part >>> number, and so forth,-depending upon the manufacturer. I can't find >>> a name >>> on it, so, I'm really not sure what to ask for, or search for at an >>> electronics store to be sure to get the right one. We have purchased >>> a manual for the 2800 Wurlitzer jukebox, but it shows the >>> amplifier to be a 545. I'm assuming that the potentiometers are the >>> same >>> although there wiring is configured differently in the schematic for >>> the 545, >>> versus the actual amplifier, which is a 544 according to the model >>> number on the >>> amplifier in itself. The manual is where I got the information that >>> it is a 500 >>> K., there is also a part number in the manual, but I believe that is >>> the >>> Wurlitzer part number, which is useless to me since Wurlitzer does >>> not carry >>> these parts any longer. Anyway, the information in the manual says, >>> (part number >>> 120699,-value 500 K., remarks duel loudness. >>> >>> As I said, I could really use some help on this one. If someone >>> knows where I >>> can get one of these used potentiometers, or perhaps order one a new >>> one from a >>> electronic supplier, could you please share your knowledge with me. >>> >>> Thanks in advance >>> John >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Jukebox-list mailing list >>> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >>> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Jukebox-list mailing list >>> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >>> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Jukebox-list mailing list >> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >> > > From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 16:20:42 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:21:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Hello, boys. In-Reply-To: <20090201200002.EC970AAF7D@lists.netlojix.com> References: <20090201200002.EC970AAF7D@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: Yes kids, I'm still alive. I took a year off to restore a car. I think I'm about ready to plunge into jukes again. Doing some upkeep on my Rock Ola 474 that I operated in a pizza place for a year. The dumbass, clueless owner put new tables in the blacked off access to the jukebox and make the place nearly impossible to otherwise walk through, so I brought it home. There's a AMI JAL 200, a Seebuger AY 160, and an SE 100 already in the wings, so plenty to keep busy. I won't be around daily as I'm just too busy, but I do check in and read once in a while. I also hope 2009 is a good year for everyone. It's tough right now, but hang in there. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 16:15:23 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:22:01 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: Wurlitzer 544 amplifier In-Reply-To: <20090201200002.EC970AAF7D@lists.netlojix.com> References: <20090201200002.EC970AAF7D@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: When logical avenues fail, there are alternatives. 1. See if you can pick up a junk amplifier on eBay, often partial amplifiers come up for sale. Check photos to see if the pot is there. 2. Look into the previous or next amplifier in the series. Often, they have many identical components. Once again, look at eBay for inspiration. If the amplifier looks nearly identical, then you're probably in luck. You can pick up an amp that's missing tubes, transformers, etc for as little as $10 sometimes. Heck, I've bought working amps for $20 on the 'Bay. *I'm not sure how old that amp is, but keep in mind that with double pots, this probably means a stereo amplifier, so if you do look into a similar amp for parts, it would also need to be stereo. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 From oldstuff1967 at yahoo.ca Sun Feb 1 16:57:03 2009 From: oldstuff1967 at yahoo.ca (Lala Blah Blah) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:58:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: Wurlitzer 544 amplifier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <626052.6196.qm@web111512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Kyle: It must have been some time ago you got a juke amp for $20 working on Ebay. I have been watching for about a year and your lucky if you can get a parted out one for under $80. I wish I could find a load of those old amps so I could get the output and power transformers off them. ? Regards, Tony --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote: From: Mechanical Music of S.F. Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: Wurlitzer 544 amplifier To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Received: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 7:15 PM When logical avenues fail, there are alternatives. 1. See if you can pick up a junk amplifier on eBay, often partial amplifiers come up for sale. Check photos to see if the pot is there. 2. Look into the previous or next amplifier in the series. Often, they have many identical components. Once again, look at eBay for inspiration. If the amplifier looks nearly identical, then you're probably in luck. You can pick up an amp that's missing tubes, transformers, etc for as little as $10 sometimes. Heck, I've bought working amps for $20 on the 'Bay. *I'm not sure how old that amp is, but keep in mind that with double pots, this probably means a stereo amplifier, so if you do look into a similar amp for parts, it would also need to be stereo. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. From jeremy at dwave.net Sun Feb 1 16:58:22 2009 From: jeremy at dwave.net (Jeremy Agema) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:59:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Hello, boys. In-Reply-To: References: <20090201200002.EC970AAF7D@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: <20090202005737.M75441@dwave.net> Great to hear from you Kyle! Jeremy Agema On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 16:20:42 -0800, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote > Yes kids, I'm still alive. > > I took a year off to restore a car. I think I'm about ready to > plunge into jukes again. Doing some upkeep on my Rock Ola 474 that > I operated in a pizza place for a year. The dumbass, clueless > owner put new tables in the blacked off access to the jukebox and > make the place nearly impossible to otherwise walk through, so I > brought it home. > > There's a AMI JAL 200, a Seebuger AY 160, and an SE 100 already in > the wings, so plenty to keep busy. > > I won't be around daily as I'm just too busy, but I do check in and > read once in a while. > > I also hope 2009 is a good year for everyone. It's tough right now, > but hang in there. > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > > _________________________________________________________________ [WINDOWS-1252?]> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. > http://windowslive.com/explore? ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009____________________________________ ___________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From david_breneman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 21:13:38 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Sun Feb 1 21:14:42 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Hello, boys. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <318736.99077.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote: > I took a year off to restore a car. What kind of car? Any pictures? From dave.halford at telent.com Mon Feb 2 01:19:14 2009 From: dave.halford at telent.com (dave.halford@telent.com) Date: Mon Feb 2 01:20:34 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <601298668B544C40BFCD4413E1109B2B@Lyn> Message-ID: <20090202091916.6A4FC78061@blade107.lb.inty.net> Hi David I'm down in south B'ham with a 443, just had a look at your site and.... Oil the gripper mech every time you use it till it behaves it's self otherwise you will have to dismantle. People seem to like greasing the gripper probably due to the cogs, mine was caked in dried grease. If the turntable underside edge and the idler wheel is grease/oil free then the wow is likely to be the motor running dry, there is a small pipe for oiling the motor bottom bearing, the top one is easy to get to. The steel band that stops the records falling out of the basket does not damage the record edges, the gripper however just might ! Check the records for curving rub marks, if the gripper is missaligned it will scrub the record past the white plastic buffers on the basket as well as chip the edges; not sure if yours has this adjustment. You can check it with the scan switch, the method is in the manual. regards Dave H "david" Sent by: To: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n cc: etlojix.com Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie 31/01/2009 00:41 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Hello everyone Not sure what the protocol is but I thought I would introduce myself having just joined. I am David from Derby in the UK and am the proud owner of a Rock-Ola 448. My Juke is in full working order, but displays some foibles which I have put down to poor maintenance. I intend to restore this juke to a working condition but not brand new, as I believe that "old" items should be restored sympathetically and not overdone. I understand that in the Jukebox world that this is not normal, am I right? I have created a website to cover the restoration at www.bowater.org.uk/jukebox Please let me have your web addresses and I will add to my links page. This is my first Juke restoration so if I am not doing it right then please let me know, we all have to start somewhere. So far all the family have loved being able to choose their own music, so I know I have made the right choice to go along with my normal hifi. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net From aaron at vertasource.com Mon Feb 2 05:50:29 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Mon Feb 2 05:46:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Message-ID: <200902020850951.SM00532@[192.168.1.206]> Well...I took the plunge! Many threads ago, we were all talking about using a Shure M44 cartridge in the AMI F or G juke in place of the GE VR-II. The purist in me said "NO WAY am I going to mount a newer cart into the AMI tone-arm because it looks horrible, completely throws off the alignment and tracking of the tonearm, and is just not right from a purist's point of view!" I was bored over the weekend, so I took an spare tonearm and figured out a quick and dirty way to get a Pickering NP/AC cart mounted to the front of tone-arm shell by NOT using the original mounting screws. While the tabs on the cart are almost a dead on match to the screw holes, the cart would sit way too high. This is where it not only looks stupid, but after you're done adjusting the set-down screws and the metal tension spring, the tone arm is almost at a 45 degree angle to the record you're trying to play! So my first mounting test involved double sided tape. It worked, but it wasn't the most secure way of attaching the cartridge. For testing purposes though, it worked just fine. For the final conversion, I devised a bracket that attaches to the mounting screws of the tonearm and locks the cart in place. Once I perfect this devise, I'll let everyone know how I did it if interested. So here's the dilemma. I was really surprised by the difference in the sound quality coming out of my G-120. Even my wife, who can't normally tell the difference between something that sounds good and something that sounds amazing, noticed that the clarity of the sound coming out was much better than ever before. Obviously, stereo records sound fantastic, but even some of my originals like "Mr. Lee" (Bobettes), and "Honey Hush" (Joe Turner) sound incredible. Needless to say that I think I'm going to make this a permanent conversion on the tone-arm for the G. One thing I did notice is that in order to get any loud volume...and by that I mean loud enough to hear the jukebox in the living room (which is in the front of the house) all the way from the family room (which is in the back of the house)... I have to run the R-145 amp at FULL volume. Nothing is distorting...there's no hum coming from the amp. Everything is fine. It's just that when I rebuilt this amp 4 years ago, something seemed to happen with the input. The VR-II cartridge seems to punch a little more into the amp, but the NP/AC doesn't have the drive into the amp to really shake the walls. I also tried an Astatic cart and a Shure. Same results. Sounded great...just not very loud. Rebuilding the R-145 is a snap....modifying it is a different story. Do any of the amp experts on the list know where I would make the modifications to allow a little more input into the amp? Logic tells me that it's a resistance value that's stepping down the amount of input needed to drive the amp....but I'm not an expert in making a modification like this and I don't want to blow anything out. But believe me...I'm sold! If you think that the F-G series was the most incredible sounding jukebox ever made... put a newer magnetic cart in the thing THEN listen! Wow! Thanks! Aaron From johndt3 at verizon.net Mon Feb 2 06:00:38 2009 From: johndt3 at verizon.net (JOHN TAYLOR) Date: Mon Feb 2 06:03:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier In-Reply-To: <4986131B.6040700@telus.net> References: <469728.38604.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4985E696.4020901@verizon.net> <4986131B.6040700@telus.net> Message-ID: <4986FC86.5060708@verizon.net> John, thanks for offering to check for me, but I just found out that a friend of my bought and old amp on eBay. Still, I'm sure I will be looking for other parts in the future, I'll be sure to check with you. John John Robertson wrote: > I will check stock on Tuesday for you. Should have that one... > > John :-#)# > > JOHN TAYLOR wrote: >> >> I tried searching their website, but I had negative results. the only >> Wurlitzer component parts that I could find were for the newer >> Wurlitzer's, and the German Wurlitzer's,-(made in Germany). I haven't >> talked to anyone or e-mailed anyone there. >> >> John D. Taylor III >> >> Ron Rich wrote: >>> Did you try John Robertson at www.flippers.com ? Ron Rich >>> >>> --- On Sun, 2/1/09, JOHN TAYLOR wrote: >>> >>> From: JOHN TAYLOR >>> Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier >>> To: "Jukebox mailing list" >>> Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:37 AM >>> >>> I could really use some help on this one, it's probably going to >>> take one >>> of you engineers. I'm trying to locate a potentiometer for the volume >>> control of a Wurlitzer 544 amplifier. I've searched all the regular >>> places, >>> Verns, Always Juking, Victory Glass, eBay, and so forth. I thought >>> perhaps I >>> could purchase it directly from an electronics store. However, I'm not >>> really sure what I'm looking at. It appears to be a 2 watt, dual >>> gain, 500 >>> K potentiometer with five lugs. I'm not familiar with the five lug >>> configuration, it has three lugs on top, and two lugs on the bottom >>> of each pot. >>> >>> The numbers that I can read on the back to the potentiometer >>> are,-(120699 500 >>> 304 6309). I'm hoping that what you engineers can understand the >>> configuration of this, and tell me which aspect of those numbers is >>> the part >>> number,-if not all the numbers. I know that some manufacturers code >>> their date >>> in numbers, and/or are use the first section, or the last section as >>> the part >>> number, and so forth,-depending upon the manufacturer. I can't find >>> a name >>> on it, so, I'm really not sure what to ask for, or search for at an >>> electronics store to be sure to get the right one. We have purchased >>> a manual for the 2800 Wurlitzer jukebox, but it shows the >>> amplifier to be a 545. I'm assuming that the potentiometers are the >>> same >>> although there wiring is configured differently in the schematic for >>> the 545, >>> versus the actual amplifier, which is a 544 according to the model >>> number on the >>> amplifier in itself. The manual is where I got the information that >>> it is a 500 >>> K., there is also a part number in the manual, but I believe that is >>> the >>> Wurlitzer part number, which is useless to me since Wurlitzer does >>> not carry >>> these parts any longer. Anyway, the information in the manual says, >>> (part number >>> 120699,-value 500 K., remarks duel loudness. >>> >>> As I said, I could really use some help on this one. If someone >>> knows where I >>> can get one of these used potentiometers, or perhaps order one a new >>> one from a >>> electronic supplier, could you please share your knowledge with me. >>> >>> Thanks in advance >>> John >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Jukebox-list mailing list >>> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >>> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Jukebox-list mailing list >>> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >>> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Jukebox-list mailing list >> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >> > > From dave.halford at telent.com Mon Feb 2 06:14:27 2009 From: dave.halford at telent.com (dave.halford@telent.com) Date: Mon Feb 2 06:15:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <200902020850951.SM00532@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <20090202141444.E8271AFAF9@blade209.la.inty.net> I put a Shure44mr and arm from a Rockola442 into my 443 in place of the stock ceramic, heck of a difference as you say. On carts normally used in hifi arms such as the Shure44; as long as the cart back is parallel to the record it will work fine, any odd angles will put the diamond into the record groove tilted and ruins the sound output. You only need to use a cart from a similar mass arm. regards Dave H This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net From johndt3 at verizon.net Mon Feb 2 05:49:49 2009 From: johndt3 at verizon.net (JOHN TAYLOR) Date: Mon Feb 2 06:53:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 544 amplifier In-Reply-To: <20090201.180509.18063.0@webmail10.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090201.180509.18063.0@webmail10.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <4986F9FD.3020901@verizon.net> Thanks for the info Jim. I'm always appreciative of someone that can teach me something I wanted to know, but didn't. John James Alexander wrote: > > John: > The Wurl 544 stereo volume control you're looking for is the same on both the 545 and 544 amp models. It is a 500K ohm control, 2 watt. The two extra lugs you see on each control section are taps at 1/3 and 2/3 of the stator's value. These taps support the operation of the amp's loudness contour function. (as the volume is reduced,bass and treble freqs. are boosted to maintain a "full" sound.) > This control is unique mechanically because it has the key-slot in the control shaft. There is a slotted opening in the rear to accept Wurlitzer's remote motorized control function. > As a servicer, in my opinion, it will be tough to find an equivalent modern day replacement,while keeping all the features needed. You'll do best to find an original replacement part. Possibly, John Robertson (www.flippers.com) could help. Another source might be Bill Bickers (www.jukeboxfridaynight.com) > Barring that, I have seen old Wurl. 544-545 amp chassis being sold on E Bay "as-is" for as little as 9.95. You might need to buy one of these for the vol. control assembly. > Good Luck. > Jim Alexander > ____________________________________________________________ > Easy-to-use, advanced features, flexible phone systems. Click here for more info. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAzrQHH5bQzGwc1FkOL04d3GPmsKLLe7S8jGCP8VMvD3lWOq/ > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 2 09:10:39 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 2 09:13:38 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Message-ID: <20090202.121039.29387.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com> Hello Aaron: I remember chatting with you about this. At the time, I was a little surprised that you decided to stay with the original GE pickup. Other tech advantages that you should gain with the use of a Pickering NP/AC stereo pickup is that you should be able to use less tracking pressure (about 5 grams is ideal) and that you will be able to play both old and new (stereo) records without undue wear. The GE cartridge operates on the principle of variable reluctance. You will see that the stylus needs to be positioned between the pole pieces of a magnet. As magnetic cartridges go, this type of pickup has a high output. Most modern mag. cartridges use either a moving coil or a moving magnet principle. These devices produce less output, requiring a higher setting on your amplifier's volume control. The Shure M44 cartridge is the same operation as the NP/AC (moving magnet) and will give you about the same output level. Converting to the M44 will not net you any volume improvement. With either stereo cartridge, you should tie the left and right outputs (Y connect) together, into the input of your mono amplifier. You can get slightly more output if you connected the 2 cartridge outputs in series with each other, but you will hear more tracing distortion in the records. (you'll lose that pristine sound quality you and your wife just discovered) If you are playing certain stereo records, where the audio is mixed to the extreme right or left channels, the balance of one recorded channel will be noticeably lower in your mono amp. What can you do to bring up the gain of the system? A couple of choices-- You could install a small outboard solid state preamp, that will drive a "hotter" signal into the AMI amp. This will require minor mods to the first stage of your AMI amp. (change 3 resistors) The preamp is an off-the shelf item that will need to mount next to the jukebox amp. I'll help you through this setup if you want to go this route. The second choice would be to change cartridges again. GE, in the 60's did make a stereo version of the VR-II cartridge called a VR-227. This was a high-output stereo variable-reluctance cartridge, that had the physical size and look of the old VR cartridge. The drawback to doing this is that VR-227's are in short supply now and it'll be hard to find one. Most of the jukebox needle guys seem to have replacement stylii for the 227 cartridge though. You would not need to make any mods to your amp if you put in this older stereo cartridge model. If it were me, I'd go the first route. It'll give the best possible tech performance, to match the quality of the restoration job you did. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Power up with a cell phone booster and never worry about weak signals again. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAGXfoQwQ4rxAI2rgMU3So7wWhQuTE8nauBDTG9KAeeKN8n0/ From aaron at vertasource.com Mon Feb 2 10:03:28 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Mon Feb 2 09:59:50 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Message-ID: <200902021303461.SM02412@[192.168.1.206]> Hi Jim. Thanks for the input. I remember when we had this conversation when we were discussing the cartridge on my Rock-Ola Tempo 1. However, that is a much easier thing to deal with since the amp in the Tempo is a stereo amp. Not so in the G-120. The R-145 is a pretty incredible amp for its size, and I've always had buckets of volume come out of it. It just struck me odd that when I rebuilt it 4 years ago, the sound quality was amazing, but I just didn't have the same insane amounts of volume coming out of it. I pulled it out over the weekend and double checked all my components... all were fine. I really didn't complain about the lack of punch until I put the NP/AC into the mix. I did indeed bridge the L/R pins together and the ground pins together as is the usual practice. So far, I haven't noticed any distortion or annoying characteristics from some of the stereo records I've played. However, I don't have a lot of stereo records in the jukebox to begin with. I have a few classic Beatles and Doobie Brothers, but most of my records are vintage 45s from the 50s and early 60s. If I'm understanding you correctly, there's no modification that can be done to boost the gain entirely from the input of the amp? I'd rather not go with a pre-amp because I'm concerned about another device that has the potential to change the frequency response of the signal going to the amp, or possibly introduce additional noise into the amp. But if this is the best option, I have a pre-amp and I'd be willing to make a few tests. Would this also involve a Y-adapter from the tone-arm wire to the pre-amp or would you just feed one channel of the pre-amp? Ugh....I'd rather not do the pre-amp thing. :) Aaron From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 10:37:47 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 2 10:40:05 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 5250 Wurly WBox help Please Message-ID: <645264.78487.qm@web111316.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, If anyone is familar with the Wulitzer 5250 wall box, could you contact me off list--Please ?? TIA, Ron Rich ronnnrich@yahoo.com From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 2 11:00:28 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:03:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Message-ID: <20090202.140028.8926.0@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> Aaron: I'm going to try to keep this description from becoming too techy and long-winded for the list. Let's communicate off-list if you want to pursue this further. I'm not aware of any way you can increase the gain of your AMI amp without having to add stages to it. I'm assuming that you would not want to modify the chassis to have an extra vacuum tube on it. What I am suggesting is that you add a self powered, self contained phono preamp module made by Radio Design Labs, that will be external to the AMI amp. The preamp physical size is a black plastic brick measuring approx. 1.5" x 1" x .75"H. The 24V power supply to run the pre is a small AC "wallwart" type. Your phono cart's output is plugged into the new preamp. Preamp output is plugged into AMI amp input. Simple modifications are made to the AMI amp's first stage so that: special equalization/loading circuit for mag phono cartridge becomes neutral so that no tonal changes are added. EQ /loading circuit needed for your NP/AC cart. is onboard the new preamp module. Audioi response will become too bassy-sounding if the 2 EQ circuits are cascaded into each other. The audio fidelity of the system remains the same. A gain pad is introduced so that the preamp's output will not overload the first amp stage of the AMI amp when playing louder recordings. The gain throughout the signal chain stays close enough to the original design so that stronger signals from the preamplified cartridge will not "freak out" the AVC functions in your AMI amp. This will basically allow you to operate the amp with the volume, bass and treb settings as they were when you were using the "hot" signal from the variable reluctance cartridge. If for some reason you decided to revert back to the original circuits throughout there will be a minimum of change. There are not major modifications to your amp. 5 solder sonnections and 3 resistors will need to be changed. I'm recommending this specific preamp as opposed to a generic mag phono preamp because the RDL unit is quieter, and it's gain can be controlled. THe RDL pre and power supply will probably cost you $100. My goal doing this is to achieve the best sound quality, minimal record wear (the records are a disappearing resource) with minimal electronic modification of the original electronics. There is some extreme left-to-right panning in 80's recordings by Duran Duran and Michael Jackson, to name a few. Some of my customers are spinning records from this era. These will sound OK in mono if the cartridge elements are wired in parallel. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Need Medical Insurance? Click here for affordable quotes. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9KxqqhM0KoPOOBOb03dUdg2LUjRFEEI7FCcfJBuN3UEBwDc/ From pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk Mon Feb 2 11:07:20 2009 From: pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk (Nigel Pugh) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:08:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <20090202.121039.29387.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090202.121039.29387.0@webmail22.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <000901c98569$79433e00$6bc9ba00$@force9.co.uk> Is there any chance your amp is not quite up to par? Or had different component values substituted on its rebuild ? The reason I say this is, my friend & I have Ami I's and run M44's, and the sound will quite literally blow the roof off. I have never ever had it on full volume. I cannot really go above about 1/4 volume. The F/G have the same amp I think. I have fitted M44s on probably 100s of Amis of this age and only had volume issues when the problem is with the amp / speakers or incorrect wiring (either cartridge or speaker to crossover etcc), or just incorrect amp refurbishment, component degradation etc.. Stanton (RS500s) I found had slightly less punch than the M44, but your NP/AC is the highest output modern cartridge at 10mv so maybe the problem is elsewhere. All these amps do have their own personalities and what sounds good in one may sound poor in another. My JBM Tropicana however will only blow the roof off with its original Shure N77. The M44 is significantly quieter in it. Same situation as yourself I suspect. The stereo VRII in the Continental 2's may be worth a try for you. I tried a preamp in front of the preamp and it sounded rubbish. However that was my fault as was RIAA compensating on both preamps which screwed the sound right up. One day I will reverse RIAA the external preamp and try it again. Regards Nigel, UK -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of James Alexander Sent: 02 February 2009 17:11 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Hello Aaron: I remember chatting with you about this. At the time, I was a little surprised that you decided to stay with the original GE pickup. Other tech advantages that you should gain with the use of a Pickering NP/AC stereo pickup is that you should be able to use less tracking pressure (about 5 grams is ideal) and that you will be able to play both old and new (stereo) records without undue wear. The GE cartridge operates on the principle of variable reluctance. You will see that the stylus needs to be positioned between the pole pieces of a magnet. As magnetic cartridges go, this type of pickup has a high output. Most modern mag. cartridges use either a moving coil or a moving magnet principle. These devices produce less output, requiring a higher setting on your amplifier's volume control. The Shure M44 cartridge is the same operation as the NP/AC (moving magnet) and will give you about the same output level. Converting to the M44 will not net you any volume improvement. With either stereo cartridge, you should tie the left and right outputs (Y connect) together, into the input of your mono amplifier. You can get slightly more output if you connected the 2 cartridge outputs in series with each other, but you will hear more tracing distortion in the records. (you'll lose that pristine sound quality you and your wife just discovered) If you are playing certain stereo records, where the audio is mixed to the extreme right or left channels, the balance of one recorded channel will be noticeably lower in your mono amp. What can you do to bring up the gain of the system? A couple of choices-- You could install a small outboard solid state preamp, that will drive a "hotter" signal into the AMI amp. This will require minor mods to the first stage of your AMI amp. (change 3 resistors) The preamp is an off-the shelf item that will need to mount next to the jukebox amp. I'll help you through this setup if you want to go this route. The second choice would be to change cartridges again. GE, in the 60's did make a stereo version of the VR-II cartridge called a VR-227. This was a high-output stereo variable-reluctance cartridge, that had the physical size and look of the old VR cartridge. The drawback to doing this is that VR-227's are in short supply now and it'll be hard to find one. Most of the jukebox needle guys seem to have replacement stylii for the 227 cartridge though. You would not need to make any mods to your amp if you put in this older stereo cartridge model. If it were me, I'd go the first route. It'll give the best possible tech performance, to match the quality of the restoration job you did. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Power up with a cell phone booster and never worry about weak signals again. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAGXfoQwQ4rxAI2rgMU3So7w WhQuTE8nauBDTG9KAeeKN8n0/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Mon Feb 2 11:28:58 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:30:18 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <200902020850951.SM00532@[192.168.1.206]> References: <200902020850951.SM00532@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <4987497A.5090403@west.net> Aaron Heverin wrote: > So here's the dilemma. I was really surprised by the difference in the sound quality coming out of my G-120. Even my wife, who can't normally tell the difference between something that sounds good and something that sounds amazing, noticed that the clarity of the sound coming out was much better than ever before. Obviously, stereo records sound fantastic, but even some of my originals like "Mr. Lee" (Bobettes), and "Honey Hush" (Joe Turner) sound incredible. Needless to say that I think I'm going to make this a permanent conversion on the tone-arm for the G. One thing I did notice is that in order to get any loud volume...and by that I mean loud enough to hear the jukebox in the living room (which is in the front of the house) all the way from the family room (which is in the back of the house)... I have to run the R-145 amp at FULL volume. Nothing is distorting...there's no hum coming from the amp. Everything is fine. It's just that when I rebuilt this amp 4 years ago, som ething seemed to happen with the input. The VR-II cartridge seems to punch a little more into the amp, but the NP/AC doesn't have the drive into the amp to really shake the walls. I also tried an Astatic cart and a Shure. Same results. Sounded great...just not very loud. > > Rebuilding the R-145 is a snap....modifying it is a different story. Do any of the amp experts on the list know where I would make the modifications to allow a little more input into the amp? Logic tells me that it's a resistance value that's stepping down the amount of input needed to drive the amp....but I'm not an expert in making a modification like this and I don't want to blow anything out. But believe me...I'm sold! If you think that the F-G series was the most incredible sounding jukebox ever made... put a newer magnetic cart in the thing THEN listen! Wow! Try a 12AX7 in place of the 12AU7 in either V2 or V3. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Mon Feb 2 11:19:14 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:32:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <200902021303461.SM02412@[192.168.1.206]> References: <200902021303461.SM02412@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: Hi Aaron, I've been reading your thread here about the problems you've had with low volume on your AMI. I've got a Seeburg G in which I had the same problem: good quality sound, but kind of low. (the amp had been fully re-capped, and several resistors changed by a very experienced amp rebuilder). What I did was install a 10 band equalizer between the cartridge and the phono input. This gave the added benefit of being able to customize the sound a lot more (instead of just having "Bass and treble"... I set those at "Flat"). The equalizer gives a 10 or 12db boost which was just enough to make the box nice and loud, but with good clear sound. I used high quality RCA cords, so no additional hum was introduced. I'm sure there are some on this list, that may consider this an improper way to go, because it's not original. All I can say is that it worked for me, and I'm very, very pleased with the results (just amazing sound!). I've tried this with both a DS conversion ceramic cartridge, and a Pickering 345 magnetic. The one caution I'd give is that you can overboost some frequencies too much. For instance if you had the bass control set on full, and then boosted it again with the equalizer, you'd find it would overload the amp and speaker (with resulting distorion). Just use common sense. Give it a try, if you can borrow a friend's equalizer, it may work well for you too. Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Heverin Sent: 2009, February, 02 1:03 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Hi Jim. Thanks for the input. I remember when we had this conversation when we were discussing the cartridge on my Rock-Ola Tempo 1. However, that is a much easier thing to deal with since the amp in the Tempo is a stereo amp. Not so in the G-120. The R-145 is a pretty incredible amp for its size, and I've always had buckets of volume come out of it. It just struck me odd that when I rebuilt it 4 years ago, the sound quality was amazing, but I just didn't have the same insane amounts of volume coming out of it. I pulled it out over the weekend and double checked all my components... all were fine. I really didn't complain about the lack of punch until I put the NP/AC into the mix. I did indeed bridge the L/R pins together and the ground pins together as is the usual practice. So far, I haven't noticed any distortion or annoying characteristics from some of the stereo records I've played. However, I don't have a lot of stereo records in the jukebox to begin with. I have a few classic Beatles and Doobie Brothers, but most of my records are vintage 45s from the 50s and early 60s. If I'm understanding you correctly, there's no modification that can be done to boost the gain entirely from the input of the amp? I'd rather not go with a pre-amp because I'm concerned about another device that has the potential to change the frequency response of the signal going to the amp, or possibly introduce additional noise into the amp. But if this is the best option, I have a pre-amp and I'd be willing to make a few tests. Would this also involve a Y-adapter from the tone-arm wire to the pre-amp or would you just feed one channel of the pre-amp? Ugh....I'd rather not do the pre-amp thing. :) Aaron _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From david_breneman at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 12:27:04 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Mon Feb 2 12:28:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <000901c98569$79433e00$6bc9ba00$@force9.co.uk> Message-ID: <117156.37522.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Nigel Pugh wrote: > Is there any chance your amp is not quite up to par? Or had > different > component values substituted on its rebuild ? The reason I > say this is, my > friend & I have Ami I's and run M44's, and the > sound will quite literally blow the roof off. This mirrors my experience. My G-200 has plenty of power with an M44 - in fact, I never run it at full volume, even when it's outside. Half volume, with the machine in the open garage over 100' away, is plenty loud when gathering in the front yard. I did notice that my amp seemed to have lost a little "punch" after being rebuild a few months ago, but I chalked that up to "The Phat T{}{}B Sound" that sounds so great even (or especially) when distorting. The cartridge I have fits perfectly on the tone arm posts. I've had it for probably 25 years, and I believe it was a version of the M44 intended for jukebox use. I don't even remember where I got it. Might have been J-J. From dvb at bowater.org.uk Mon Feb 2 12:35:59 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Mon Feb 2 12:37:13 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <601298668B544C40BFCD4413E1109B2B@Lyn> Message-ID: <91B18CE8DBEB45A5B6B3532C998F2034@Lyn> Hello everyone Many thanks for your warm welcome. Also many thanks for the info and help so far Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of david Sent: 31 January 2009 00:42 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie Hello everyone Not sure what the protocol is but I thought I would introduce myself having just joined. I am David from Derby in the UK and am the proud owner of a Rock-Ola 448. My Juke is in full working order, but displays some foibles which I have put down to poor maintenance. I intend to restore this juke to a working condition but not brand new, as I believe that "old" items should be restored sympathetically and not overdone. I understand that in the Jukebox world that this is not normal, am I right? I have created a website to cover the restoration at www.bowater.org.uk/jukebox Please let me have your web addresses and I will add to my links page. This is my first Juke restoration so if I am not doing it right then please let me know, we all have to start somewhere. So far all the family have loved being able to choose their own music, so I know I have made the right choice to go along with my normal hifi. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Mon Feb 2 12:38:57 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Mon Feb 2 12:40:07 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <001e01c98394$e3f60740$abe215c0$@force9.co.uk> Message-ID: <3DA566D313694FA39664DD5618CDD0D7@Lyn> Many thanks Nigel. Seems that I am fortunate in that my machine appears to be complete with all the original glass. But as you say it is flaking so that will be a question I will ask in due course on the best way to restore. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Pugh Sent: 31 January 2009 11:13 To: 'Jukebox mailing list' Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie Hi David, I am in Walsall in the UK, and post often on this group. If you need any assistance don't hesitate to ask. I have repaired/restored jukeboxes since the 1980s. The 448 is a nice looking machine. Not sure what condition yours is in but the general problems with these are flaky glasses, and missing/replaced top glasses each side of the button assembly. I think how a machine is restored depends on what you want yourself, what your budget is, and how much the machine is likely to be worth. In the current climate and with current jukebox prices, I would hesitate from spending ?100s on getting your machine re-chromed etc... as that age of machine its cost prohibitive. I restored a Seeburg Sunstar in the mid 90s, it cost me about ?1500 to buy and restore. Its beautiful, and would once easily command more than that when sold, but not now, probably half that. I have a W2100 which is show restored, but I'm paranoid about it and people touching it. But I have a nice useable Rock Ola 470 in original condition, and love people to come round and use it. So my point is, do whatever makes you happy with your machine. I love all jukeboxes but am not interested really in the ones where people do their own 'thing' with them, as the original manufacturers look is always well designed, and people removing glasses on a 1980s machine to make it a visible mech etc... does not really work with me. Look on Ebay at some stuff and you will see what I mean. But again, it?s the owners preference. As others have mentioned, make sure the mech is stripped and cleaned / lubricated, do the motors also. It?s a bullet proof mech in those 448 machines and will live on forever if its running well, and you will have confidence when friends are round that it isn?t going to play up. Anyway you know where I am if you need me, Best regards Nigel -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of david Sent: 31 January 2009 00:42 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie Hello everyone Not sure what the protocol is but I thought I would introduce myself having just joined. I am David from Derby in the UK and am the proud owner of a Rock-Ola 448. My Juke is in full working order, but displays some foibles which I have put down to poor maintenance. I intend to restore this juke to a working condition but not brand new, as I believe that "old" items should be restored sympathetically and not overdone. I understand that in the Jukebox world that this is not normal, am I right? I have created a website to cover the restoration at www.bowater.org.uk/jukebox Please let me have your web addresses and I will add to my links page. This is my first Juke restoration so if I am not doing it right then please let me know, we all have to start somewhere. So far all the family have loved being able to choose their own music, so I know I have made the right choice to go along with my normal hifi. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Mon Feb 2 12:43:55 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Mon Feb 2 12:45:15 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <20090202091916.6A4FC78061@blade107.lb.inty.net> Message-ID: <83C573D7FBF74BFE8F38C1D623FBC680@Lyn> Hi Dave Many thanks that's a great help. I have already checked the alignment of the gripper assembly and records are removed and replaced without scuffing either side, but I will check the record edges a little closer. I have noticed that all the gears have a little dried grease on them or nearby, I wonder what lubrication should be done. I was going to oil all bearings but grease all cog teeth. Is this correct? Useful info on the turntable motor will check this week Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of dave.halford@telent.com Sent: 02 February 2009 09:19 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie Hi David I'm down in south B'ham with a 443, just had a look at your site and.... Oil the gripper mech every time you use it till it behaves it's self otherwise you will have to dismantle. People seem to like greasing the gripper probably due to the cogs, mine was caked in dried grease. If the turntable underside edge and the idler wheel is grease/oil free then the wow is likely to be the motor running dry, there is a small pipe for oiling the motor bottom bearing, the top one is easy to get to. The steel band that stops the records falling out of the basket does not damage the record edges, the gripper however just might ! Check the records for curving rub marks, if the gripper is missaligned it will scrub the record past the white plastic buffers on the basket as well as chip the edges; not sure if yours has this adjustment. You can check it with the scan switch, the method is in the manual. regards Dave H "david" Sent by: To: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n cc: etlojix.com Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie 31/01/2009 00:41 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Hello everyone Not sure what the protocol is but I thought I would introduce myself having just joined. I am David from Derby in the UK and am the proud owner of a Rock-Ola 448. My Juke is in full working order, but displays some foibles which I have put down to poor maintenance. I intend to restore this juke to a working condition but not brand new, as I believe that "old" items should be restored sympathetically and not overdone. I understand that in the Jukebox world that this is not normal, am I right? I have created a website to cover the restoration at www.bowater.org.uk/jukebox Please let me have your web addresses and I will add to my links page. This is my first Juke restoration so if I am not doing it right then please let me know, we all have to start somewhere. So far all the family have loved being able to choose their own music, so I know I have made the right choice to go along with my normal hifi. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. 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Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 12:59:31 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Mon Feb 2 13:00:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f 120m amp rebuild Message-ID: Hi, I am finishing an overhaul on an ami f-120. All that is left is the amp rebuild. The amp is working, but it has one frozen control and some of the wiring is cracked (a bit of a scarey movie) I want to have the amp rebuilt for safety and quality of sound. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source for a quality rebuild. Additionally, I am searching for a part for my f-120. It is the light cover at the very top of the machine that says AMI music, any ideas? Thanks Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009 From aaron at vertasource.com Mon Feb 2 13:22:45 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Mon Feb 2 13:19:12 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Message-ID: <200902021622502.SM01964@[192.168.1.206]> Thanks for the replies, gents. Couple of points I'd like to make: My original VR-II cart was loud and sounded great. I just noticed that after I rebuilt them amp and put all new tubes in it, it just didn't seem as loud. Quality-wise it was amazing. I just noticed that I had to turn the volume pot a few turns more than I normally would in order to blow the speaker out of the cabinet. When the NP/AC or any of my other test carts were in, I had to turn up the volume even more. I've never once had to run the the amp at full volume in order to get it loud. This is why I was wondering about any components on the input that would be causing limiting. Even though a new resistor SAYS it's a particular value by its color code...that doesn't mean that it's the correct value when read out or actually put into a circuit. I just don't feel like desolding anything to make sure that the values are spot on. I've actually played with the pre-amp combination before. In my extreme experimentation days, I tried a pre-amp in line with a resistor box in order to feed an external turntable into an R-145 amp. Because the RIAA curve coming out of the pre-amp mixed with the EQ curve in the amp, the sound that came out sounded like the worst kind of garbage you can imagine. Just horrible. That pretty much killed the experiment and I forgot about ever trying to run a pre-amp again. Jay, I'm curious as to your suggestion to swap out the 12AX7 for the 12AU7. What's the technical reason behind that just so I understand where you're coming from? Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Nigel Pugh pughn@npsyssoft.force9.co.uk Sent 2/2/2009 2:07:20 PM To: 'Jukebox mailing list' jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Is there any chance your amp is not quite up to par? Or had different component values substituted on its rebuild ? The reason I say this is, my friend & I have Ami I's and run M44's, and the sound will quite literally blow the roof off. I have never ever had it on full volume. I cannot really go above about 1/4 volume. The F/G have the same amp I think. I have fitted M44s on probably 100s of Amis of this age and only had volume issues when the problem is with the amp / speakers or incorrect wiring (either cartridge or speaker to crossover etcc), or just incorrect amp refurbishment, component degradation etc.. Stanton (RS500s) I found had slightly less punch than the M44, but your NP/AC is the highest output modern cartridge at 10mv so maybe the problem is elsewhere. All these amps do have their own personalities and what sounds good in one may sound poor in another. My JBM Tropicana however will only blow the roof off with its original Shure N77. The M44 is significantly quieter in it. Same situation as yourself I suspect. The stereo VRII in the Continental 2's may be worth a try for you. I tried a preamp in front of the preamp and it sounded rubbish. However that was my fault as was RIAA compensating on both preamps which screwed the sound right up. One day I will reverse RIAA the external preamp and try it again. Regards Nigel, UK -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of James Alexander Sent: 02 February 2009 17:11 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Hello Aaron: I remember chatting with you about this. At the time, I was a little surprised that you decided to stay with the original GE pickup. Other tech advantages that you should gain with the use of a Pickering NP/AC stereo pickup is that you should be able to use less tracking pressure (about 5 grams is ideal) and that you will be able to play both old and new (stereo) records without undue wear. The GE cartridge operates on the principle of variable reluctance. You will see that the stylus needs to be positioned between the pole pieces of a magnet. As magnetic cartridges go, this type of pickup has a high output. Most modern mag. cartridges use either a moving coil or a moving magnet principle. These devices produce less output, requiring a higher setting on your amplifier's volume control. The Shure M44 cartridge is the same operation as the NP/AC (moving magnet) and will give you about the same output level. Converting to the M44 will not net you any volume improvement. With either stereo cartridge, you should tie the left and right outputs (Y connect) together, into the input of your mono amplifier. You can get slightly more output if you connected the 2 cartridge outputs in series with each other, but you will hear more tracing distortion in the records. (you'll lose that pristine sound quality you and your wife just discovered) If you are playing certain stereo records, where the audio is mixed to the extreme right or left channels, the balance of one recorded channel will be noticeably lower in your mono amp. What can you do to bring up the gain of the system? A couple of choices-- You could install a small outboard solid state preamp, that will drive a "hotter" signal into the AMI amp. This will require minor mods to the first stage of your AMI amp. (change 3 resistors) The preamp is an off-the shelf item that will need to mount next to the jukebox amp. I'll help you through this setup if you want to go this route. The second choice would be to change cartridges again. GE, in the 60's did make a stereo version of the VR-II cartridge called a VR-227. This was a high-output stereo variable-reluctance cartridge, that had the physical size and look of the old VR cartridge. The drawback to doing this is that VR-227's are in short supply now and it'll be hard to find one. Most of the jukebox needle guys seem to have replacement stylii for the 227 cartridge though. You would not need to make any mods to your amp if you put in this older stereo cartridge model. If it were me, I'd go the first route. It'll give the best possible tech performance, to match the quality of the restoration job you did. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Power up with a cell phone booster and never worry about weak signals again. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAGXfoQwQ4rxAI2rgMU3So7w WhQuTE8nauBDTG9KAeeKN8n0/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Mon Feb 2 13:35:57 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Mon Feb 2 13:37:07 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <200902021622502.SM01964@[192.168.1.206]> References: <200902021622502.SM01964@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <4987673D.5050503@west.net> Aaron Heverin wrote: > Jay, I'm curious as to your suggestion to swap out the 12AX7 for the 12AU7. What's the technical reason behind that just so I understand where you're coming from? A 12AX7 has a gain of 100, and a 12AU7 has a gain of roughly 20. A compromise would be a 12AT7, with a gain of about 60. As there's minimal negative feedback in these stages (a loop from the speaker on V3), a higher gain tube should give you more output for the same input signal. Note that each tube has two stages. The first stage of V2 is a cathode follower so the tube gain won't make much difference there. The boost in the second stage should do the trick. That's what I would try first. V3 has feedback to the first stage and a phase splitter on the second stage, so I'd start with V2 first as it has one conventional amplifier stage and you probably don't need a lot of boost. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From steve.dumouchel at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 2 15:43:02 2009 From: steve.dumouchel at sympatico.ca (Steve Dumouchel) Date: Mon Feb 2 15:51:00 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) Message-ID: Hello all, hope someone can help me. I've an NSM Performer Grand and am experiencing a reseting or re-booting problem and I suspect the cd controll board since I've pretty much eliminated everything else. The only two connections left plugged in are power and keyboard/display and the symptom persists. The other problem I have, ( and created), is that I've inadvertently removed two electrolytics, assuming they were both the same, (10v @ 100uf), and of coarse, one was a 100uf @ 10v and the other was a 10uf @ 63v... don't ask...might have been a little sleepy at the time of extraction. The two caps in question are C16 and C17 on the cd control board, the one mounted over the tone controls, Can someone pleeease i.d. either one of the caps for me, thanks. Cheers, Steve From aaron at vertasource.com Mon Feb 2 17:23:10 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Mon Feb 2 17:19:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Message-ID: <20090202202374.SM01064@[192.168.1.206]> Do you think it's possible for a perfect thing to get better????? Again, the best sounding jukebox ever made...PERIOD...is the AMI F and/or G series jukebox. Don't believe me? Well then get yourself a Pickering NP/AC or a Shure M44 cartridge, mount it in your tonearm shell so that it sits IN the shell and not attached to the mounting posts (more on this later), adjust the tonearm tracking and set down screws, swap out the 12AU7 tube that's in the metal case (I think that's V2) with a 12AX7 (THANKS JAY!!!!!), put on some really thumping 80s tunes (like "Holiday" by Madonna - "Somebody's Watching Me" by Rockwell - "The Bird" by The Time - or "Bette Davis Eyes" by Kim Carnes) then get ready to leave the room the jukebox is in because you will NOT be able to stay in the same room with it! Oh...hardwood floors are a good thing too. Keep in mind....1954-1955 technology....a 25 watt tube amp...and an entire cabinet that acts like a sub-woofer. I just can't describe what it sounds like. Mind blowing...ear popping sound. For MONO!!! The bass is unbelievable!!! So I apologize to anyone I offended with my purist comments about never swapping out the GE VR-II with a newer cartridge. It was the voice of ignorance. Sorry Joey! I know I said something to you about it...tried to talk you out of it. :) So now the NEXT project is to try and take my F-120 and my G-120 and run them both off a pre-amp/dual amp configuration so I can use both jukes' amps and speakers on at the same time while one or the other is playing! My neighbors will hate me. So thanks to everyone who responded to this thread. You guys are great! Aaron From dave.halford at telent.com Tue Feb 3 01:18:53 2009 From: dave.halford at telent.com (dave.halford@telent.com) Date: Tue Feb 3 01:20:14 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <83C573D7FBF74BFE8F38C1D623FBC680@Lyn> Message-ID: <20090203091856.B2682780AB@blade107.lb.inty.net> david Thats exactly what I did, mine had a lot of dried and hard Calcium grease on the gears and plunger casing; I replaced it on the gears (sparingly) with high temp car wheel bearing grease. The plunger gets 10-40 semi synthetic engine oil every 6 months and has run faultlessly for the last 3 years. I bought it with miss matched replacement top speakers, which I replaced with a pair of proper 16Ohm speakers regards Dave H "david" Sent by: To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n cc: etlojix.com Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie 02/02/2009 20:43 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Hi Dave Many thanks that's a great help. I have already checked the alignment of the gripper assembly and records are removed and replaced without scuffing either side, but I will check the record edges a little closer. I have noticed that all the gears have a little dried grease on them or nearby, I wonder what lubrication should be done. I was going to oil all bearings but grease all cog teeth. Is this correct? Useful info on the turntable motor will check this week Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of dave.halford@telent.com Sent: 02 February 2009 09:19 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie Hi David I'm down in south B'ham with a 443, just had a look at your site and.... Oil the gripper mech every time you use it till it behaves it's self otherwise you will have to dismantle. People seem to like greasing the gripper probably due to the cogs, mine was caked in dried grease. If the turntable underside edge and the idler wheel is grease/oil free then the wow is likely to be the motor running dry, there is a small pipe for oiling the motor bottom bearing, the top one is easy to get to. The steel band that stops the records falling out of the basket does not damage the record edges, the gripper however just might ! Check the records for curving rub marks, if the gripper is missaligned it will scrub the record past the white plastic buffers on the basket as well as chip the edges; not sure if yours has this adjustment. You can check it with the scan switch, the method is in the manual. regards Dave H "david" Sent by: To: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n cc: etlojix.com Subject: [jukebox-list] Hello from a newbie 31/01/2009 00:41 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Hello everyone Not sure what the protocol is but I thought I would introduce myself having just joined. I am David from Derby in the UK and am the proud owner of a Rock-Ola 448. My Juke is in full working order, but displays some foibles which I have put down to poor maintenance. I intend to restore this juke to a working condition but not brand new, as I believe that "old" items should be restored sympathetically and not overdone. I understand that in the Jukebox world that this is not normal, am I right? I have created a website to cover the restoration at www.bowater.org.uk/jukebox Please let me have your web addresses and I will add to my links page. This is my first Juke restoration so if I am not doing it right then please let me know, we all have to start somewhere. So far all the family have loved being able to choose their own music, so I know I have made the right choice to go along with my normal hifi. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net From steve.dumouchel at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 3 02:59:50 2009 From: steve.dumouchel at sympatico.ca (steve) Date: Tue Feb 3 03:08:36 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NSM Help Please.. (formerly 'no subject' oops..) Message-ID: Hello all, hope someone can help me. I've an NSM Performer Grand and am experiencing a reseting or re-booting problem and I suspect the cd controll board since I've pretty much eliminated everything else. The only two connections left plugged in are power and keyboard/display and the symptom persists. The other problem I have, ( and created), is that I've inadvertently removed two electrolytics, assuming they were both the same, (10v @ 100uf), and of coarse, one was a 100uf @ 10v and the other was a 10uf @ 63v... don't ask...might have been a little sleepy at the time of extraction. The two caps in question are C16 and C17 on the cd control board, the one mounted over the tone controls, Can someone pleeease i.d. either one of the caps for me, thanks. Cheers, Steve From nmacrae23 at btinternet.com Tue Feb 3 03:42:43 2009 From: nmacrae23 at btinternet.com (NORMAN MACRAE) Date: Tue Feb 3 03:43:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke References: <20090202202374.SM01064@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <24757.83051.qm@web86710.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Thanks for the feedback, Aaron.? I had filed Jay's suggestion away in my top tips folder to try at some point. Of course,?that AMI is?going to sound good.? The whole cabinet is a folded horn?which?is very efficient with a?great frequency range. And in no way kid yourself?that because that machine is mid 50s, it's lacking somehow - these guys knew what they were doing. And a very big thanks Jay, that really was an excellent suggestion (and yet so simple!)?- I think you should award yourself a gold star for that! Norman. ? ________________________________ From: Aaron Heverin To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009 1:23:10 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Do you think it's possible for a perfect thing to get better????? Again, the best sounding jukebox ever made...PERIOD...is the AMI F and/or G series jukebox. Don't believe me? Well then get yourself a Pickering NP/AC or a Shure M44 cartridge, mount it in your tonearm shell so that it sits IN the shell and not attached to the mounting posts (more on this later), adjust the tonearm tracking and set down screws, swap out the 12AU7 tube that's in the metal case (I think that's V2) with a 12AX7 (THANKS JAY!!!!!), put on some really thumping 80s tunes (like "Holiday" by Madonna - "Somebody's Watching Me" by Rockwell - "The Bird" by The Time - or "Bette Davis Eyes" by Kim Carnes) then get ready to leave the room the jukebox is in because you will NOT be able to stay in the same room with it! Oh...hardwood floors are a good thing too. Keep in mind....1954-1955? technology....a 25 watt tube amp...and an entire cabinet that acts like a sub-woofer. I just can't describe what it sounds like. Mind blowing...ear popping sound. For MONO!!! The bass is unbelievable!!! So I apologize to anyone I offended with my purist comments about never swapping out the GE VR-II with a newer cartridge. It was the voice of ignorance. Sorry Joey! I know I said something to you about it...tried to talk you out of it. :) So now the NEXT project is to try and take my F-120 and my G-120 and run them both off a pre-amp/dual amp configuration so I can use both jukes' amps and speakers on at the same time while one or the other is playing! My neighbors will hate me. So thanks to everyone who responded to this thread. You guys are great! Aaron From aaron at vertasource.com Tue Feb 3 08:18:15 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Tue Feb 3 08:14:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] EQ in a jukebox - WAS: Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Message-ID: <200902031118287.SM03488@[192.168.1.206]> Mike, I often considered installing an EQ in some of my jukes just to play with the sound...especially in my G-120. I'm curious as to what make of EQ you used and what kind of inputs and outputs it has on it. I would imagine it has to have some kind of phono input on it for a magnetic cartridge...but what kind output does it have to drive the Seeburg's amp. A pre-amp out, perhaps? That's so cool if I guessed right. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Dicecco, Michael michael.dicecco@rbc.com Sent 2/2/2009 2:19:14 PM To: Jukebox mailing list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Hi Aaron, I've been reading your thread here about the problems you've had with low volume on your AMI. I've got a Seeburg G in which I had the same problem: good quality sound, but kind of low. (the amp had been fully re-capped, and several resistors changed by a very experienced amp rebuilder). What I did was install a 10 band equalizer between the cartridge and the phono input. This gave the added benefit of being able to customize the sound a lot more (instead of just having "Bass and treble"... I set those at "Flat"). The equalizer gives a 10 or 12db boost which was just enough to make the box nice and loud, but with good clear sound. I used high quality RCA cords, so no additional hum was introduced. I'm sure there are some on this list, that may consider this an improper way to go, because it's not original. All I can say is that it worked for me, and I'm very, very pleased with the results (just amazing sound!). I've tried this with both a DS conversion ceramic cartridge, and a Pickering 345 magnetic. The one caution I'd give is that you can overboost some frequencies too much. For instance if you had the bass control set on full, and then boosted it again with the equalizer, you'd find it would overload the amp and speaker (with resulting distorion). Just use common sense. Give it a try, if you can borrow a friend's equalizer, it may work well for you too. Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Heverin Sent: 2009, February, 02 1:03 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Hi Jim. Thanks for the input. I remember when we had this conversation when we were discussing the cartridge on my Rock-Ola Tempo 1. However, that is a much easier thing to deal with since the amp in the Tempo is a stereo amp. Not so in the G-120. The R-145 is a pretty incredible amp for its size, and I've always had buckets of volume come out of it. It just struck me odd that when I rebuilt it 4 years ago, the sound quality was amazing, but I just didn't have the same insane amounts of volume coming out of it. I pulled it out over the weekend and double checked all my components... all were fine. I really didn't complain about the lack of punch until I put the NP/AC into the mix. I did indeed bridge the L/R pins together and the ground pins together as is the usual practice. So far, I haven't noticed any distortion or annoying characteristics from some of the stereo records I've played. However, I don't have a lot of stereo records in the jukebox to begin with. I have a few classic Beatles and Doobie Brothers, but most of my records are vintage 45s from the 50s and early 60s. If I'm understanding you correctly, there's no modification that can be done to boost the gain entirely from the input of the amp? I'd rather not go with a pre-amp because I'm concerned about another device that has the potential to change the frequency response of the signal going to the amp, or possibly introduce additional noise into the amp. But if this is the best option, I have a pre-amp and I'd be willing to make a few tests. Would this also involve a Y-adapter from the tone-arm wire to the pre-amp or would you just feed one channel of the pre-amp? Ugh....I'd rather not do the pre-amp thing. :) Aaron _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it conta ins by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier lectronique est confidentiel et protg. L'expditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements q u'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) dsign (s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser immdiatement, par retour de courrier lectronique ou par un autre moy en. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From david_breneman at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 08:58:22 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Tue Feb 3 08:59:35 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <20090202202374.SM01064@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <906819.16628.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Aaron Heverin wrote: > Again, the best sounding jukebox ever made...PERIOD...is > the AMI F and/or G series jukebox. Yer preachin' tada choir here... :-) > swap out the 12AU7 tube that's in the metal case > (I think that's V2) with a 12AX7 (THANKS JAY!!!!!), This is interesting. I just went out and checked my G-200 and the chassis position of tube in the shield is *marked* 12AX7 on my amp. Could this have been a change made to the amp during the production run of the G series? Or something specific to the G-200? The manual reprint I have doesn't mention it. > put on some really thumping 80s tunes I've mentioned this before, but Pink Floyd's "Have a Cigar" / "Wish You were Here" (mine is a Capitol pressing from the 90s marked "For Jukeboxes Only") sounds awesome on this machine. The part in "Wish You were Here" where the guitar solo changes from on the "radio" to "live" is especially striking. > So now the NEXT project is to try and take my F-120 and my > G-120 and run them both off a pre-amp/dual amp configuration > so I can use both jukes' amps and speakers on at the > same time while one or the other is playing! Are you going to wire them as "left jukebox" and "right jukebox" for stereo? :-) From jalexandercc at netzero.net Tue Feb 3 10:02:48 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:05:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Message-ID: <20090203.130248.25378.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: This has been an interesting discussion. I'm pretty busy and stay away from my desktop PC for days at a time. I usually return emails every 2 days. About magnetic cartridges for jukeboxes: The Stanton 500, Stanton RS500, and Pickering NP/AC are electrically the same phono cartridge. The Stanton company bought out Pickering several years ago. They are marketed under several model numbers for sales purposes. The cosmetics of the 500 models are different than NP/AC. In an emergency, the Pickering and Stanton stylii can be interchanged. Both the Stanton 500 and NP/AC have been discontinued, and are replaced with the Stanton 400V3 cartridge which is electrically similar. The styling of the 400 is changed. There are probably many unsold new 500's and NP/AC's in warehouse stock, etc so that they'll continue to be available for awhile. Nigel touched on a few points here---mag. cartridges have differing output levels. The old Shure M77 cartridge of the 60's is a "hotter" output unit than the current M44 model. The old GE VR-227is a stereo version of their old VR II which were very high output variable-reluctance cartridges. I believe the old Pickering 90 cartridge, which was the basis of the first Seeburg stereo redhead cartridge (the one with the T-shaped stylii) was a v-r type unit. Most cartridge manufacturers moved onto using either moving magnet or moving coil designs afterward. When I advised Aaron to install a preamp to address his issue of increasing the AMI system gain, I mentioned the importance of disabling the cartridge loading and EQ circuits in the amp so that you are not EQ'ng the audio signal twice---it will be overly-bassy sounding if you do. I'm assuming that Aaron has properly rebuilt and tested his amp for proper operation before asking the more-gain question. Using the outrigger preamp makes minimal changes to the original AMI circuitry in the event you wish to put it back to it's original status. I've seen some pix of Aaron's restorations on this site. They appear to be thorough and detail-oriented, where nothing gets missed. A horn-loaded speaker system in the proper surrounding environment can be an awesome improvement over a typical direct-radiating speaker system. Efficiency will be 6db greater,which is the equivalent of a 100% amplifier-power increase into a conventional spkr system. The horn-loaded AMI juke cabinets will work their best in: a. placed in a room with a hard floor. There should be no carpets under the juke. b. will sound best in a larger room,where you are listening several feet away from the machine. All the audio frequencies from the low and high freq horns will converge. c. placing the juke, angled in a corner of a room will further increase the acoustical coupling of the horns to the room. I've had only a few AMI E and F models come in for repairs,where the machines were owned by others. I've never had one for a full restoration process, and I have not worked on a G model. I have used the preamp setup successfully with Wurlitzer and Seeburg models, where the customer wanted extended sound capability. RE: equalizers--- EQ circuits, can be added to juke amps to have better control of audio freqs than you can obtain with bass/treble controls. Outboard "pro sound" EQ units or EQ modules can be introduced, but they need to operate at audio line level in order not to be noisy. I've read here where someone plugged in an EQ on a phono cartr. input line---this will work,but it will add hiss/noise to your amp system--not the best solution. To accomodate an EQ a line out/ signal in (to the power amp stage)circuit needs to be created. Usually a good place to tap in is around the volume control circuit of an amp. If an EQ is installed in your sound system, the tone control switches need to be set for a "flat" response or bypassed(no boosts, no cuts) so that there not two control circuits in the signal path. In all the letters about Aaron's AMI, I notice that people are reluctant to make circuit mods to a jukebox amp. I concur with this--I only make modifications when a client is expecting enhanced sound that can't be delivered by a properly-operating juke. Every person's definition of what constitutes "good sound" is different. As a tech, you are expected to meet that threshold. The tube substitution idea suggested by Jay might give you enough extra volume to satisfy the lack-of-gain issue. Something to consider----these juke amps all use a loudness contour function that is tied to the volume control setting. You'll notice as you crank the volume up (on any program material) that the bass response of the juke will tend to thin out. As sound levels naturally increase, the ear becomes more sensitive to bass and upper-treble frequencies. The contour function "dials" in bass-teble boosts at low-volume settings to give a full sound at low levels. Adding a preamp stage to Aaron's AMI-F amp would allow operation of the amp at reduced vol ctrl settings with the lower output stereo cartridge. JIm Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Workers Compensation Legal Advice. Click here http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAZ6VfAtVhSjwVtsDTycPIewkOxqEVH4KPqJdhFuyFfEFvBc/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Tue Feb 3 10:17:07 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:19:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] WURLITZER 270 STEPPER MANUAL ????? Message-ID: <20090203.131707.25378.1@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> Hi Gino: One more time---here's where you can find service data for your W270 stepper. I put this in my first letter to you. AMR publishing is the company that has reprinted most of the jukebox service manuals. They have put together books that are collection-reprints of various wurlitzer tech bulletins. There isn't a dedicated service manual for the 270 stepper. AMR publication # R-245 covers the 5220 wall box series and steppers of that era. The AMR service manuals are distributed by Jukebox parts suppliers like Victory Glass , A-1 Nostalgia, and Always Jukin' magazine, among others. If you order from Victory Glass, their SKU number for this manual is # 23-1086. Stepper schematics are sometimes published on the control circuit diagram page in the jukebox service manual. The 270 was used with juke models 3400 thru 3800. Hope this helps, JIm Alexander ____________________________________________________________ The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZRMHou5sbNbmuWkfnyrur4QdguSMXnCIZsm3xj11tq5Cnc/ From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Tue Feb 3 10:32:31 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:36:15 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary In-Reply-To: <20090203.131707.25378.1@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090203.131707.25378.1@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Just a reminder that today is the 50th anniversary of that sad day in which the music died: Feb 3,1959 -- The plane crash that killed Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J.P. (Big Bopper) Richardson. Spin one of their records in rememberance! ____________________________________________________________ The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZRMHou5sbNbmuWkfny rur4QdguSMXnCIZsm3xj11tq5Cnc/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Tue Feb 3 10:29:05 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:44:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] EQ in a jukebox - WAS: Magnetic Cartridge in an AMIF-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <200902031118287.SM03488@[192.168.1.206]> References: <200902031118287.SM03488@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: Hi Aaron, You've certainly started a lot of interesting discussion here! I'm at work , so I can't tell you the brand of my equalizer. All I know is that it's not a high end unit. Might have been something from Radio Shack or similar. No, there is no "phono" input on the equalizer, just the usual line in RCA connections. That's part of what amazed me : that it would work so well on a low volume signal like a magnetic phono cartridge. The output is just the usual RCA line out , that I connect to the amp input. Since the equalizer is stereo, and the Seeburg G is monaural, I only use one side of the equalizer to do the job (I do not bridge the two channels). I saw that James made mention that using an equalizer would be noisy. All I can do is speak of my results, which are excellent. The box sounds so much better to me: nice deep clean bass, and sharp treble. The nice thing too is that you can adjust the sound of the bass to get rid of boominess or overtones. In short , to me it sounds much more like a higher end stereo system, than a 1953 set up. As I mentioned previously, keep the amp tone controls flat, and then play with the EQ settings. Don't overload the input, or then you will get distortion and noise. I suggest you try the hook up, by borrowing someone's equalizer. I don't know anything about AMI's, but I know it has really improved my Seeburg, and what have you got to loose? Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Heverin Sent: 2009, February, 03 11:18 AM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: [Jukebox-list] EQ in a jukebox - WAS: Magnetic Cartridge in an AMIF-G 120 Juke Mike, I often considered installing an EQ in some of my jukes just to play with the sound...especially in my G-120. I'm curious as to what make of EQ you used and what kind of inputs and outputs it has on it. I would imagine it has to have some kind of phono input on it for a magnetic cartridge...but what kind output does it have to drive the Seeburg's amp. A pre-amp out, perhaps? That's so cool if I guessed right. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Dicecco, Michael michael.dicecco@rbc.com Sent 2/2/2009 2:19:14 PM To: Jukebox mailing list jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Hi Aaron, I've been reading your thread here about the problems you've had with low volume on your AMI. I've got a Seeburg G in which I had the same problem: good quality sound, but kind of low. (the amp had been fully re-capped, and several resistors changed by a very experienced amp rebuilder). What I did was install a 10 band equalizer between the cartridge and the phono input. This gave the added benefit of being able to customize the sound a lot more (instead of just having "Bass and treble"... I set those at "Flat"). The equalizer gives a 10 or 12db boost which was just enough to make the box nice and loud, but with good clear sound. I used high quality RCA cords, so no additional hum was introduced. I'm sure there are some on this list, that may consider this an improper way to go, because it's not original. All I can say is that it worked for me, and I'm very, very pleased with the results (just amazing sound!). I've tried this with both a DS conversion ceramic cartridge, and a Pickering 345 magnetic. The one caution I'd give is that you can overboost some frequencies too much. For instance if you had the bass control set on full, and then boosted it again with the equalizer, you'd find it would overload the amp and speaker (with resulting distorion). Just use common sense. Give it a try, if you can borrow a friend's equalizer, it may work well for you too. Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Heverin Sent: 2009, February, 02 1:03 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Hi Jim. Thanks for the input. I remember when we had this conversation when we were discussing the cartridge on my Rock-Ola Tempo 1. However, that is a much easier thing to deal with since the amp in the Tempo is a stereo amp. Not so in the G-120. The R-145 is a pretty incredible amp for its size, and I've always had buckets of volume come out of it. It just struck me odd that when I rebuilt it 4 years ago, the sound quality was amazing, but I just didn't have the same insane amounts of volume coming out of it. I pulled it out over the weekend and double checked all my components... all were fine. I really didn't complain about the lack of punch until I put the NP/AC into the mix. I did indeed bridge the L/R pins together and the ground pins together as is the usual practice. So far, I haven't noticed any distortion or annoying characteristics from some of the stereo records I've played. However, I don't have a lot of stereo records in the jukebox to begin with. I have a few classic Beatles and Doobie Brothers, but most of my records are vintage 45s from the 50s and early 60s. If I'm understanding you correctly, there's no modification that can be done to boost the gain entirely from the input of the amp? I'd rather not go with a pre-amp because I'm concerned about another device that has the potential to change the frequency response of the signal going to the amp, or possibly introduce additional noise into the amp. But if this is the best option, I have a pre-amp and I'd be willing to make a few tests. Would this also involve a Y-adapter from the tone-arm wire to the pre-amp or would you just feed one channel of the pre-amp? Ugh....I'd rather not do the pre-amp thing. :) Aaron _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it conta ins by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier lectronique est confidentiel et protg. L'expditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements q u'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) dsign (s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser immdiatement, par retour de courrier lectronique ou par un autre moy en. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From tjmertz at sbcglobal.net Tue Feb 3 10:50:37 2009 From: tjmertz at sbcglobal.net (Thomas Mertz) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:51:48 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <281341.29276.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was listening to Buddy earlier, but it must have been my subconscious, because I had forgotten today was the date. I've got or good subconscious and in my house "Everyday is a Holly Day," in spirit if not reality (more like once every couple of weeks). Thomas J. Mertz Department of History Edgewood College tjmertz@sbcglobal.net Advocating on?Madison Public Schools --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Dicecco, Michael wrote: From: Dicecco, Michael Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 12:32 PM Just a reminder that today is the 50th anniversary of that sad day in which the music died: Feb 3,1959 -- The plane crash that killed Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J.P. (Big Bopper) Richardson. Spin one of their records in rememberance! ____________________________________________________________ The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZRMHou5sbNbmuWkfny rur4QdguSMXnCIZsm3xj11tq5Cnc/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From gcweakly at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 11:01:48 2009 From: gcweakly at yahoo.com (Gary Weakly) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:08:52 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe R-93 CD/45 Combo Message-ID: <728622.56835.qm@web59301.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I'm new to this forum, having just purchased my first jukebox, a Rowe R-93 CD/45.? I have a question regarding the volume. When I set the volume to a comfortable level for the 45 records and then I select a CD, the volume on the CD is too low and must be turned up. I've checked the service manual and I can't find anything about adjusting the volume on the CD to equal that of the 45's. Can anyone give me any help on what I need to do. Thanks in advance for your help. Gary From digiovanni13 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 11:18:49 2009 From: digiovanni13 at yahoo.com (S.R. Boland) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:26:38 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary Message-ID: <178984.44645.qm@web54009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here's what I posted on my band's MySpace site: ? ? 50 Years On ? That plane fell out of the sky a half-century ago.? Three of the all-time greats -- Buddy, Bopper, and Ritchie -- had their young lives snuffed out in that freezing cornfield in Iowa.? Mainstream pop music historians will tell you "that's the day the music died."? But it didn't, of course.? The music stayed... and influenced other artists, as it still does.? The few years that followed the plane crash, before the calamitous British Invasion -- 1959 to 1963 -- proved to be?some of the most creative and?expressive?in the history of rock 'n' roll, never mind what some all-knowing "critics" have written. It is our music.? American music.? It is as relevant and as moving now as it was in the winter of 1959.? Thanks, Buddy... Bopper... and Ritchie. S.R. "Boris" Boland ? --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Thomas Mertz wrote: From: Thomas Mertz Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 1:50 PM I was listening to Buddy earlier, but it must have been my subconscious, because I had forgotten today was the date. I've got or good subconscious and in my house "Everyday is a Holly Day," in spirit if not reality (more like once every couple of weeks). Thomas J. Mertz Department of History Edgewood College tjmertz@sbcglobal.net? Advocating on?Madison Public Schools --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Dicecco, Michael wrote: From: Dicecco, Michael Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 12:32 PM Just a reminder that today is the 50th anniversary of that sad day in which the music died: Feb 3,1959 -- The plane crash that killed Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J.P. (Big Bopper) Richardson. Spin one of their records in rememberance! ____________________________________________________________ The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZRMHou5sbNbmuWkfny rur4QdguSMXnCIZsm3xj11tq5Cnc/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately.? Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ginovandecauter at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 11:40:13 2009 From: ginovandecauter at gmail.com (Vande Cauter Gino) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:41:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] WURLITZER 270 STEPPER MANUAL ????? References: <20090203.131707.25378.1@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <002a01c98637$3c2ee7c0$6401a8c0@GLENN> Hi Jim , I know that you wrote that to me but I don't know what is happened or what I have done to list the earlier question again on the forum !!!! Sorry but this wasn't meant to do !!! Best regards , Gino . ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Alexander" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] WURLITZER 270 STEPPER MANUAL ????? Hi Gino: One more time---here's where you can find service data for your W270 stepper. I put this in my first letter to you. AMR publishing is the company that has reprinted most of the jukebox service manuals. They have put together books that are collection-reprints of various wurlitzer tech bulletins. There isn't a dedicated service manual for the 270 stepper. AMR publication # R-245 covers the 5220 wall box series and steppers of that era. The AMR service manuals are distributed by Jukebox parts suppliers like Victory Glass , A-1 Nostalgia, and Always Jukin' magazine, among others. If you order from Victory Glass, their SKU number for this manual is # 23-1086. Stepper schematics are sometimes published on the control circuit diagram page in the jukebox service manual. The 270 was used with juke models 3400 thru 3800. Hope this helps, JIm Alexander ____________________________________________________________ The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZRMHou5sbNbmuWkfnyrur4QdguSMXnCIZsm3xj11tq5Cnc/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From etreble7 at verizon.net Tue Feb 3 10:56:30 2009 From: etreble7 at verizon.net (etreble7) Date: Tue Feb 3 12:12:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary References: <20090203.131707.25378.1@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <8AC289234C6349FDA603A1F17F853966@home1903> Mike, I'm spinning O Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dicecco, Michael" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:32 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary Just a reminder that today is the 50th anniversary of that sad day in which the music died: Feb 3,1959 -- The plane crash that killed Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J.P. (Big Bopper) Richardson. Spin one of their records in rememberance! ____________________________________________________________ The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZRMHou5sbNbmuWkfny rur4QdguSMXnCIZsm3xj11tq5Cnc/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From gibson510 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 3 14:17:38 2009 From: gibson510 at hotmail.com (rick murray) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:18:46 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe r93 cd /45 Message-ID: That would be the difference between an analog vs digital source and also quite normal. This happens also with these "all in one units" that allow you to record CD's from your vinyl, and cassette tapes. Especially when recording vinyl, the gain (record level) has to be increased significantly to improve playback quality. You can also do that on your home computer if you make cd's to play in your juke. Regards, Rick Murray I'm new to this forum, having just purchased my first jukebox, a Rowe R-93 CD/45. I have a question regarding the volume. When I set the volume to a comfortable level for the 45 records and then I select a CD, the volume on the CD is too low and must be turned up. I've checked the service manual and I can't find anything about adjusting the volume on the CD to equal that of the 45's. Can anyone give me any help on what I need to do. Thanks in advance for your help. Gary _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 From gcweakly at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 14:30:29 2009 From: gcweakly at yahoo.com (Gary Weakly) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:38:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe r93 cd /45 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <247655.23450.qm@web59301.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Thanks for the reply, Rick.? As I said, I'm new to this so I'm just learning. Thanks again. Gary --- On Tue, 2/3/09, rick murray wrote: From: rick murray Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe r93 cd /45 To: "jukebox list" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 4:17 PM That would be the difference between an analog vs digital source and also quite normal. This happens also with these "all in one units" that allow you to record CD's from your vinyl, and cassette tapes. Especially when recording vinyl, the gain (record level) has to be increased significantly to improve playback quality. You can also do that on your home computer if you make cd's to play in your juke. Regards, Rick Murray I'm new to this forum, having just purchased my first jukebox, a Rowe R-93 CD/45. I have a question regarding the volume. When I set the volume to a comfortable level for the 45 records and then I select a CD, the volume on the CD is too low and must be turned up. I've checked the service manual and I can't find anything about adjusting the volume on the CD to equal that of the 45's. Can anyone give me any help on what I need to do. Thanks in advance for your help. Gary _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From lavin at cheqnet.net Tue Feb 3 16:38:46 2009 From: lavin at cheqnet.net (Sue and Dennis Lavin) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:39:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke References: <200902021303461.SM02412@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <819A8AB1E84A4E98A7F41F7EFF0F1D22@dennis38rxl3bv> HI- Say Aaron, a few years back I installed the same cart as you (NP/AC ) in my F80, and dont really notice any difference in output. It is sitting right next to my G80 that still has the GE cart in it and I cant really see or hear much if any difference in loudness between the 2 jukes. Both amps are the same, and they will blow your socks off if when cranked up :-) BUT, I did have a lot of trouble getting the height set correctly so it would track properly and not hit the turntable when the tone arm swings over the record. I would like to see how you solved the mounting problem on yours. Just my 2 cent's worth. Dennis (Jukeboxdenny) . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Heverin" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke Hi Jim. Thanks for the input. I remember when we had this conversation when we were discussing the cartridge on my Rock-Ola Tempo 1. However, that is a much easier thing to deal with since the amp in the Tempo is a stereo amp. Not so in the G-120. The R-145 is a pretty incredible amp for its size, and I've always had buckets of volume come out of it. It just struck me odd that when I rebuilt it 4 years ago, the sound quality was amazing, but I just didn't have the same insane amounts of volume coming out of it. I pulled it out over the weekend and double checked all my components... all were fine. I really didn't complain about the lack of punch until I put the NP/AC into the mix. I did indeed bridge the L/R pins together and the ground pins together as is the usual practice. So far, I haven't noticed any distortion or annoying characteristics from some of the stereo records I've played. However, I don't have a lot of stereo records in the jukebox to begin with. I have a few classic Beatles and Doobie Brothers, but most of my records are vintage 45s from the 50s and early 60s. If I'm understanding you correctly, there's no modification that can be done to boost the gain entirely from the input of the amp? I'd rather not go with a pre-amp because I'm concerned about another device that has the potential to change the frequency response of the signal going to the amp, or possibly introduce additional noise into the amp. But if this is the best option, I have a pre-amp and I'd be willing to make a few tests. Would this also involve a Y-adapter from the tone-arm wire to the pre-amp or would you just feed one channel of the pre-amp? Ugh....I'd rather not do the pre-amp thing. :) Aaron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From 19k20 at comcast.net Tue Feb 3 17:15:58 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:17:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 Message-ID: <001d01c98666$2351f650$69f5e2f0$@net> I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are. Thanks again. Rich From lavin at cheqnet.net Tue Feb 3 17:50:00 2009 From: lavin at cheqnet.net (Sue and Dennis Lavin) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:51:15 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke References: <200902021622502.SM01964@[192.168.1.206]> <4987673D.5050503@west.net> Message-ID: <9C563F8FC5DF46FA898D4C3F16F3E8FB@dennis38rxl3bv> HI- Let me add one more thing for you to check before you pull any of the tubes, on the F that I have , about 5 years back I hade a very, very simmillar sounding problem. I had not used the juke in a while, and fired it up one day to play it, and the sound was just as you discribe, had to crank it up all the way just to hear it. The sound was weak, but clear with out the usual "punch" these amps have. I looked for quite a while at the wiring, caps etc.. untill I finally found it by accedent. Try this, turn the juke on, then with all the lights off in the room, (dark room) look closley at all of the filiments in the 12AU7's and the 12AX7 tubes. I found that only half of one of the small tubes were lit up ! ( I think it was the 12AX7 but not positive ) All of the 12AU7 12AX7 tubes have dual filiments, (12volt)and are wired in parrellel on the sockets to the 6 volt heater string. I had a dirty pin conection in one of the tube sokets, not allowing any current to flow to both heaters in the affected tube. It fooled the He** out of me as I had tried numerous replacments, and tried them all in a tube tester with perfect test results, but crappy sound in the juke. All I did was find a very small, and I mean SMALL drill bit out of my oriface drill set , like a broach and cleaned the tube socket's out, and Wa La, It was back to life. I looked for about 6 days trying to figure out what was wrong. I even put the original GE cart back in it as I thought the pickering was at fault. Sooo take a close look at those filiment heaters.. Hope you find it !! Dennis. . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hennigan" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke > Aaron Heverin wrote: > >> Jay, I'm curious as to your suggestion to swap out the 12AX7 for the >> 12AU7. What's the technical reason behind that just so I understand where >> you're coming from? > > A 12AX7 has a gain of 100, and a 12AU7 has a gain of roughly 20. A > compromise would be a 12AT7, with a gain of about 60. As there's minimal > negative feedback in these stages (a loop from the speaker on V3), a > higher gain tube should give you more output for the same input signal. > > Note that each tube has two stages. The first stage of V2 is a cathode > follower so the tube gain won't make much difference there. The boost in > the second stage should do the trick. That's what I would try first. > > V3 has feedback to the first stage and a phase splitter on the second > stage, so I'd start with V2 first as it has one conventional amplifier > stage and you probably don't need a lot of boost. > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net > Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From chadhendrickson at sbcglobal.net Tue Feb 3 17:52:19 2009 From: chadhendrickson at sbcglobal.net (chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:53:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions Message-ID: <864899.9753.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 1)? On the Turntable Motor Assembly... there are two little funnel looking straw-like things sticking off the side.? One above the other.? Is this for oiling?? Am I supposed to squirt oil down into those? 2)? Hidden inside the Power Distribution Assembly there is a light bulb.? What is this?? Should it be lit when the jukebox is powered on? Thanks, Chad From pinball at telus.net Tue Feb 3 19:15:33 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Tue Feb 3 19:16:47 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions In-Reply-To: <864899.9753.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <864899.9753.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49890855.4000309@telus.net> chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net wrote: > 1) On the Turntable Motor Assembly... there are two little funnel looking straw-like things sticking off the side. One above the other. Is this for oiling? Am I supposed to squirt oil down into those? > > Yes, these are oil holes. 20 weight non-detergent or other small motor oil - sewing machine, etc. grade. > 2) Hidden inside the Power Distribution Assembly there is a light bulb. What is this? Should it be lit when the jukebox is powered on? > No, this is a protection light, it reduces current to the selection coils to help protect them from burning out if there is a problem. It will glow briefly when a selection is made, and then should go out. > Thanks, > Chad > You're welcome, John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 19:53:52 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 3 19:56:11 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: <001d01c98666$2351f650$69f5e2f0$@net> Message-ID: <795350.45655.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rich, Shoooda left that dust in there !? That juke has spent it's life collecting that dust, to add to it's "patina".? Get the speaker re-coned, by a GOOD re-coner,?as Wurly speakers are "dedicated" to the cabinet, and amp. They are different for each channel. Ron Rich P.S. If you don't know of one, contact me off list--Ron --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 5:15 PM I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are. Thanks again. Rich _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 19:58:35 2009 From: jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com (John) Date: Tue Feb 3 19:59:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe R93/Combo Message-ID: <898068.92980.qm@web53102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello Gary, first let me say that I have been working on this model since it came out. There should be no difference in volume, if you are using what I call 'store bought' records and CDs. There is a small circuit board plugged into the back of the CD player and it leads to the amp. This is called an attenuator board. It is used to attenuate the audio signal, so it is the same level. You could have a problem with it.(if it is there) First you need to listen to your front door speakers, one by one with a record playing. Hold your ear up to the speaker to check it. Then do it with a CD playing. Then post what happened. John the Jukebox Man From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 20:04:34 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 3 20:05:39 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions In-Reply-To: <864899.9753.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <720773.77979.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Chad, Yes, those are called oil cups--fill them with a SAE 20 wt. ND oil only--two to five times. That is called a "ballast lamp" and is only lit, while a selection is being made. Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/3/09, chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 5:52 PM 1)? On the Turntable Motor Assembly... there are two little funnel looking straw-like things sticking off the side.? One above the other.? Is this for oiling?? Am I supposed to squirt oil down into those? 2)? Hidden inside the Power Distribution Assembly there is a light bulb.? What is this?? Should it be lit when the jukebox is powered on? Thanks, Chad _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Tue Feb 3 23:01:37 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Tue Feb 3 23:02:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in an AMI F-G 120 Juke In-Reply-To: <20090203.130248.25378.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090203.130248.25378.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <49893D51.9080800@west.net> James Alexander wrote: > Something to consider----these juke amps all use a loudness contour function that is tied to the volume control setting. You'll notice as you crank the volume up (on any program material) that the bass response of the juke will tend to thin out. As sound levels naturally increase, the ear becomes more sensitive to bass and upper-treble frequencies. The contour function "dials" in bass-teble boosts at low-volume settings to give a full sound at low levels. The AMI F/G series don't. The volume control is a straight variable resistor shunt to ground. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From tracron at bigpond.net.au Tue Feb 3 20:22:46 2009 From: tracron at bigpond.net.au (Ron) Date: Tue Feb 3 23:52:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary References: <178984.44645.qm@web54009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Does this mean that the copy-right has finished on their songs? Ron from OZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "S.R. Boland" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary Here's what I posted on my band's MySpace site: 50 Years On That plane fell out of the sky a half-century ago. Three of the all-time greats -- Buddy, Bopper, and Ritchie -- had their young lives snuffed out in that freezing cornfield in Iowa. Mainstream pop music historians will tell you "that's the day the music died." But it didn't, of course. The music stayed... and influenced other artists, as it still does. The few years that followed the plane crash, before the calamitous British Invasion -- 1959 to 1963 -- proved to be some of the most creative and expressive in the history of rock 'n' roll, never mind what some all-knowing "critics" have written. It is our music. American music. It is as relevant and as moving now as it was in the winter of 1959. Thanks, Buddy... Bopper... and Ritchie. S.R. "Boris" Boland --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Thomas Mertz wrote: From: Thomas Mertz Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 1:50 PM I was listening to Buddy earlier, but it must have been my subconscious, because I had forgotten today was the date. I've got or good subconscious and in my house "Everyday is a Holly Day," in spirit if not reality (more like once every couple of weeks). Thomas J. Mertz Department of History Edgewood College tjmertz@sbcglobal.net Advocating on Madison Public Schools --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Dicecco, Michael wrote: From: Dicecco, Michael Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 12:32 PM Just a reminder that today is the 50th anniversary of that sad day in which the music died: Feb 3,1959 -- The plane crash that killed Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J.P. (Big Bopper) Richardson. Spin one of their records in rememberance! ____________________________________________________________ The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZRMHou5sbNbmuWkfny rur4QdguSMXnCIZsm3xj11tq5Cnc/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dave.halford at telent.com Wed Feb 4 00:29:36 2009 From: dave.halford at telent.com (dave.halford@telent.com) Date: Wed Feb 4 00:30:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary In-Reply-To: <178984.44645.qm@web54009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090204082938.D3368AFB0D@blade209.la.inty.net> The few years that followed the plane crash, before the calamitous British Invasion -- 1959 to 1963 -- Funny how the American public didn't want our tea or pay taxes (anybodies taxes, still the same today apparently,) but found the non American Beatles so wonderfull and such a refreshing change that they bought their records in millions. Sorry to spoil it for you ;O) regards Dave H "S.R. Boland" To: Jukebox mailing list Sent by: cc: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary etlojix.com 03/02/2009 19:18 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Here's what I posted on my band's MySpace site:? 50 Years On That plane fell out of the sky a half-century ago.? Three of the all-time greats -- Buddy, Bopper, and Ritchie -- had their young lives snuffed out in that freezing cornfield in Iowa.? Mainstream pop music historians will tell you "that's the day the music died." But it didn't, of course.? The music stayed... and influenced other artists, as it still does.? The few years that followed the plane crash, before the calamitous British Invasion -- 1959 to 1963 -- proved to be?some of the most creative and?expressive?in the history of rock 'n' roll, never mind what some all-knowing "critics" have written. It is our music.? American music.? It is as relevant and as moving now as it was in the winter of 1959.? Thanks, Buddy... Bopper... and Ritchie. S.R. "Boris" Boland --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Thomas Mertz wrote: ____________________________________________________________ The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZRMHou5sbNbmuWkfny rur4QdguSMXnCIZsm3xj11tq5Cnc/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net From bobe at halted.com Tue Feb 3 20:15:25 2009 From: bobe at halted.com (Bob E.) Date: Wed Feb 4 01:13:55 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: <001d01c98666$2351f650$69f5e2f0$@net> References: <001d01c98666$2351f650$69f5e2f0$@net> Message-ID: <4989165D.5080703@halted.com> Ssg Rich Myers wrote: > I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime > collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush > and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow > I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't > have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are. > You might try repairing it before you replace. I had to fix a tear in the speaker from my dad's 1937 Philco cathedral radio. I had read somewhere to use a piece of paper from a tea-bag for a patch, and when I cut one open, I was surprised at how strong the paper was, given how thin it was. I pushed the edges of the tear back together from the front and back side, until it was pretty much flat and all edges were in full contact along the length of the tear. I used some Aileen's Tacky Glue (available at craft stores) smeared thinly on the cone in the shape of the patch, laid the tea-bag paper down on it and smoothed it down with a toothpick, and then smeared a little more glue on the edges of the paper patch to "feather" it in. It seems to have worked well, the white glue dries clear but not hard. Try it, what do you have to lose if you are going to re-cone or replace? --Bob From dave.halford at telent.com Wed Feb 4 01:26:21 2009 From: dave.halford at telent.com (dave.halford@telent.com) Date: Wed Feb 4 01:27:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: <4989165D.5080703@halted.com> Message-ID: <20090204092626.B624620EFFE@blade202.lb.inty.net> Any PVA based glue will do the job very well as it sets' rubbery'. Not heard of using a tea bag, they're as tough anything, they survive in our compost heap for a year without any rotting and are still hard to tear. regards Dave H "Bob E." Sent by: To: Jukebox mailing list jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n cc: etlojix.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 04/02/2009 04:15 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Ssg Rich Myers wrote: > I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime > collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush > and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow > I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't > have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are. > You might try repairing it before you replace. I had to fix a tear in the speaker from my dad's 1937 Philco cathedral radio. I had read somewhere to use a piece of paper from a tea-bag for a patch, and when I cut one open, I was surprised at how strong the paper was, given how thin it was. I pushed the edges of the tear back together from the front and back side, until it was pretty much flat and all edges were in full contact along the length of the tear. I used some Aileen's Tacky Glue (available at craft stores) smeared thinly on the cone in the shape of the patch, laid the tea-bag paper down on it and smoothed it down with a toothpick, and then smeared a little more glue on the edges of the paper patch to "feather" it in. It seems to have worked well, the white glue dries clear but not hard. Try it, what do you have to lose if you are going to re-cone or replace? --Bob _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net From dvb at bowater.org.uk Wed Feb 4 02:15:28 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Wed Feb 4 02:17:00 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: <001d01c98666$2351f650$69f5e2f0$@net> Message-ID: <11A5F2E1F7C847009F59ED835ED50912@Lyn> Hi Rich Never repaired a Juke speaker but an old trick I have used in the past when a speaker is difficult to replace is to use model aircraft tissue and clear shrinking dope. The repair does not always have to be flexible as most speaker cones are very stiff so that they move in one piece. Hope that helps David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ssg Rich Myers Sent: 04 February 2009 01:16 To: 'Jukebox mailing list' Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are. Thanks again. Rich _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From steve.dumouchel at sympatico.ca Wed Feb 4 03:01:27 2009 From: steve.dumouchel at sympatico.ca (steve) Date: Wed Feb 4 03:02:38 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NSM Problem.... Message-ID: Does anyone have an NSM Grand Performer they can take a peek at inside? I'm reffering to my other post on the forum with a query about the same juke that I need help with. Please, thank you.. Cheers, Steve From digital.john at btopenworld.com Wed Feb 4 07:38:45 2009 From: digital.john at btopenworld.com (digital.john@btopenworld.com) Date: Wed Feb 4 07:39:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2800 selection problems Message-ID: <483307.6420.qm@web86601.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello Have made progress on the 2800 but still have two problems. If you trip a selection the mechanism travels ?to the pin and resets it but when the record is raised to play it returns to the carousel without playing. My other ?problem is when making a selection with the letter and number buttons, the buttons lock in you can here the plate ?the solenoids are on moving and the buttons then release as they should but no solenoid operates to raise a selection pin. Thanks for any help. John From digiovanni13 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 08:16:24 2009 From: digiovanni13 at yahoo.com (S.R. Boland) Date: Wed Feb 4 08:17:37 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary Message-ID: <309419.70364.qm@web54002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sorry if I touched a sore spot... the post was from the blog on my band's MySpace.? We?play American, pre-British Invasion rock 'n' roll, hence the tone of the post.? It's geared to our niche audience.? But my point?was simply that the music did live on and that all that came afterward were influenced by the three stars who died.? Another point I wanted to make was that the rock of '59-'63 was vastly underrated (think Roy Orbison, Del Shannon, Jack Scott, Phil Spector's "Wall of Sound," surf music, R&B from folks like Hank Ballard and the Midnighters).? There wasn't a loss of creativity in those years, as?so many music critics have conjectured. ? Yes, the American public bought lots of Beatles records.? It was a new sound and a change in taste -- so much so that most American rock acts could scarcely?find bookings or record labels in '64-'65-'66.? ? Thankfully, today, there are enough musical genres, venues, and media for everyone. ? ? S.R. "Boris" Boland ? --- On Wed, 2/4/09, dave.halford@telent.com wrote: From: dave.halford@telent.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 3:29 AM The few years that followed the plane crash, before the calamitous British Invasion -- 1959 to 1963 -- Funny how the American public didn't want our tea or pay taxes (anybodies taxes, still the same today apparently,) but found the non American Beatles so wonderfull and such? a refreshing change that they bought their records in millions. Sorry to spoil it for you ;O) regards Dave H ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "S.R. Boland"? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? To:? ? ???Jukebox mailing list ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Sent by:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? cc:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n? ? ? ? Subject:? Re: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? etlojix.com? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 03/02/2009 19:18? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Please respond to Jukebox? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mailing list? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Here's what I posted on my band's MySpace site: From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 08:49:15 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 4 08:50:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: <4989165D.5080703@halted.com> Message-ID: <115061.6577.qm@web111303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bob, Rich, and all, In the "Old Daze", there was a "speaker patch kit" available at the local "Radio-TV store". I recall using a kit many times with no problems. Might search around and see if one is still available? Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Bob E. wrote: From: Bob E. Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 8:15 PM Ssg Rich Myers wrote: > I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime > collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush > and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow > I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't > have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are. > You might try repairing it before you replace. I had to fix a tear in the speaker from my dad's 1937 Philco cathedral radio. I had read somewhere to use a piece of paper from a tea-bag for a patch, and when I cut one open, I was surprised at how strong the paper was, given how thin it was. I pushed the edges of the tear back together from the front and back side, until it was pretty much flat and all edges were in full contact along the length of the tear. I used some Aileen's Tacky Glue (available at craft stores) smeared thinly on the cone in the shape of the patch, laid the tea-bag paper down on it and smoothed it down with a toothpick, and then smeared a little more glue on the edges of the paper patch to "feather" it in. It seems to have worked well, the white glue dries clear but not hard. Try it, what do you have to lose if you are going to re-cone or replace? --Bob _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From Alan-hood at datex.co.uk Wed Feb 4 05:32:04 2009 From: Alan-hood at datex.co.uk (Alan-hood@datex.co.uk) Date: Wed Feb 4 09:04:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe R-93 CD/45 Combo (Gary Weakly) Message-ID: <655B3C747F0C0641901676E8D84957A00128B0@NTPDC1> Re Gary's message Rowe R-93 CD/45 Combo (Gary Weakly) How is the CD input connected to the amplifier? More than likely it will be connected to the auxiliary output/input connection P2 on the amplifier. Pins 1 & 5 with a common ground on pin 3. Usually the output from CD players is around 600 to 600mv. If connected as above I would have thought that the CD would have been louder. Try hooking up a hi-fi CD player to check the output into the amplifier. On the larger amplifier (250 watt) used on the CD jukeboxes it had connections for Phono and CD. Please let us know how you get on. Regards Alan Hood ami-man UK alan-hood@datex.co.uk ____________________________________________________________________ DISCLAIMER The information and any attachment with this message is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please notify the sender and delete the message immediately. Unauthorised disclosure, distribution and copying of this email are strictly prohibited The opinions expressed within this message are those of the individual author. Whilst Datex Systems takes reasonable steps to scan this email it does not accept liability for any virus that may be contained in it. ____________________________________________________________________ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 09:08:32 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 4 09:09:46 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary In-Reply-To: <20090204082938.D3368AFB0D@blade209.la.inty.net> Message-ID: <713873.42754.qm@web111314.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dave, Perhaps I am not the right person to say tis, as my Grandma was a Brit, but I think most of us Yanks, think that the Brits are OK blokes--despite former tas problems--Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/4/09, dave.halford@telent.com wrote: From: dave.halford@telent.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:29 AM The few years that followed the plane crash, before the calamitous British Invasion -- 1959 to 1963 -- Funny how the American public didn't want our tea or pay taxes (anybodies taxes, still the same today apparently,) but found the non American Beatles so wonderfull and such a refreshing change that they bought their records in millions. Sorry to spoil it for you ;O) regards Dave H "S.R. Boland" To: Jukebox mailing list Sent by: cc: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] A Sad Anniversary etlojix.com 03/02/2009 19:18 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Here's what I posted on my band's MySpace site: From dvb at bowater.org.uk Wed Feb 4 09:08:06 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Wed Feb 4 09:14:42 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions In-Reply-To: <864899.9753.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <58180C7BE61047B9B9F5EDC6138783D9@Lyn> Hi Chad My 448 does not seem to have the oil funnels. According to my manual the bulb is a current limiting lamp used when the search motor has its AC drive current removed and replaced with DC in order to brake the motor to stop the carriage assembly. So it is rarely on and then only for a very short time. If you do not have the service manual I would be quite happy to scan selected pages for you. Just let me know. I also have the parts catalogue. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net Sent: 04 February 2009 01:52 To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions 1)? On the Turntable Motor Assembly... there are two little funnel looking straw-like things sticking off the side.? One above the other.? Is this for oiling?? Am I supposed to squirt oil down into those? 2)? Hidden inside the Power Distribution Assembly there is a light bulb.? What is this?? Should it be lit when the jukebox is powered on? Thanks, Chad _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From williams at logantele.com Wed Feb 4 07:12:03 2009 From: williams at logantele.com (Tim) Date: Wed Feb 4 09:17:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) References: Message-ID: <548DC5182A934A8483BAF7596A488D98@studio69> C16 is 100uF and C17 is 10uF according to the schematic. Good luck Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Dumouchel" To: Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) > Hello all, hope someone can help me. I've an NSM Performer Grand and am > experiencing a reseting or re-booting problem and I suspect the cd > controll board since I've pretty much eliminated everything else. The only > two connections left plugged in are power and keyboard/display and the > symptom persists. The other problem I have, ( and created), is that I've > inadvertently removed two electrolytics, assuming they were both the same, > (10v @ 100uf), and of coarse, one was a 100uf @ 10v and the other was a > 10uf @ 63v... don't ask...might have been a little sleepy at the time of > extraction. The two caps in question are C16 and C17 on the cd control > board, the one mounted over the tone controls, Can someone pleeease i.d. > either one of the caps for me, thanks. > Cheers, Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From gazzyoung_uk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 4 09:28:57 2009 From: gazzyoung_uk at yahoo.co.uk (Gary Young) Date: Wed Feb 4 09:30:11 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Buddy Holly anniversary Message-ID: <210759.61100.qm@web23202.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi folks, for those who have not been fortunate enough to see this show, I would highly recommend going to see it if it comes to a town/city near you. I guess a lot depends on how good the person playing the lead part is, but I have seen it several times now and each time IMHO it has been excellent. here is the link. http://www.buddythemusical.com/theshow.htm Gary From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 11:24:26 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 4 11:26:37 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions In-Reply-To: <58180C7BE61047B9B9F5EDC6138783D9@Lyn> Message-ID: <101701.30016.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> David, Some of the motors were not equipped with oil cups--or just one, BUT they all do have an oil felt, and MUST be oiled !? If you lok carefully, there will be a "pinhole" near the shaft on both ends?and you can see the felt?in there--oil it there, until it refuses to "suck up" any more oil. ?Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/4/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:08 AM Hi Chad My 448 does not seem to have the oil funnels. According to my manual the bulb is a current limiting lamp used when the search motor has its AC drive current removed and replaced with DC in order to brake the motor to stop the carriage assembly. So it is rarely on and then only for a very short time. If you do not have the service manual I would be quite happy to scan selected pages for you. Just let me know. I also have the parts catalogue. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net Sent: 04 February 2009 01:52 To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions 1)? On the Turntable Motor Assembly... there are two little funnel looking straw-like things sticking off the side.? One above the other.? Is this for oiling?? Am I supposed to squirt oil down into those? 2)? Hidden inside the Power Distribution Assembly there is a light bulb.? What is this?? Should it be lit when the jukebox is powered on? Thanks, Chad _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Wed Feb 4 11:31:50 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Wed Feb 4 11:33:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions In-Reply-To: <101701.30016.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <62A0EC23177D45FD964BF14D0198C04F@Lyn> Thanks Ron I will have a good look Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: 04 February 2009 19:24 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions David, Some of the motors were not equipped with oil cups--or just one, BUT they all do have an oil felt, and MUST be oiled !? If you lok carefully, there will be a "pinhole" near the shaft on both ends?and you can see the felt?in there--oil it there, until it refuses to "suck up" any more oil. ?Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/4/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:08 AM Hi Chad My 448 does not seem to have the oil funnels. According to my manual the bulb is a current limiting lamp used when the search motor has its AC drive current removed and replaced with DC in order to brake the motor to stop the carriage assembly. So it is rarely on and then only for a very short time. If you do not have the service manual I would be quite happy to scan selected pages for you. Just let me know. I also have the parts catalogue. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net Sent: 04 February 2009 01:52 To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions 1)? On the Turntable Motor Assembly... there are two little funnel looking straw-like things sticking off the side.? One above the other.? Is this for oiling?? Am I supposed to squirt oil down into those? 2)? Hidden inside the Power Distribution Assembly there is a light bulb.? What is this?? Should it be lit when the jukebox is powered on? Thanks, Chad _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Wed Feb 4 11:34:44 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Wed Feb 4 11:51:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 / Now Seeburg Question In-Reply-To: <101701.30016.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <58180C7BE61047B9B9F5EDC6138783D9@Lyn> <101701.30016.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Ron, does the same apply for 1950's Seeburgs? I have a G that's got only an oil tube hole on the bottom of the motor. Yet the motor in my R has two oil tubes, top and bottom. Should I still try to put oil around the shaft of the motor on the top of the G motor? Will it have any positive effect? Is it necessary? And, I know that we are to use only non-detergent oil!!! Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: 2009, February, 04 2:24 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions David, Some of the motors were not equipped with oil cups--or just one, BUT they all do have an oil felt, and MUST be oiled !? If you lok carefully, there will be a "pinhole" near the shaft on both ends?and you can see the felt?in there--oil it there, until it refuses to "suck up" any more oil. ?Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/4/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:08 AM Hi Chad My 448 does not seem to have the oil funnels. According to my manual the bulb is a current limiting lamp used when the search motor has its AC drive current removed and replaced with DC in order to brake the motor to stop the carriage assembly. So it is rarely on and then only for a very short time. If you do not have the service manual I would be quite happy to scan selected pages for you. Just let me know. I also have the parts catalogue. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net Sent: 04 February 2009 01:52 To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions 1)? On the Turntable Motor Assembly... there are two little funnel looking straw-like things sticking off the side.? One above the other.? Is this for oiling?? Am I supposed to squirt oil down into those? 2)? Hidden inside the Power Distribution Assembly there is a light bulb. What is this?? Should it be lit when the jukebox is powered on? Thanks, Chad _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From pat2355 at aol.com Wed Feb 4 11:46:14 2009 From: pat2355 at aol.com (pat2355@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 4 11:54:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rock-ola Tempo 2 Id/serial number tag In-Reply-To: <101701.30016.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB55185F4DC401-F60-7F1@MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com> If Anyone ends up with parts or pieces of a Rock-ola Tempo 2 I still need the serial number/Id tag from the middle of the back of the box. Try to find the one that matches the numbers stamped in the wood below. HAHAHAHAHAH Thanks Pat From fborsdorf at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 13:12:10 2009 From: fborsdorf at hotmail.com (VB Manic) Date: Wed Feb 4 13:18:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: <4989165D.5080703@halted.com> References: <001d01c98666$2351f650$69f5e2f0$@net> <4989165D.5080703@halted.com> Message-ID: I did a search on the net and found this. www.simplyspeakers.com Is this the repair kit you have used in the past? > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:15:25 -0800> From: bobe@halted.com> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710> > Ssg Rich Myers wrote:> > I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime> > collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush> > and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow> > I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't> > have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are.> > > > You might try repairing it before you replace. I had to fix a tear in > the speaker from my dad's 1937 Philco cathedral radio. I had read > somewhere to use a piece of paper from a tea-bag for a patch, and when I > cut one open, I was surprised at how strong the paper was, given how > thin it was. I pushed the edges of the tear back together from the > front and back side, until it was pretty much flat and all edges were in > full contact along the length of the tear. I used some Aileen's Tacky > Glue (available at craft stores) smeared thinly on the cone in the shape > of the patch, laid the tea-bag paper down on it and smoothed it down > with a toothpick, and then smeared a little more glue on the edges of > the paper patch to "feather" it in. It seems to have worked well, the > white glue dries clear but not hard.> > Try it, what do you have to lose if you are going to re-cone or replace?> > --Bob> _______________________________________________> Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From fborsdorf at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 14:33:45 2009 From: fborsdorf at hotmail.com (VB Manic) Date: Wed Feb 4 14:34:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 616 and 312 Message-ID: I have two old Wurlitzers, a model 616 and 312. Both are in great shape given the age and look complete. The 312 has some delam around one side of the top but the 616 looks really good. I would guess both are a 6 to an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10. Best part is that no one has tried to repair them and it looks like they both would make great projects! My questions, what are they worth? Can the parts for them still be found? I do some work on Rowe 90 to the cd100's so I can find my way around them, but with this kind of investment I need advice before I crack them open or even power them up. Thanks in advance! From 19k20 at comcast.net Wed Feb 4 14:46:19 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Wed Feb 4 14:47:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: <115061.6577.qm@web111303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <4989165D.5080703@halted.com> <115061.6577.qm@web111303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002f01c9871a$65c134b0$31439e10$@net> Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately it is more than a little tear. It is about 1/4 torn off. I think re coning is the best option. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:49 AM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 Bob, Rich, and all, In the "Old Daze", there was a "speaker patch kit" available at the local "Radio-TV store". I recall using a kit many times with no problems. Might search around and see if one is still available? Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Bob E. wrote: From: Bob E. Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 8:15 PM Ssg Rich Myers wrote: > I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime > collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush > and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow > I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't > have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are. > You might try repairing it before you replace. I had to fix a tear in the speaker from my dad's 1937 Philco cathedral radio. I had read somewhere to use a piece of paper from a tea-bag for a patch, and when I cut one open, I was surprised at how strong the paper was, given how thin it was. I pushed the edges of the tear back together from the front and back side, until it was pretty much flat and all edges were in full contact along the length of the tear. I used some Aileen's Tacky Glue (available at craft stores) smeared thinly on the cone in the shape of the patch, laid the tea-bag paper down on it and smoothed it down with a toothpick, and then smeared a little more glue on the edges of the paper patch to "feather" it in. It seems to have worked well, the white glue dries clear but not hard. Try it, what do you have to lose if you are going to re-cone or replace? --Bob _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/3/2009 5:48 PM From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 14:56:10 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 4 14:57:30 2009 Subject: Fw: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 / Now Seeburg Question Message-ID: <259165.10554.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Ron Rich wrote: From: Ron Rich Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 / Now Seeburg Question To: "Dicecco, Michael" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 2:51 PM Mike, Sure does--especially so on one of the brand motors ! One brand has a couple of oil holes up top near the shaft, and another has many oil holes up there---Don't re-call which is wich, but they all originally had "sticker" applied that said something like "saturate the felt wick with Seeburg oil--very six weeks--".? Some Emmerson brand motors may only have one oil hole--Raytheaion (SP?) have more holes, and possibly some Bodine brand motors have oil holes, up top, rather than oil cups--not sure on that? And, that's right-Non-det. SAE 20 wt. oil--- BTW--Wurly, and AMi used the same TT motors as did RockOla---? Ron Rich ? ? --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Dicecco, Michael wrote: From: Dicecco, Michael Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 / Now Seeburg Question To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 11:34 AM Hey Ron, does the same apply for 1950's Seeburgs? I have a G that's got only an oil tube hole on the bottom of the motor. Yet the motor in my R has two oil tubes, top and bottom. Should I still try to put oil around the shaft of the motor on the top of the G motor? Will it have any positive effect? Is it necessary? And, I know that we are to use only non-detergent oil!!! Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: 2009, February, 04 2:24 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions David, Some of the motors were not equipped with oil cups--or just one, BUT they all do have an oil felt, and MUST be oiled !? If you lok carefully, there will be a "pinhole" near the shaft on both ends?and you can see the felt?in there--oil it there, until it refuses to "suck up" any more oil. ?Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/4/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:08 AM Hi Chad My 448 does not seem to have the oil funnels. According to my manual the bulb is a current limiting lamp used when the search motor has its AC drive current removed and replaced with DC in order to brake the motor to stop the carriage assembly. So it is rarely on and then only for a very short time. If you do not have the service manual I would be quite happy to scan selected pages for you. Just let me know. I also have the parts catalogue. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of chadhendrickson@sbcglobal.net Sent: 04 February 2009 01:52 To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Two Rock-Ola 442 questions 1)? On the Turntable Motor Assembly... there are two little funnel looking straw-like things sticking off the side.? One above the other.? Is this for oiling?? Am I supposed to squirt oil down into those? 2)? Hidden inside the Power Distribution Assembly there is a light bulb. What is this?? Should it be lit when the jukebox is powered on? Thanks, Chad _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 15:15:48 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 4 15:16:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <405935.55859.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Who are you axking? If it was me, I have no idea, as I'm way tooooo old to remember that far back---Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/4/09, VB Manic wrote: From: VB Manic Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 1:12 PM I did a search on the net and found this. www.simplyspeakers.com Is this the repair kit you have used in the past? > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:15:25 -0800> From: bobe@halted.com> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710> > Ssg Rich Myers wrote:> > I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime> > collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush> > and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow> > I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't> > have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are.> > > > You might try repairing it before you replace. I had to fix a tear in > the speaker from my dad's 1937 Philco cathedral radio. I had read > somewhere to use a piece of paper from a tea-bag for a patch, and when I > cut one open, I was surprised at how strong the paper was, given how > thin it was. I pushed the edges of the tear back together from the > front and back side, until it was pretty much flat and all edges were in > full contact along the length of the tear. I used some Aileen's Tacky > Glue (available at craft stores) smeared thinly on the cone in the shape > of the patch, laid the tea-bag paper down on it and smoothed it down > with a toothpick, and then smeared a little more glue on the edges of > the paper patch to "feather" it in. It seems to have worked well, the > white glue dries clear but not hard.> > Try it, what do you have to lose if you are going to re-cone or replace?> > --Bob> _______________________________________________> Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From 19k20 at comcast.net Wed Feb 4 15:48:01 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Wed Feb 4 15:49:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2800 selection problems In-Reply-To: <483307.6420.qm@web86601.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <483307.6420.qm@web86601.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003301c98723$044585c0$0cd09140$@net> John, There are others here with far more knowledge that I do, but I also am working on a 2800 and I think the issue with the record being raised to play them immediately rejecting is your transfer switch is not being released when the main cam rotates 180 degrees and pressure is released from the transfer switch. If you look at the back of the juke, the transfer switch is near the middle back. When released the screw that holds it to the left pulls off and being spring loaded will snap the leaf switches to the right. Make sure that is happening. Your selector issue is similar to the one I just corrected on my 2710. Is it happening on every selection, or a certain number or letter? The 'sliders' that the keys are connected have little tabs that make the connections on the selector board and may be bent or broken...or..the selector may need a good cleaning.... Jim Alexander and anyone else...feel free to correct me. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of digital.john@btopenworld.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:39 AM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2800 selection problems Hello Have made progress on the 2800 but still have two problems. If you trip a selection the mechanism travels to the pin and resets it but when the record is raised to play it returns to the carousel without playing. My other problem is when making a selection with the letter and number buttons, the buttons lock in you can here the plate the solenoids are on moving and the buttons then release as they should but no solenoid operates to raise a selection pin. Thanks for any help. John _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/3/2009 5:48 PM From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 15:59:07 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:00:38 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2800 selection problems In-Reply-To: <003301c98723$044585c0$0cd09140$@net> Message-ID: <903317.29275.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Guy's, Could very well be as Rich suggests, or a couple of other things. Check around at the connections for a remote? volume control--be sure that there are no wires (cut) there, or "hair wires" shorting terminals--also, measure the NC contacts (you GOTTA disconnect the com, if nothing else to test it)?on the end or record (reject) switch--they MUST be closed in that system.. If a "remote VC" is attached, remove it for now, to be sure it's not the cause of your problem. Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2800 selection problems To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 3:48 PM John, There are others here with far more knowledge that I do, but I also am working on a 2800 and I think the issue with the record being raised to play them immediately rejecting is your transfer switch is not being released when the main cam rotates 180 degrees and pressure is released from the transfer switch. If you look at the back of the juke, the transfer switch is near the middle back. When released the screw that holds it to the left pulls off and being spring loaded will snap the leaf switches to the right. Make sure that is happening. Your selector issue is similar to the one I just corrected on my 2710. Is it happening on every selection, or a certain number or letter? The 'sliders' that the keys are connected have little tabs that make the connections on the selector board and may be bent or broken...or..the selector may need a good cleaning.... Jim Alexander and anyone else...feel free to correct me. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of digital.john@btopenworld.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:39 AM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2800 selection problems Hello Have made progress on the 2800 but still have two problems. If you trip a selection the mechanism travels to the pin and resets it but when the record is raised to play it returns to the carousel without playing. My other problem is when making a selection with the letter and number buttons, the buttons lock in you can here the plate the solenoids are on moving and the buttons then release as they should but no solenoid operates to raise a selection pin. Thanks for any help. John _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/3/2009 5:48 PM _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From 19k20 at comcast.net Wed Feb 4 19:52:31 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Wed Feb 4 19:53:37 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 In-Reply-To: <405935.55859.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <405935.55859.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003401c98745$2c709a40$8551cec0$@net> My 2800 service manual shows a 6 inch 8 ohm PM speaker. Can someone confirm from a 2700 service manual that the 3.4 inch speaker is also 8 ohm PM? Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:16 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 Who are you axking? If it was me, I have no idea, as I'm way tooooo old to remember that far back---Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/4/09, VB Manic wrote: From: VB Manic Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 1:12 PM I did a search on the net and found this. www.simplyspeakers.com Is this the repair kit you have used in the past? > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:15:25 -0800> From: bobe@halted.com> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] One last thing......Wurli 2710> > Ssg Rich Myers wrote:> > I disassembled the front grill area and saw 46 years of dust and grime> > collecting in the speakers. I carefully dusted them out with a soft brush> > and went to wipe the dust off the plywood front with a damp cloth. Somehow> > I managed to tear the 3.5 inch speaker and now I need a new one. I don't> > have a 2700 manual and need to know what the specs are.> > > > You might try repairing it before you replace. I had to fix a tear in > the speaker from my dad's 1937 Philco cathedral radio. I had read > somewhere to use a piece of paper from a tea-bag for a patch, and when I > cut one open, I was surprised at how strong the paper was, given how > thin it was. I pushed the edges of the tear back together from the > front and back side, until it was pretty much flat and all edges were in > full contact along the length of the tear. I used some Aileen's Tacky > Glue (available at craft stores) smeared thinly on the cone in the shape > of the patch, laid the tea-bag paper down on it and smoothed it down > with a toothpick, and then smeared a little more glue on the edges of > the paper patch to "feather" it in. It seems to have worked well, the > white glue dries clear but not hard.> > Try it, what do you have to lose if you are going to re-cone or replace?> > --Bob> _______________________________________________> Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list_____________________ __________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/4/2009 4:35 PM From jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 20:08:38 2009 From: jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com (John) Date: Wed Feb 4 20:09:42 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Combo Jukebox Message-ID: <862296.9258.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I would like to correct some information I read. Record cartridges have a lower output level than a CD player.(600 micro-volts to 2 volts) Again, that's why ROWE has an attenuator board on the back of the CD player. Rowe also used the 130 watt amp in the USA sold combo units. There are 15 connections from the cartridge to the amplifier. If you are missing one of them, it can sound like one channel is out, or half the normal volume level. If the CD player sound is functioning properly, or both channels are working, it would be twice as loud as the one channel record level. I am glad I can offer my years of Rowe experience with people who need it. John the Jukebox Man From gcweakly at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 20:07:58 2009 From: gcweakly at yahoo.com (Gary Weakly) Date: Wed Feb 4 20:15:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe 93/Combo Message-ID: <613994.616.qm@web59308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> John, thanks for the reply. I listened closely to both speakers in the front door and they both sound the same.? The volume sounds the same out of both. The sound quality if fairly good, but not as crisp as I would like it to be, but maybe that is as good as it should be out of a juke this old.? I?then listened to the volume on a 45 record and then a "store bought" CD and the 45 was definitely louder.? However, there was not as much difference between these two than there was between a 45 and a CD I made on my computer, which is significantly different. I also checked the back of the CD player and there is a small circuit board that conects to the CD player with what appears to be two RCA type plugs. The wire runs from the circuit board to the amp. Do you think the attenuator board is bad?? If so, where might I find a replacement?? Any further help you or anyone else can give me will be much appreciated. ? Gary Weakly ? ? ? Hello Gary, first let me say that I have been working on this model since it came out. There should be no difference in volume, if you are using what I call 'store bought' records and CDs. There is a small circuit board plugged into the back of the CD player and it leads to the amp. This is called an attenuator board. It is used to attenuate the audio signal, so it is the same level. You could have a problem with it.(if it is there) First you need to listen to your front door speakers, one by one with a record playing. Hold your ear up to the speaker to check it. Then do it with a CD playing. Then post what happened. From jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 20:29:03 2009 From: jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com (Thomas Teeter) Date: Wed Feb 4 20:30:08 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe 93/Combo In-Reply-To: <613994.616.qm@web59308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <613994.616.qm@web59308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Try removing the attenuator board. There is a modification that can be made to the amp that will have the same effect as the attenuator board. I got it from Rowe about 10 years ago and have it "somewhere". Perhaps your amp has already been modified AND the imput is being further reduced by the attenuator board? If the attenuator board is defective (or missing), the CD will play significantly LOUDER than a record. Thomas On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Gary Weakly wrote: > John, thanks for the reply. I listened closely to both speakers in the > front door and they both sound the same. The volume sounds the same out of > both. The sound quality if fairly good, but not as crisp as I would like it > to be, but maybe that is as good as it should be out of a juke this old. > I then listened to the volume on a 45 record and then a "store bought" CD > and the 45 was definitely louder. However, there was not as much difference > between these two than there was between a 45 and a CD I made on my > computer, which is significantly different. I also checked the back of the > CD player and there is a small circuit board that conects to the CD player > with what appears to be two RCA type plugs. The wire runs from the circuit > board to the amp. Do you think the attenuator board is bad? If so, where > might I find a replacement? Any further help you or anyone else can give me > will be much appreciated. > > Gary Weakly > > > > Hello Gary, first let me say that I have been working on this model since > it came out. There should be no difference in volume, if you are using what > I call 'store > bought' records and CDs. There is a small circuit board > plugged into the back of the CD player and it leads to the amp. This is > called an attenuator board. It is used > to attenuate the audio signal, so it is the same level. > You could have a problem with it.(if it is there) First > you need to listen to your front door speakers, one by > one with a record playing. Hold your ear up to the speaker to check it. > Then do it with a CD playing. Then > post what happened. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > -- Thomas Teeter absolutelygreatgames.com E-bay ID: absolutelygreatgames E-mail: jukeboxrepairman@gmail.com From jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 21:22:16 2009 From: jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com (John) Date: Wed Feb 4 21:23:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Combo Jukeboxes Message-ID: <929894.86745.qm@web53110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I do find it odd the record is louder. I would check the attenuator board. Use a multimeter and check the circuitry. There is a left and right side, compare them. John the Jukebox Man From bobe at halted.com Wed Feb 4 21:16:55 2009 From: bobe at halted.com (Bob E.) Date: Thu Feb 5 03:36:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and an announcement! In-Reply-To: References: <613994.616.qm@web59308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <498A7647.2050004@halted.com> For those in the group who get the New York Times, there is an article about my company in the "Personal Tech" section in Thursday's print edition, and it's on their website (with a slide-show) now. I tried to work jukeboxes into the conversation, but I guess I was unable to sell the relevance to the reporter! Anyway, they did the interview and photos back in November (!) and I was on pins and needles for a couple weeks waiting for it to appear. I'm long over that now, but it's nice that it finally made the light of day. Today I'm more excited about a Vintage & Antique Radio show I'm going to be putting on in the store in two weeks, with some 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's technology to display. I don't know if I will be able to squeeze in a jukebox, but I may try if all other things fall into place...if you're in the SF Bay Area, come by the store on Feb. 21 (Saturday) for a look and a listen. I'll be spinning some 78's and 45's on some vintage phonos, if not in jukes. --Bob From drjukebox at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 04:40:23 2009 From: drjukebox at gmail.com (Jens Hultgren) Date: Thu Feb 5 04:41:39 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and an announcement! In-Reply-To: <498A7647.2050004@halted.com> References: <613994.616.qm@web59308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <498A7647.2050004@halted.com> Message-ID: <3154d3690902050440q69c830car67dd9116e2bdc9df@mail.gmail.com> Man! That is a sweet operation you're running there Bob.The real shocker was that you've been there since 1963?!?!?! You gotta tell us more about it someday. If I am in the area I'll make sure to stop by. Here's the url btw http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/technology/personaltech/05basics.html I tried to mail it straight from the NYTimes website but I'm not sure it will pass through the filters. Here's the slide show with Bob's voice http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/02/05/technology/personaltech/20090205-halted-audioss/index.html Just want to make it easy for u. so Bob where are the jukeboxes? :o) Jens On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:16 AM, Bob E. wrote: > For those in the group who get the New York Times, there is an article > about my company in the "Personal Tech" section in Thursday's print edition, > and it's on their website (with a slide-show) now. I tried to work > jukeboxes into the conversation, but I guess I was unable to sell the > relevance to the reporter! Anyway, they did the interview and photos back > in November (!) and I was on pins and needles for a couple weeks waiting for > it to appear. I'm long over that now, but it's nice that it finally made > the light of day. > > Today I'm more excited about a Vintage & Antique Radio show I'm going to be > putting on in the store in two weeks, with some 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's > technology to display. I don't know if I will be able to squeeze in a > jukebox, but I may try if all other things fall into place...if you're in > the SF Bay Area, come by the store on Feb. 21 (Saturday) for a look and a > listen. I'll be spinning some 78's and 45's on some vintage phonos, if not > in jukes. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From etreble7 at verizon.net Thu Feb 5 04:58:01 2009 From: etreble7 at verizon.net (etreble7) Date: Thu Feb 5 04:59:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and anannouncement! References: <613994.616.qm@web59308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <498A7647.2050004@halted.com> Message-ID: Bob, congratulations!!!! (I'll get my Dad's paper this morning) there's a "star" among us, you make me proud for your attempt to enlighten the world on the joys of owning a Jukebox! Jackie Dancin' Out ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob E." To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:16 AM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and anannouncement! > For those in the group who get the New York Times, there is an article > about my company in the "Personal Tech" section in Thursday's print > edition, and it's on their website (with a slide-show) now. I tried to > work jukeboxes into the conversation, but I guess I was unable to sell the > relevance to the reporter! Anyway, they did the interview and photos back > in November (!) and I was on pins and needles for a couple weeks waiting > for it to appear. I'm long over that now, but it's nice that it finally > made the light of day. > > Today I'm more excited about a Vintage & Antique Radio show I'm going to > be putting on in the store in two weeks, with some 20's, 30's, 40's and > 50's technology to display. I don't know if I will be able to squeeze in > a jukebox, but I may try if all other things fall into place...if you're > in the SF Bay Area, come by the store on Feb. 21 (Saturday) for a look and > a listen. I'll be spinning some 78's and 45's on some vintage phonos, if > not in jukes. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jeremy at dwave.net Thu Feb 5 04:58:51 2009 From: jeremy at dwave.net (Jeremy Agema) Date: Thu Feb 5 05:00:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and an announcement! In-Reply-To: <3154d3690902050440q69c830car67dd9116e2bdc9df@mail.gmail.com> References: <613994.616.qm@web59308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <498A7647.2050004@halted.com> <3154d3690902050440q69c830car67dd9116e2bdc9df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090205125556.M15667@dwave.net> Thanks for posting the links Jens. Bob, That is one cool place you have there! I am jealous of the people that are able to visit you. I am stuck in WI but I will have to work out the ways and means to get there. Here's to good business Jeremy Agema On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:40:23 +0100, Jens Hultgren wrote > Man! That is a sweet operation you're running there Bob.The real > shocker was that you've been there since 1963?!?!?! You gotta tell > us more about it someday. If I am in the area I'll make sure to stop > by. > > Here's the url btw > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/technology/personaltech/05basics.html > > I tried to mail it straight from the NYTimes website but I'm not > sure it will pass through the filters. > > Here's the slide show with Bob's voice > http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/02/05/technology/personaltech/2009020 5-halted-audioss/index.html Just want to make it easy for u. so Bob where are the jukeboxes? > > :o) Jens > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:16 AM, Bob E. wrote: > > > For those in the group who get the New York Times, there is an article > > about my company in the "Personal Tech" section in Thursday's print edition, > > and it's on their website (with a slide-show) now. I tried to work > > jukeboxes into the conversation, but I guess I was unable to sell the > > relevance to the reporter! Anyway, they did the interview and photos back > > in November (!) and I was on pins and needles for a couple weeks waiting for > > it to appear. I'm long over that now, but it's nice that it finally made > > the light of day. > > > > Today I'm more excited about a Vintage & Antique Radio show I'm going to be > > putting on in the store in two weeks, with some 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's > > technology to display. I don't know if I will be able to squeeze in a > > jukebox, but I may try if all other things fall into place...if you're in > > the SF Bay Area, come by the store on Feb. 21 (Saturday) for a look and a > > listen. I'll be spinning some 78's and 45's on some vintage phonos, if not > > in jukes. > > > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > Jukebox-list mailing list > > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From notarysojac at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 5 07:41:08 2009 From: notarysojac at sbcglobal.net (NotarySojac) Date: Thu Feb 5 07:42:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Bargain o' the week.... so far! Message-ID: <421205.75073.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My! What a pretty M100BL! And it's oh so close to where I live. Space! I need space! ...and cash! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280310348320&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us From drjukebx at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 04:35:12 2009 From: drjukebx at hotmail.com (drjukebx@hotmail.com) Date: Thu Feb 5 08:57:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NYTimes.com: A Haven for Spare Parts Lives On in Silicon Valley Message-ID: <20090205124827.2604EAAEF0@lists.netlojix.com> This page was sent to you by: drjukebx@hotmail.com. TECHNOLOGY / PERSONAL TECH | February 05, 2009 Basics: A Haven for Spare Parts Lives On in Silicon Valley By ASHLEE VANCE Once serving entrepreneurs like the boys from Apple, a shop is now the realm of hobbyists. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/technology/personaltech/05basics.html?emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 620 Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 09:04:51 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Thu Feb 5 09:06:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Bargain o' the week.... so far! In-Reply-To: <421205.75073.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <112519.44096.qm@web111307.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What surprises me is the price--well, I guess the seller hopes it will be bid up--I mean an "original" what-ever model --B-BL ? Also surprizzed that seller did not call it a "original Rolling Stones Juke"--paint it black---Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/5/09, NotarySojac wrote: From: NotarySojac Subject: [Jukebox-list] Bargain o' the week.... so far! To: "Jukebox List" Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 7:41 AM My! What a pretty M100BL! And it's oh so close to where I live. Space! I need space! ...and cash! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280310348320&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From pinball at telus.net Thu Feb 5 10:06:42 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Thu Feb 5 10:08:01 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and an announcement! In-Reply-To: <498A7647.2050004@halted.com> References: <613994.616.qm@web59308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <498A7647.2050004@halted.com> Message-ID: <498B2AB2.4040905@telus.net> Bob E. wrote: > > For those in the group who get the New York Times, there is an article > about my company in the "Personal Tech" section in Thursday's print > edition, and it's on their website (with a slide-show) now. I tried > to work jukeboxes into the conversation, but I guess I was unable to > sell the relevance to the reporter! Anyway, they did the interview > and photos back in November (!) and I was on pins and needles for a > couple weeks waiting for it to appear. I'm long over that now, but > it's nice that it finally made the light of day. > > Today I'm more excited about a Vintage & Antique Radio show I'm going > to be putting on in the store in two weeks, with some 20's, 30's, 40's > and 50's technology to display. I don't know if I will be able to > squeeze in a jukebox, but I may try if all other things fall into > place...if you're in the SF Bay Area, come by the store on Feb. 21 > (Saturday) for a look and a listen. I'll be spinning some 78's and > 45's on some vintage phonos, if not in jukes. > > --Bob > Great story! You might want to clip it and keep it on your web site as I find that articles can vanish after a while... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From bobe at halted.com Thu Feb 5 12:04:12 2009 From: bobe at halted.com (Bob Ellingson) Date: Thu Feb 5 12:16:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and an announcement! Message-ID: <2.2.32.20090205200412.0099790c@hsces.com> At 01:40 PM 2/5/2009 +0100, you wrote: >Man! That is a sweet operation you're running there Bob.The real shocker was >that you've been there since 1963?!?!?! Well, we've been in our current building since 1987, I've been with the company since 1978. The owner (Hal Elzig) started the company in the 60's in Mountain View, Calif. (before it was called Silicon Valley). So, pick the date that means the most to you! >You gotta tell us more about it someday. If I am in the area I'll make sure >to stop by. Sure! Just don't expect to find any 6973's in the tube section! --Bob ======================================================================= Bob Ellingson bobe@halted.com Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 12:41:00 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Thu Feb 5 12:42:09 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and an announcement! In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20090205200412.0099790c@hsces.com> Message-ID: <621792.96958.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Yea--Bob "hoards" all the good 6973's for himself !!! Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Bob Ellingson wrote: From: Bob Ellingson Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Soon to be on a news-stand near you...and an announcement! To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 12:04 PM At 01:40 PM 2/5/2009 +0100, you wrote: >Man! That is a sweet operation you're running there Bob.The real shocker was >that you've been there since 1963?!?!?! Well, we've been in our current building since 1987, I've been with the company since 1978. The owner (Hal Elzig) started the company in the 60's in Mountain View, Calif. (before it was called Silicon Valley). So, pick the date that means the most to you! >You gotta tell us more about it someday. If I am in the area I'll make sure >to stop by. Sure! Just don't expect to find any 6973's in the tube section! --Bob ======================================================================= Bob Ellingson bobe@halted.com Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Fri Feb 6 15:43:01 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Fri Feb 6 15:44:14 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem Message-ID: <859314DE18054DEAB71E166A1594088A@Lyn> Hello everyone I did not think I would post so soon.. My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just stopped. The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, but the turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. Tried to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole mechanism seems to have stopped. Any ideas as to where I should start? Many thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 16:24:28 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 6 16:25:37 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <859314DE18054DEAB71E166A1594088A@Lyn> Message-ID: <544450.97388.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi David, Can't quite understand exactly your problem is--must be a language problem--you? know us Yanks, don't communicate well in English. When you say that you "--tried to lift the tone arm--no effect", could you move it to the record end, or does it refuse to move? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/6/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 3:43 PM Hello everyone I did not think I would post so soon.. My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just stopped.. The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, but the turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. Tried to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole mechanism seems to have stopped. Any ideas as to where I should start? Many thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Fri Feb 6 17:14:30 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:15:43 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <544450.97388.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F1DC3E91FCF4D74B67EF6EEF15707BD@Lyn> Hi Ron Sorry, it moves easily and very freely as if it was in the play position. Just as if all was ok until the stylus hit the record. At this point everything stops, no power to the turntable and no sense as to when the arm would normally hit the end of record. Does that help? Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: 07 February 2009 00:24 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem Hi David, Can't quite understand exactly your problem is--must be a language problem--you? know us Yanks, don't communicate well in English. When you say that you "--tried to lift the tone arm--no effect", could you move it to the record end, or does it refuse to move? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/6/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 3:43 PM Hello everyone I did not think I would post so soon.. My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just stopped.. The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, but the turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. Tried to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole mechanism seems to have stopped. Any ideas as to where I should start? Many thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 17:15:24 2009 From: jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com (Thomas Teeter) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:16:33 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <859314DE18054DEAB71E166A1594088A@Lyn> References: <859314DE18054DEAB71E166A1594088A@Lyn> Message-ID: Tripped circuit breaker maybe? Thomas On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 5:43 PM, david wrote: > Hello everyone > > I did not think I would post so soon.. > > My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just > stopped. > The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, but the > turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. > Tried to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no > effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole mechanism > seems to have stopped. > > Any ideas as to where I should start? > Many thanks > David > > > David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com > www.bowater.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > -- Thomas Teeter absolutelygreatgames.com E-bay ID: absolutelygreatgames E-mail: jukeboxrepairman@gmail.com From dvb at bowater.org.uk Fri Feb 6 17:22:28 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:23:36 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <859314DE18054DEAB71E166A1594088A@Lyn> Message-ID: Hi everyone, sorry about the title, missed the "j" somehow! David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of david Sent: 06 February 2009 23:43 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem Hello everyone I did not think I would post so soon.. My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just stopped. The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, but the turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. Tried to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole mechanism seems to have stopped. Any ideas as to where I should start? Many thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 17:34:43 2009 From: jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com (Thomas Teeter) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:35:51 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <3F1DC3E91FCF4D74B67EF6EEF15707BD@Lyn> References: <544450.97388.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3F1DC3E91FCF4D74B67EF6EEF15707BD@Lyn> Message-ID: Sounds like a bad readout coil tripped the circuit breaker? Thomas On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:14 PM, david wrote: > Hi Ron > > Sorry, it moves easily and very freely as if it was in the play position. > Just as if all was ok until the stylus hit the record. At this point > everything stops, no power to the turntable and no sense as to when the arm > would normally hit the end of record. > > Does that help? > Regards > David > > David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com > www.bowater.org.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich > Sent: 07 February 2009 00:24 > To: Jukebox mailing list > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem > > > Hi David, > Can't quite understand exactly your problem is--must be a language > problem--you know us Yanks, don't communicate well in English. When you > say > that you "--tried to lift the tone arm--no effect", could you move it to > the > record end, or does it refuse to move? Ron Rich > > --- On Fri, 2/6/09, david wrote: > > From: david > Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 3:43 PM > > Hello everyone > > I did not think I would post so soon.. > > My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just > stopped.. The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, but > the turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. Tried to lift > the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no effect. pressed > the record reject button, no effect. the whole mechanism seems to have > stopped. > > Any ideas as to where I should start? > Many thanks > David > > > David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com > www.bowater.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > -- Thomas Teeter absolutelygreatgames.com E-bay ID: absolutelygreatgames E-mail: jukeboxrepairman@gmail.com From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 6 17:56:15 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:58:47 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem Message-ID: <20090206.205615.2543.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: You should be checking for either a blown fuse or tripped circuit breaker (certain later RO models) that controls the 28V DC power supply. If there is no power going to the "play control relay" , or if the relay itself isn't closing, it will cause all the symptoms that David is describing to happen at once. JIm Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9NZZj99eIBgQyikrjYizMoWxqOSeEN8uG3W378NjS0USJ6u/ From pinball at telus.net Fri Feb 6 16:38:52 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Fri Feb 6 18:00:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <859314DE18054DEAB71E166A1594088A@Lyn> References: <859314DE18054DEAB71E166A1594088A@Lyn> Message-ID: <498CD81C.6070103@telus.net> david wrote: > Hello everyone > > I did not think I would post so soon.. > > My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just stopped. > The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, but the > turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. > Tried to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no > effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole mechanism > seems to have stopped. > > Any ideas as to where I should start? > Many thanks > David > > Hi David, Sounds like a blown fuse or popped circuit breaker. What you are describing - moving the tone arm so the mute activates - but the gripper motor does not start, usually means a power failure to the gripper motor. It could be on a dead spot - one open commutator winding inside the motor, this is easy to check by simply turning the motor shaft a bit and seeing if it will now cancel. If it does cancel, then you need to service your motor. If it does not, then you need to check the fuses and circuit breakers to find the failure, if all are good then check if the gripper motor is dead (broken wire, worn out brushes, etc.) or a break in the circuit somewhere else - service manual and schematics needed at this point. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From dvb at bowater.org.uk Fri Feb 6 18:11:34 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Fri Feb 6 18:12:41 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <498CD81C.6070103@telus.net> Message-ID: Thanks everyone I will check all fuses (not aware I have any circuit breakers) but maybe the "dead spot" idea is right, this would explain previous problems where I had to manually move the gripper shaft. Unfortunately this time it seems to be truly stuck. Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of John Robertson Sent: 07 February 2009 00:39 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem david wrote: > Hello everyone > > I did not think I would post so soon.. > > My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just > stopped. The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, > but the turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. Tried > to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no > effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole > mechanism seems to have stopped. > > Any ideas as to where I should start? > Many thanks > David > > Hi David, Sounds like a blown fuse or popped circuit breaker. What you are describing - moving the tone arm so the mute activates - but the gripper motor does not start, usually means a power failure to the gripper motor. It could be on a dead spot - one open commutator winding inside the motor, this is easy to check by simply turning the motor shaft a bit and seeing if it will now cancel. If it does cancel, then you need to service your motor. If it does not, then you need to check the fuses and circuit breakers to find the failure, if all are good then check if the gripper motor is dead (broken wire, worn out brushes, etc.) or a break in the circuit somewhere else - service manual and schematics needed at this point. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 19:59:58 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 6 20:02:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <999519.13682.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> David, Do you know if the TT motor quit before or after the gripper placed the record on it? You either have a 1-6/10 amp "DC" fuse (may be marked "Mech"), or CB on that unit--check it. If the gripper motor is "truly stuck" (can't move it by hand-in either direction), you will need to loosen it, prior to changing the fuse/pushing the CB, as it will just blow again. Loosen the three screws holding the motor, and back it away from the gear. Try turning the motor by hand now. Try turning the large gear now. The one that won't move, needs attention. Try replacing the fuse/pussing the CB with the motor loose, listen/look for the pin reset coil operation, and see if the TT motor now is operating.? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/6/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem To: pinball@telus.net, "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 6:11 PM Thanks everyone I will check all fuses (not aware I have any circuit breakers) but maybe the "dead spot" idea is right, this would explain previous problems where I had to manually move the gripper shaft. Unfortunately this time it seems to be truly stuck. Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of John Robertson Sent: 07 February 2009 00:39 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem david wrote: > Hello everyone > > I did not think I would post so soon.. > > My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just > stopped. The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, > but the turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. Tried > to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no > effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole > mechanism seems to have stopped. > > Any ideas as to where I should start? > Many thanks > David > > Hi David, Sounds like a blown fuse or popped circuit breaker. What you are describing - moving the tone arm so the mute activates - but the gripper motor does not start, usually means a power failure to the gripper motor. It could be on a dead spot - one open commutator winding inside the motor, this is easy to check by simply turning the motor shaft a bit and seeing if it will now cancel. If it does cancel, then you need to service your motor. If it does not, then you need to check the fuses and circuit breakers to find the failure, if all are good then check if the gripper motor is dead (broken wire, worn out brushes, etc.) or a break in the circuit somewhere else - service manual and schematics needed at this point. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From lmeyer1943 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 6 11:28:08 2009 From: lmeyer1943 at hotmail.com (Larry Meyer) Date: Sat Feb 7 08:12:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rockola 448 Message-ID: I have a Rockola 448 jukebox and the mach reset button keeps popping. Do you know anyone here in Bakersfield that can fix it. Larry 661-332-3433 From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sat Feb 7 08:49:05 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sat Feb 7 08:50:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <999519.13682.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5ACBAF5FACDF4B1AA724F97E81FC8AF0@Lyn> Thanks everyone, your help is much appreciated. Turns out to be a seized gripper motor, have now removed it and will strip tonight. It also appears that my machine does have a contact breaker after all! Right in front of my nose, cannot believe I couldn?t see it. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: 07 February 2009 04:00 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem David, Do you know if the TT motor quit before or after the gripper placed the record on it? You either have a 1-6/10 amp "DC" fuse (may be marked "Mech"), or CB on that unit--check it. If the gripper motor is "truly stuck" (can't move it by hand-in either direction), you will need to loosen it, prior to changing the fuse/pushing the CB, as it will just blow again. Loosen the three screws holding the motor, and back it away from the gear. Try turning the motor by hand now. Try turning the large gear now. The one that won't move, needs attention. Try replacing the fuse/pussing the CB with the motor loose, listen/look for the pin reset coil operation, and see if the TT motor now is operating.? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/6/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem To: pinball@telus.net, "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 6:11 PM Thanks everyone I will check all fuses (not aware I have any circuit breakers) but maybe the "dead spot" idea is right, this would explain previous problems where I had to manually move the gripper shaft. Unfortunately this time it seems to be truly stuck. Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of John Robertson Sent: 07 February 2009 00:39 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem david wrote: > Hello everyone > > I did not think I would post so soon.. > > My juke was playing quite happily for several records and then just > stopped. The arm was placed on the lead in groove, amplifier mute off, > but the turntable is not moving, everything just seemed to stop. Tried > to lift the tonearm and move it to the record end position, but no > effect. pressed the record reject button, no effect. the whole > mechanism seems to have stopped. > > Any ideas as to where I should start? > Many thanks > David > > Hi David, Sounds like a blown fuse or popped circuit breaker. What you are describing - moving the tone arm so the mute activates - but the gripper motor does not start, usually means a power failure to the gripper motor. It could be on a dead spot - one open commutator winding inside the motor, this is easy to check by simply turning the motor shaft a bit and seeing if it will now cancel. If it does cancel, then you need to service your motor. If it does not, then you need to check the fuses and circuit breakers to find the failure, if all are good then check if the gripper motor is dead (broken wire, worn out brushes, etc.) or a break in the circuit somewhere else - service manual and schematics needed at this point. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 7 12:01:35 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 7 12:05:18 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem Message-ID: <20090207.150135.28944.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> David: This is a frequent Rock Ola problem. While you're at it, you should follow the complete cleaning/lubrication instructions for your mech if it hasn't been done within the last few years. The record basket motor will probably need the same attention in the near future. For a home jukebox, if the mech is cleaned and lubed once approx every 5 years, it'll run dependably for a long time. More frequent attention is needed if the machine is in heavy use or in a dusty humid environment. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9Wlbooic90v1c8dULzpflqHHGGja39nHZfPFp7dEVBkMiMe/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 7 12:21:37 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 7 12:24:00 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rockola 448 Message-ID: <20090207.152137.28944.2@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> Mr Meyer: RE: jukebox service help. My name is Jim Alexander and I operate a service business in the Atlanta GA area. I'm assuming that you are asking for a service tech in Bakersfield CA, right? Here are some names,contacts I know of in CA. You may need to call on one or more of these people as I don't know how close these are to your location. Possibly, they can recommend someone else local that's in a better position to assist you. Mike Zuccaro 8795 Corvus Pl. San Diego CA PH 858 271 8294 email: mjzuccaro@aol.com There is a veteran service tech named Ron Rich who frequently posts on this list. I believe he's located in San Francisco. I'm not sure whether he makes home service calls or not. The following names are taken from the Jukebox Collector's (magazine) national service tech directory. I don't personally know any of these people, I'm listing their names for you: In Chatsworth CA, Brad Frank PH 818 709 2157 no email address. In Lawndale CA , Terry McQueary PH 310- 350-9940 no email address In Sacramento, CA John Danford PH 916 987 3459 no email address. Hope this resource helps you, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Don't give up hope! Click here for professional marriage counseling! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryATWBaFAd6WCjzCskCkpdvuZgXDEt2gSINrunqwUgt9DjEoW/ From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sat Feb 7 12:55:47 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sat Feb 7 12:57:01 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem In-Reply-To: <20090207.150135.28944.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jim Got his after my last update. I am a little disappointed in the service manual, it spends a lot of time explaining how it all works, a couple of pages on adjustments but nothing on maintenance, i.e. oiling/greasing etc. Is there a manual I am missing? Looks like my gripper motor has had it. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of James Alexander Sent: 07 February 2009 20:02 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem David: This is a frequent Rock Ola problem. While you're at it, you should follow the complete cleaning/lubrication instructions for your mech if it hasn't been done within the last few years. The record basket motor will probably need the same attention in the near future. For a home jukebox, if the mech is cleaned and lubed once approx every 5 years, it'll run dependably for a long time. More frequent attention is needed if the machine is in heavy use or in a dusty humid environment. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9Wlbooic90v1c8dULzpflqH HGGja39nHZfPFp7dEVBkMiMe/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 7 14:51:10 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 7 14:53:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] [ukebox-list] Rockola 448 play problem Message-ID: <20090207.175110.4479.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com> Hello David: You ca n usually find used RO gripper-arm and basket motors on E Bay at a good price. A word of caution--not every gripper motor will fit every machine. You will need to get a motor from your era of machine. I think the RO 448 is a 1973 model---not sure. Most late 60's and 70's motors should be interchangeable--look at the motor connector to tell. There are also various parts of the motor sold separately. Brushes, armature shaft, etc. Those DC reversible motors are considered to be rebuildable. The RO service manuals I've read normally prescribe cleaning/oiling once every 6 months. I can't say that I've read the 448 manual in particular. This schedule, however was based upon commercial, heavy duty use. For home use, this translates to about once every 5 years. Neglecting the maintenance will lead to catastrophic failures like you've had. Here are some jukebox parts suppliers that may have NOS motors to sell or takeoffs from junked machines: Victory Glass web: www.victoryglass.com Durfee Coin Op web: www.jukeboxparts.com Jukebox Junkyard: web: www.jukeboxjunkyard.com Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ We bet you'll have fun at these great online poker sites! Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryATiJPQFLUJ6wIq8bbpjc6CZoRSHekGGVHt4bIv2V3WoseGC/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 15:33:25 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 7 15:34:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rockola 448 In-Reply-To: <20090207.152137.28944.2@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <319481.71774.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jim, Thanks for the "plug"--I do make home calls, however, I doubt that Mr.Meyr would be willing to pay me to travel over 600 (round trip)?miles--- Mike does not as far as I know, anyway it's at least 300 miles to Bakersfield from Mike's house too ! Kal-ee-for-nee-a is a BIG state --Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/7/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Rockola 448 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 12:21 PM Mr Meyer: RE: jukebox service help. My name is Jim Alexander and I operate a service business in the Atlanta GA area. I'm assuming that you are asking for a service tech in Bakersfield CA, right? Here are some names,contacts I know of in CA. You may need to call on one or more of these people as I don't know how close these are to your location. Possibly, they can recommend someone else local that's in a better position to assist you. Mike Zuccaro 8795 Corvus Pl. San Diego CA PH 858 271 8294 email: mjzuccaro@aol.com There is a veteran service tech named Ron Rich who frequently posts on this list. I believe he's located in San Francisco. I'm not sure whether he makes home service calls or not. The following names are taken from the Jukebox Collector's (magazine) national service tech directory. I don't personally know any of these people, I'm listing their names for you: In Chatsworth CA, Brad Frank PH 818 709 2157 no email address. In Lawndale CA , Terry McQueary PH 310- 350-9940 no email address In Sacramento, CA John Danford PH 916 987 3459 no email address. Hope this resource helps you, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Don't give up hope! Click here for professional marriage counseling! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryATWBaFAd6WCjzCskCkpdvuZgXDEt2gSINrunqwUgt9DjEoW/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From rjpope at sbcglobal.net Sat Feb 7 16:26:37 2009 From: rjpope at sbcglobal.net (Rodney J Pope) Date: Sat Feb 7 16:34:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 Message-ID: <748473.73541.qm@web82603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Need some help with my 2400. The turntable release arm moves forward and retracts although the bosses are not grabbing the record so the record is not spinning. Any help would be appreciated. ? Thanks ? Rod Pope From mw42080 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 7 18:08:44 2009 From: mw42080 at hotmail.com (Mike Wilson) Date: Sat Feb 7 18:17:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] My Needle Keeps Falling Out! Message-ID: Hi everyone, Rockola 1428 - I'm having trouble keeping my 3 mil needle in my Astatic 51 cartridge. From time to time the needle just falls out on the record it happens to be playing. It's happening on different records, and is happening more frequently as time goes by. Any suggestions for keeping it in there? Can I use a dab of rubber cement or something like that? Thanks, Mike W. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 19:09:06 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 7 19:10:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] My Needle Keeps Falling Out! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <824669.86440.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Yep--Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Mike Wilson wrote: From: Mike Wilson Subject: [Jukebox-list] My Needle Keeps Falling Out! To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 6:08 PM Hi everyone, Rockola 1428 - I'm having trouble keeping my 3 mil needle in my Astatic 51 cartridge. From time to time the needle just falls out on the record it happens to be playing. It's happening on different records, and is happening more frequently as time goes by. Any suggestions for keeping it in there? Can I use a dab of rubber cement or something like that? Thanks, Mike W. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 19:41:43 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 7 19:42:50 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 In-Reply-To: <748473.73541.qm@web82603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <846412.2466.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rod, I have seen a couple of things cause that symptom. Lack of oil--insert 20 wt ND oil into the hollow "nut" centered on the TT shaft. Check that the arm that "pushes" the bosses has not worn a hole in itself. Check that the (clear)?"fan" (up front)?is tight. Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Rodney J Pope wrote: From: Rodney J Pope Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 4:26 PM Need some help with my 2400. The turntable release arm moves forward and retracts although the bosses are not grabbing the record so the record is not spinning. Any help would be appreciated. ? Thanks ? Rod Pope _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 7 20:01:28 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 7 20:03:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rockola 448 Message-ID: <20090207.230128.6397.1@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Just trying to help somebody out by listing the CA. resources that I knew of. Chances are one of the people on that list can help out Mr. Meyer, or point him to someone who can. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ How does your garden grow? With great gardening supplies. Click and find them now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8nZvoiZiUj2xuCu2EvOWniWL4EAN7AaEF1HurjX91npdOwu/ From edbap at aol.com Sat Feb 7 20:01:18 2009 From: edbap at aol.com (Ed Baptista) Date: Sat Feb 7 20:07:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] need Seeburg C mirror Message-ID: <8CB57B907873D44-768-17D1@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com> I am looking for a mirror setup for the left side facing the machine, for a seeburg C.? Mirrors not important, but brack and fiberboard liner are. I can even do without the liner.? If you have an extra laying around, let me know.? Thanks.? edbap@aol.com Eddie Baptista From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 7 20:13:03 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 7 20:15:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 Message-ID: <20090207.231303.6397.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Hello Rodney: This is usually due to a lack of lubrication within the turntable mech itself. The telescoping mechanism and the turntable bosses (the 45 spindle fingers that "grab" the record) will seize up. The fix involves removing the plexiglas record guide (3 philips screws) in front of the turntable and injecting oil into the turntable interior. Oil should be injected into the rear center of the flywheel as well. When I 've done this, I have sprayed WD-40 into sticking mechanisms, followed by a 10 or 20 weight motor oil. The WD-40 alone is not a long-term lubricant. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and find discounts on certified diamond jewelry. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAL1F77oBahdiIygAcBnscdyHb7t5W9jqggQk5BP6TTq1pfQ/ From dirksenj at bellsouth.net Sun Feb 8 05:42:21 2009 From: dirksenj at bellsouth.net (dirksenj@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 8 05:43:12 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] My Needle Keeps Falling Out! References: Message-ID: <001a01c989f3$11cf8240$6101a8c0@Dirksen> Yes, you can. I've had this problem also and the cause was poorly manufactured needles. I bought a dozen of the 3 mil needles, and about half of them were bent wrong - the "leg" that fits into the cartridge was short. I have not seen this problem with the 2 mil needles. Compare the two if you have one. Of course your cartridge could be at fault as well. Good luck, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Wilson" To: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 9:08 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] My Needle Keeps Falling Out! > Hi everyone, > > > > Rockola 1428 - I'm having trouble keeping my 3 mil needle in my Astatic 51 > cartridge. From time to time the needle just falls out on the record it > happens to be playing. It's happening on different records, and is > happening more frequently as time goes by. Any suggestions for keeping it > in there? Can I use a dab of rubber cement or something like that? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike W. > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From jukeboxpete at cogeco.ca Sun Feb 8 04:57:15 2009 From: jukeboxpete at cogeco.ca (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 8 05:43:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NSM Problem.... References: Message-ID: <57D3D484E2B945289DA3B5D50F4A2E5F@Peter> Steve, Sent this direct to your e-mail off-list but I am not sure if you received it. Maybe you have an e-mail filter? If you get this okay let me know what e-mail to send the manual scans to. I also sent them direct to your e-mail. Or if you are just busy or away and already now have received them let me know. If you still need me to look inside the jukebox I am here until Wednesday when I have to head off to Vancouver for a few days. Peter ----------------------------------------- I have the manual for the Performer Grand and will scan and send you the pages on the CD control unit. I have to wait until I reinstall something on my wife's computer (which has the scanner) but according to the manual C16 and C17 are NSM Part-No 220 334 MKT-CAPACITOR 0,1 ?F. No voltage is given. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:01 AM Subject: [Jukebox-list] NSM Problem.... Does anyone have an NSM Grand Performer they can take a peek at inside? I'm reffering to my other post on the forum with a query about the same juke that I need help with. Please, thank you.. Cheers, Steve _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From steve.dumouchel at sympatico.ca Sun Feb 8 06:01:28 2009 From: steve.dumouchel at sympatico.ca (steve) Date: Sun Feb 8 06:02:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NSM Problem.... References: <57D3D484E2B945289DA3B5D50F4A2E5F@Peter> Message-ID: Peter, thank you very much for the email w/schems. I'll let you know as I progress which part(s) of the literature I'll need. Thank you. Cheers, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Brown" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] NSM Problem.... > Steve, > > Sent this direct to your e-mail off-list but I am not sure if you received > it. Maybe you have an e-mail filter? > > If you get this okay let me know what e-mail to send the manual scans to. > I also sent them direct to your e-mail. > > Or if you are just busy or away and already now have received them let me > know. > > If you still need me to look inside the jukebox I am here until Wednesday > when I have to head off to Vancouver for a few days. > > Peter > > ----------------------------------------- > > I have the manual for the Performer Grand and will scan and send you the > pages on the CD control unit. I have to wait until I reinstall something > on > my wife's computer (which has the scanner) but according to the manual C16 > and C17 are NSM Part-No 220 334 MKT-CAPACITOR 0,1 ?F. No voltage is > given. > > Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steve" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 6:01 AM > Subject: [Jukebox-list] NSM Problem.... > > > Does anyone have an NSM Grand Performer they can take a peek at inside? > I'm reffering to my other post on the forum with a query about the same > juke that I need help with. Please, thank you.. > Cheers, Steve > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 08:45:08 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 8 08:46:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] need Seeburg C mirror In-Reply-To: <8CB57B907873D44-768-17D1@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <174773.97329.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Ed, Did yu try all the "usual suspects" ? Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Ed Baptista wrote: From: Ed Baptista Subject: [Jukebox-list] need Seeburg C mirror To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 8:01 PM I am looking for a mirror setup for the left side facing the machine, for a seeburg C.? Mirrors not important, but brack and fiberboard liner are. I can even do without the liner.? If you have an extra laying around, let me know.? Thanks.? edbap@aol.com Eddie Baptista _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From recordhound at verizon.net Sun Feb 8 08:39:22 2009 From: recordhound at verizon.net (Jimmy Day) Date: Sun Feb 8 09:41:52 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] print software Message-ID: <2E196CF5FD604A7DA7D2DB655715CD30@screwylo> Hello everyone - Does anyone have any ideas on how to reverse print? I am "making" a front glass for the Rock Ola and need to print clear letters and a dark background onto clear film. Wish I still had my darkroom from my younger days. It would be easy with photography. *jukebox jimmy still pluggin away From david_breneman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 12:09:29 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Sun Feb 8 12:10:39 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] print software In-Reply-To: <2E196CF5FD604A7DA7D2DB655715CD30@screwylo> Message-ID: <670665.17036.qm@web42106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Jimmy Day wrote: > Does anyone have any ideas on how to reverse print? I am > "making" a front glass for the Rock Ola and need > to print clear letters and a dark background onto clear > film. Can you have a transfer made from vinyl? Most of those vinyl sign places can made "decals" that will stick to a smooth surface like sheet metal or glass, then the backing is pulled away. You bring them camera-ready art and they can make it with a device that looks like an Xacto knife in a plotter. I really miss having access to a litho camera. You can do all kinds of stuff with one of those. From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sun Feb 8 12:56:13 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sun Feb 8 12:57:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] print software In-Reply-To: <670665.17036.qm@web42106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Have you tried something like Adobe Photoshop "Elements version will be fine" or I think most other photo editors will be able to do the same job. Set the background to the colour you want. Write your text which you then make transparent In Photoshop use the magic selector and then use the eraser tool to reveal the transparent layer, that makes the text transparent. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of David Breneman Sent: 08 February 2009 20:09 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] print software --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Jimmy Day wrote: > Does anyone have any ideas on how to reverse print? I am "making" a > front glass for the Rock Ola and need to print clear letters and a > dark background onto clear film. Can you have a transfer made from vinyl? Most of those vinyl sign places can made "decals" that will stick to a smooth surface like sheet metal or glass, then the backing is pulled away. You bring them camera-ready art and they can make it with a device that looks like an Xacto knife in a plotter. I really miss having access to a litho camera. You can do all kinds of stuff with one of those. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From gnharvey at iprimus.com.au Sun Feb 8 12:56:36 2009 From: gnharvey at iprimus.com.au (Graeme Harvey) Date: Sun Feb 8 12:58:15 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] print software References: <670665.17036.qm@web42106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A9E89C12F0C40D5873DA895E98FC076@Graeme> Vinyl would not work. As it is to be applied to glass you would need translucent printing for the light to shine through. Graeme Harvey ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Breneman" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] print software > --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Jimmy Day wrote: > >> Does anyone have any ideas on how to reverse print? I am >> "making" a front glass for the Rock Ola and need >> to print clear letters and a dark background onto clear >> film. > > Can you have a transfer made from vinyl? Most of those > vinyl sign places can made "decals" that will stick to > a smooth surface like sheet metal or glass, then the > backing is pulled away. You bring them camera-ready art > and they can make it with a device that looks like an > Xacto knife in a plotter. > > I really miss having access to a litho camera. You can > do all kinds of stuff with one of those. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From rjpope at sbcglobal.net Sun Feb 8 13:12:36 2009 From: rjpope at sbcglobal.net (Rodney J Pope) Date: Sun Feb 8 13:13:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 In-Reply-To: <20090207.231303.6397.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <105252.95799.qm@web82601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> James and Ron, Thanks for the help, that did the fix. One more issue if you can help? When selecting certain letter/numbers such as E1-E3-E5 all play E3. This is occurring on the A-E-and F selections. Thanks for any help you can provide in advance. Rod Pope --- On Sat, 2/7/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2400 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 8:13 PM Hello Rodney: This is usually due to a lack of lubrication within the turntable mech itself. The telescoping mechanism and the turntable bosses (the 45 spindle fingers that "grab" the record) will seize up. The fix involves removing the plexiglas record guide (3 philips screws) in front of the turntable and injecting oil into the turntable interior. Oil should be injected into the rear center of the flywheel as well. When I 've done this, I have sprayed WD-40 into sticking mechanisms, followed by a 10 or 20 weight motor oil. The WD-40 alone is not a long-term lubricant. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and find discounts on certified diamond jewelry. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAL1F77oBahdiIygAcBnscdyHb7t5W9jqggQk5BP6TTq1pfQ/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From david_breneman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 13:26:46 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Sun Feb 8 13:27:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] print software In-Reply-To: <4A9E89C12F0C40D5873DA895E98FC076@Graeme> Message-ID: <941246.19264.qm@web42108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Graeme Harvey wrote: > Vinyl would not work. As it is to be applied to glass > you would need > translucent printing for the light to shine through. Yes, but the original question said "clear" not translucent. Clear is easy - just cut a hole. Translucent is much more difficult. Even with photo or litho film, it would have to be backed with a diffusing coating of some kind. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 16:32:49 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 8 16:33:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 In-Reply-To: <105252.95799.qm@web82601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <212965.19963.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rod, Been a thinkin on this one for awhile---Somehow, it makes no sense. Is it possible that more troubleshooting is needed, to refine the symptoms further? Try the following---Place the "record load" switch in the "load" position, and select the non-working selections one at a time. Observe the "electrical selector" and see if the proper pin is being released for each selection. If that's the case, I would think maybe that the selector was not properly aligned. Does it play the even "A's"? properly? (A-2/4/6--0) ? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Rodney J Pope wrote: From: Rodney J Pope Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 1:12 PM James and Ron, Thanks for the help, that did the fix. One more issue if you can help? When selecting certain letter/numbers such as E1-E3-E5 all play E3. This is occurring on the A-E-and F selections. Thanks for any help you can provide in advance. Rod Pope --- On Sat, 2/7/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2400 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 8:13 PM Hello Rodney: This is usually due to a lack of lubrication within the turntable mech itself. The telescoping mechanism and the turntable bosses (the 45 spindle fingers that "grab" the record) will seize up. The fix involves removing the plexiglas record guide (3 philips screws) in front of the turntable and injecting oil into the turntable interior. Oil should be injected into the rear center of the flywheel as well. When I 've done this, I have sprayed WD-40 into sticking mechanisms, followed by a 10 or 20 weight motor oil. The WD-40 alone is not a long-term lubricant. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and find discounts on certified diamond jewelry. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAL1F77oBahdiIygAcBnscdyHb7t5W9jqggQk5BP6TTq1pfQ/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From aaron at vertasource.com Sun Feb 8 17:31:34 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Sun Feb 8 17:27:47 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited Message-ID: <200902082031796.SM01092@[192.168.1.206]> Here's an interesting issue: Last week, I went through the conversion process of removing the GE VR-II cart and replacing it with a Pickering NP/AC cart. Fantastic results! Can't believe it's a 1954 jukebox coming out with this kind of sound. But I said that already. :) The problem I'm having now is that on some really heavy 80s records, the bass (kick drum, etc) is such that the tone-arm/needle occasionally skips on the beat and always at the same spots on the same records. Good example... remember the song "Somebody's Watching Me" by Rockwell and Michael Jackson? It sounds amazing. But on some kick/bass hits, the tone-arm will skip. I can physically hold the tone-arm in place so that it's forcing the needle to stay in the groove during the heavy hit...and most of the time, doing this will stop the needle from skipping at that passage in the song. However, it is really annoying. Another example is the song that for me defines the meaning of life - "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" by Wang Chung. Sounds incredible, but skips like a pig. I realize that a jukebox from 1954 isn't going to have "anti-skating"...but is there anything that can be done to keep this from happening outside of making the tone-arm very heavy and forcing it to track? I checked the position of the tone-arm without a record on the turntable.... it stays in one position and doesn't move in or out either way as it would if the tone-arm wire were too stiff. Just for kicks, I took another tone-arm and popped a VR-II on it just to see if it would track. It sounds horrible on stereo records...but it DOESN'T skip!!! What the heck?! I can play those same two records on my late 1970s Technics turntable tracking a 1.5 grams and it doesn't skip...so is it not the records...or is it something else causing the skipping on the G's tone-arm/cartridge combination? Aaron From edbap at aol.com Sun Feb 8 17:34:56 2009 From: edbap at aol.com (Ed Baptista) Date: Sun Feb 8 17:42:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] need Seeburg C mirror In-Reply-To: <174773.97329.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB586DBFAC32A5-AA4-17DD@Webmail-mg15.sim.aol.com> Found one, thanks Ron. Eddie Baptista -----Original Message----- From: Ron Rich To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 8:45 am Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] need Seeburg C mirror Ed, Did yu try all the "usual suspects" ? Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Ed Baptista wrote: From: Ed Baptista Subject: [Jukebox-list] need Seeburg C mirror To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 8:01 PM I am looking for a mirror setup for the left side facing the machine, for a seeburg C.? Mirrors not important, but brack and fiberboard liner are. I can even do without the liner.? If you have an extra laying around, let me know.? Thanks.? edbap@aol.com Eddie Baptista _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Sun Feb 8 17:55:09 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Sun Feb 8 17:57:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: Hello, boys. In-Reply-To: <20090201200002.EC970AAF7D@lists.netlojix.com> References: <20090201200002.EC970AAF7D@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: What kind of car? 1963 VW Beetle. He's famous. Here are some photos. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JimDouglasJr/HH%20Done/ Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Sun Feb 8 18:03:19 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Sun Feb 8 18:04:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 1970s Rock Ola 160 mech record retainer strap In-Reply-To: <20090202200003.8BF39AAEEC@lists.netlojix.com> References: <20090202200003.8BF39AAEEC@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: Well, I got back into jukes today. Went quite a way to get a RO 468 going. Typical frozen transfer arm and general maintenance. It feels good to be reading the list and having my hands in again. Anyone have a junk Rock Ola Mechanism around? I could use the thin metal strap that holds the records in the magazine when they're going around the bottom half. Looks like someone removed it to get their records out. A couple records were left on either side, but all gone from the top and bottom. I even found the screws that hold it in. Well, 2 of them. looks like maybe 4 are used. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From david_breneman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 18:17:09 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Sun Feb 8 18:18:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited In-Reply-To: <200902082031796.SM01092@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <727756.10762.qm@web42103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Aaron Heverin wrote: > I realize that a jukebox from 1954 isn't going to have > "anti-skating"...but is there anything that can be > done to keep this from happening outside of making the > tone-arm very heavy and forcing it to track? This isn't an anti-skating issue. Anti-skating has to do with the record equivalent of the coriolis effect (for lack of a better analogy). You problem sounds like, as your test indicates, insufficient tracking force. What is it now? What is the tracking weight range of the cartridge? Can you raise the weight, by adjusting the spring under the tonearm, without exceeding the range of the cartridge? Any cartridge should track within its weight range without damage to the record. > Just for kicks, I took another tone-arm and popped a VR-II > on it just to see if it would track. It sounds horrible on > stereo records...but it DOESN'T skip!!! What the heck?! That's because it's lopping off the out of phase information in the groove with its lack of vertical compliance. :-) The stylus cantilever on a stereo cartridge is by its nature "springier" than on a monaural cartridge, so it will bounce around more at the lower end of its tracking force range. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 18:32:50 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 8 18:33:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited In-Reply-To: <200902082031796.SM01092@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <498661.14971.qm@web111308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Aaron, Is the mechanism suspension free to "float". I really don't remember how it's suspended, but most phono's must be free enough that the bass speaker sounds do not cause the tone arm to bounce. Perhaps, the tone arm weight is too light for the NA/PC-- think those were rated at about 5 grams--check it to be sure--Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Aaron Heverin wrote: From: Aaron Heverin Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 5:31 PM Here's an interesting issue: Last week, I went through the conversion process of removing the GE VR-II cart and replacing it with a Pickering NP/AC cart. Fantastic results! Can't believe it's a 1954 jukebox coming out with this kind of sound. But I said that already. :) The problem I'm having now is that on some really heavy 80s records, the bass (kick drum, etc) is such that the tone-arm/needle occasionally skips on the beat and always at the same spots on the same records. Good example... remember the song "Somebody's Watching Me" by Rockwell and Michael Jackson? It sounds amazing. But on some kick/bass hits, the tone-arm will skip. I can physically hold the tone-arm in place so that it's forcing the needle to stay in the groove during the heavy hit...and most of the time, doing this will stop the needle from skipping at that passage in the song. However, it is really annoying. Another example is the song that for me defines the meaning of life - "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" by Wang Chung. Sounds incredible, but skips like a pig. I realize that a jukebox from 1954 isn't going to have "anti-skating"...but is there anything that can be done to keep this from happening outside of making the tone-arm very heavy and forcing it to track? I checked the position of the tone-arm without a record on the turntable.... it stays in one position and doesn't move in or out either way as it would if the tone-arm wire were too stiff. Just for kicks, I took another tone-arm and popped a VR-II on it just to see if it would track. It sounds horrible on stereo records...but it DOESN'T skip!!! What the heck?! I can play those same two records on my late 1970s Technics turntable tracking a 1.5 grams and it doesn't skip...so is it not the records...or is it something else causing the skipping on the G's tone-arm/cartridge combination? Aaron _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 18:39:58 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 8 18:41:04 2009 Subject: Fw: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited Message-ID: <322952.20189.qm@web111308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> P. S.---- I could also tell you, like I tell my grand kids-"Turn it DOWN"--if it won't skip at that point, it's defiantly a mechanism "float" problem. If it does still skip, it may be as you suspected, a tone arm wire stiffness problem---Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Ron Rich wrote: From: Ron Rich Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 6:32 PM Aaron, Is the mechanism suspension free to "float". I really don't remember how it's suspended, but most phono's must be free enough that the bass speaker sounds do not cause the tone arm to bounce. Perhaps, the tone arm weight is too light for the NA/PC-- think those were rated at about 5 grams--check it to be sure--Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Aaron Heverin wrote: From: Aaron Heverin Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 5:31 PM Here's an interesting issue: Last week, I went through the conversion process of removing the GE VR-II cart and replacing it with a Pickering NP/AC cart. Fantastic results! Can't believe it's a 1954 jukebox coming out with this kind of sound. But I said that already. :) The problem I'm having now is that on some really heavy 80s records, the bass (kick drum, etc) is such that the tone-arm/needle occasionally skips on the beat and always at the same spots on the same records. Good example... remember the song "Somebody's Watching Me" by Rockwell and Michael Jackson? It sounds amazing. But on some kick/bass hits, the tone-arm will skip. I can physically hold the tone-arm in place so that it's forcing the needle to stay in the groove during the heavy hit...and most of the time, doing this will stop the needle from skipping at that passage in the song. However, it is really annoying. Another example is the song that for me defines the meaning of life - "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" by Wang Chung. Sounds incredible, but skips like a pig. I realize that a jukebox from 1954 isn't going to have "anti-skating"...but is there anything that can be done to keep this from happening outside of making the tone-arm very heavy and forcing it to track? I checked the position of the tone-arm without a record on the turntable.... it stays in one position and doesn't move in or out either way as it would if the tone-arm wire were too stiff. Just for kicks, I took another tone-arm and popped a VR-II on it just to see if it would track. It sounds horrible on stereo records...but it DOESN'T skip!!! What the heck?! I can play those same two records on my late 1970s Technics turntable tracking a 1.5 grams and it doesn't skip...so is it not the records...or is it something else causing the skipping on the G's tone-arm/cartridge combination? Aaron _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From 19k20 at comcast.net Sun Feb 8 18:40:59 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Sun Feb 8 18:42:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 In-Reply-To: <212965.19963.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <105252.95799.qm@web82601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <212965.19963.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401c98a5f$d7c5a3f0$8750ebd0$@net> Hey Ron and Rod..... I had a similar issue when troubleshooting the 2710 selector. I am not sure if the 2400 selector has three pairs of contacts for each key like the 2700 series does....one pair when at rest and the second set of contacts when a selection is made. Here is a quote from Harold Hagen that he sent me that made sense of the selectors and plate. In this quote Harold was referencing my issue with not getting any selection with the number 1 to pop a pin.....but this might come in handy. Rod, you might have to disassemble your selector and check to make sure the little tabs in the sliders are not bent or broken and check continuity across them. QUOTE: "It sounds like a selector switch problem. The second row of terminals operate the plate that rotates in the selector assembly. There are no wires to the #3 and 8 positions (the plate doesn't rotate for these numbers). This obviously isn't your problem as a bad contact in the #1 switch would just play #3. The third and fourth rows determine which letter solenoids get fired. The fifth and sixth rows actually do cycling of the selection circuitry. If it cycles (the buttons latch, then pop out in a second or two), but it doesn't punch a pin, then it's probably the fourth row contact. If it doesn't go through the selection cycle, then it's probably a rear row contact. If you have a broken slider contact, then you'd probably be best off to find a replacement assembly. Harold" Hope this might help. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 6:33 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 Rod, Been a thinkin on this one for awhile---Somehow, it makes no sense. Is it possible that more troubleshooting is needed, to refine the symptoms further? Try the following---Place the "record load" switch in the "load" position, and select the non-working selections one at a time. Observe the "electrical selector" and see if the proper pin is being released for each selection. If that's the case, I would think maybe that the selector was not properly aligned. Does it play the even "A's"? properly? (A-2/4/6--0) ? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Rodney J Pope wrote: From: Rodney J Pope Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 1:12 PM James and Ron, Thanks for the help, that did the fix. One more issue if you can help? When selecting certain letter/numbers such as E1-E3-E5 all play E3. This is occurring on the A-E-and F selections. Thanks for any help you can provide in advance. Rod Pope --- On Sat, 2/7/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2400 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 8:13 PM Hello Rodney: This is usually due to a lack of lubrication within the turntable mech itself. The telescoping mechanism and the turntable bosses (the 45 spindle fingers that "grab" the record) will seize up. The fix involves removing the plexiglas record guide (3 philips screws) in front of the turntable and injecting oil into the turntable interior. Oil should be injected into the rear center of the flywheel as well. When I 've done this, I have sprayed WD-40 into sticking mechanisms, followed by a 10 or 20 weight motor oil. The WD-40 alone is not a long-term lubricant. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and find discounts on certified diamond jewelry. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAL1F77oBahdiIygAcBnscdy Hb7t5W9jqggQk5BP6TTq1pfQ/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM From aaron at vertasource.com Sun Feb 8 20:16:59 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Sun Feb 8 20:13:11 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited Message-ID: <200902082316104.SM01092@[192.168.1.206]> Ron, The mech is floating freely. Just to be sure, I turned the amp down in an earlier test to see if it was the volume that was causing the bounce. It's not. I don't have the tone-arm tracking very heavy. I don't have a gram scale or a tone-arm weight scale to know the tracking pressure for sure, but what I am trying to achieve is a lighter touch so that the needle itself doesn't get compressed too much into its case. Dave...I always thought that the anti-skate function of a tone-arm was to adjust the left/right pressure on the stylus. To far left or right would allow for certain distortions as the needle tracked in the groove. On my Techincs, it's very obvious that if the anti-skating is off, the needle sounds as if it's trying to climb out of the grooves of a record on particular passages in the music. Wouldn't this be a similar situation? Everyone who's ever examined a record up close can see that on very deep (bass) passages, the grooves are spread further apart . Check out any 12" dance single from the disco era and you can see the pattern formed in the grooves of a continuous heavy beat. It's always been my understanding the if the anti-skate is not set to match the weight (in grams) of the tone-arm, then the needle will try and climb out of those grooves. Regardless, are you saying, Ron, that I should try and track the NP/AC heavier? Wow. Any heavier and the needle shaft will be buried in its plastic housing. I checked the tone-arm wire too. It's not pushing the tone-arm in any direction. Regardless of where I place the tone-arm on an empty turntable...it won't move as if pushed by the wire. I found the perfect tone-arm wire too. Ever have a Pulse-Ox test done? If you ever have one done...see if you can save the cable that connects from your finger to the monitor. It's got a typical old style serial port plug on one side...and the sensor on the other. If you cut open the cable...there's several additional wires inside. One of the wires is a very tiny, two conductor wire surrounded by a copper braid. This cable is about a 1/16" in diameter and is perfect for a tone-arm. The way I have it mounted...it's not putting any lateral pressure on the tone-arm whatsoever. A. From gcweakly at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 21:45:21 2009 From: gcweakly at yahoo.com (Gary Weakly) Date: Sun Feb 8 21:46:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe 93 Combo Message-ID: <346702.22889.qm@web59303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> John, I've been out of town and just got around to checking my attenuator board as you suggested in the post below. Sorry I'm so ignorant about this, but I'm just learning. I'm not clear on what you mean about the "15 connections from the cartridge to the amplifier". I checked my attenuator board and there are 3 wires going to the amp (see attached photo) and there are 4 wires going from the tonearm to the amp (see attached photo). I tried unplugging the attenuator board (as someone suggested in one post), but I don't get any sound from the CD changer with the attenuator board unplugged. What am I missing here? Gary Weakly Message: 9 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:08:38 -0800 (PST) From: John Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Combo Jukebox To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: <862296.9258.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I would like to correct some information I read. Record cartridges have a lower output level than a CD player.(600 micro-volts to 2 volts) Again, that's why ROWE has an attenuator board on the back of the CD player. Rowe also used the 130 watt amp in the USA sold combo units. There are 15 connections from the cartridge to the amplifier. If you are missing one of them, it can sound like one channel is out, or half the normal volume level. If the CD player sound is functioning properly, or both channels are working, it would be twice as loud as the one channel record level. I am glad I can offer my years of Rowe experience with people who need it. From gazzyoung_uk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 9 00:49:51 2009 From: gazzyoung_uk at yahoo.co.uk (Gary Young) Date: Mon Feb 9 00:51:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] My Needle Keeps Falling Out! In-Reply-To: <001a01c989f3$11cf8240$6101a8c0@Dirksen> Message-ID: <163192.8642.qm@web23205.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi Mike, I had the same problem with my 1426. to hold it in place, I put a very small strip of insulating tape just under where the needle goes into the cartridge. Not sure if this is right or wrong, but it seems to work for me. regards Gary > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > Rockola 1428 - I'm having trouble keeping my 3 mil > needle in my Astatic 51 > > cartridge. From time to time the needle just falls > out on the record it > > happens to be playing. It's happening on > different records, and is > > happening more frequently as time goes by. Any > suggestions for keeping it > > in there? Can I use a dab of rubber cement or > something like that? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Mike W. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Jukebox-list mailing list > > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jeremy at dwave.net Mon Feb 9 04:52:39 2009 From: jeremy at dwave.net (Jeremy Agema) Date: Mon Feb 9 04:53:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 1970s Rock Ola 160 mech record retainer strap In-Reply-To: References: <20090202200003.8BF39AAEEC@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: <20090209125201.M11413@dwave.net> I should have one in the garage, I will check tonight. Jeremy Agema On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:03:19 -0800, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote > Well, I got back into jukes today. > Went quite a way to get a RO 468 going. Typical frozen transfer arm > and general maintenance. > > It feels good to be reading the list and having my hands in again. > > Anyone have a junk Rock Ola Mechanism around? > I could use the thin metal strap that holds the records in the > magazine when they're going around the bottom half. Looks like > someone removed it to get their records out. A couple records were > left on either side, but all gone from the top and bottom. I even > found the screws that hold it in. Well, 2 of them. looks like maybe > 4 are used. > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > > _________________________________________________________________ [WINDOWS-1252?]> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. > http://windowslive.com/explore? ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009____________________________________ ___________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From maddleso at gmu.edu Mon Feb 9 06:41:04 2009 From: maddleso at gmu.edu (Mark Addleson) Date: Mon Feb 9 06:42:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Vol 67, Issue 8 = printing text in reverse In-Reply-To: <20090208200003.E84ACAADDD@lists.netlojix.com> References: <20090208200003.E84ACAADDD@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: <53FC828F77E145BAB243014582DF9929@MarkVaio> Hi In case anyone else is struggling with Jimmy's problem of printing text in reverse, almost every graphics package, even the very basic ones, have a 'horizontal flip' option. Create the image and then apply the horizontal flip and save it. That's all it takes. I miss my darkroom too, but this is much easier and quicker! Regards Mark _____________________________________________________ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:39:22 -0500 From: "Jimmy Day" Subject: [Jukebox-list] print software To: Message-ID: <2E196CF5FD604A7DA7D2DB655715CD30@screwylo> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hello everyone - Does anyone have any ideas on how to reverse print? I am "making" a front glass for the Rock Ola and need to print clear letters and a dark background onto clear film. Wish I still had my darkroom from my younger days. It would be easy with photography. *jukebox jimmy still pluggin away ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list End of Jukebox-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 8 ******************************************* From lawrenceashcroft at btinternet.com Mon Feb 9 08:12:29 2009 From: lawrenceashcroft at btinternet.com (LAWRENCE ASHCROFT) Date: Mon Feb 9 08:20:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Message-ID: <901238.24157.qm@web87113.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all i am after a service manual for a NSM Festival 160es jukebox or a photo copy .any one know were i can get one. Laurie ash. From lralkie at shaw.ca Mon Feb 9 08:31:29 2009 From: lralkie at shaw.ca (Len Ralkie) Date: Mon Feb 9 08:32:43 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 1970s Rock Ola 160 mech record retainer strap References: <20090202200003.8BF39AAEEC@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: <674E31EFE3B24CD8BAD5BB4F59CBD476@your4dacd0ea75> I'm a great believer in improvising when I can't find things. I would make one using piece of metal strapping, the kind used to strap boxes to a crate etc. All you have to do is cut to length and drill holes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mechanical Music of S.F." To: Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 8:03 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] 1970s Rock Ola 160 mech record retainer strap Well, I got back into jukes today. Went quite a way to get a RO 468 going. Typical frozen transfer arm and general maintenance. It feels good to be reading the list and having my hands in again. Anyone have a junk Rock Ola Mechanism around? I could use the thin metal strap that holds the records in the magazine when they're going around the bottom half. Looks like someone removed it to get their records out. A couple records were left on either side, but all gone from the top and bottom. I even found the screws that hold it in. Well, 2 of them. looks like maybe 4 are used. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 09:01:13 2009 From: jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com (John) Date: Mon Feb 9 09:02:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] ROWE combo Message-ID: <952648.26697.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Gary, first you should read all the posts. Then if you can't figure it out, and I hate to say this, call a paid professional. You might find one in your local phone book, or go to ROWE INT'L's website, find the local distributor for you and ask them. John the Jukebox Man From pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk Mon Feb 9 11:29:02 2009 From: pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk (Nigel Pugh) Date: Mon Feb 9 11:30:17 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited In-Reply-To: <200902082316104.SM01092@[192.168.1.206]> References: <200902082316104.SM01092@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <004a01c98aec$aa224f60$fe66ee20$@force9.co.uk> I missed the start of this thread but always like to get involved on cartridge issues. Couple of things - is the stylus in the NP/AC ok ? Even if new it could be duff. I had some new Genuine stantons and they were rubbish. Secondly - anti skate has no effect on turntables tracking at over 3 grams (even though for some bizarre reason the Continentals had anti skate - the only jukebox to ever have it I think). Probably an experiment. Maybe the tone arm bearing is stiff, and the lower compliance of your older cartridge is coping with it, but the higher compliance NP/AC is struggling. Remember the end of record trip switch will be exerting a force pushing the arm outwards from 3/4 of the way through the song to the end. May be a good idea to adjust this out of the way while you are messing. If the needle is getting compressed into its shell, that is TOO much tracking, and your problem is elsewhere. That arm will happily track at 4.5 grams. Don't go too light, it will wear your records as much as too heavy. Nige, UK -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Heverin Sent: 09 February 2009 04:17 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited Ron, The mech is floating freely. Just to be sure, I turned the amp down in an earlier test to see if it was the volume that was causing the bounce. It's not. I don't have the tone-arm tracking very heavy. I don't have a gram scale or a tone-arm weight scale to know the tracking pressure for sure, but what I am trying to achieve is a lighter touch so that the needle itself doesn't get compressed too much into its case. Dave...I always thought that the anti-skate function of a tone-arm was to adjust the left/right pressure on the stylus. To far left or right would allow for certain distortions as the needle tracked in the groove. On my Techincs, it's very obvious that if the anti-skating is off, the needle sounds as if it's trying to climb out of the grooves of a record on particular passages in the music. Wouldn't this be a similar situation? Everyone who's ever examined a record up close can see that on very deep (bass) passages, the grooves are spread further apart . Check out any 12" dance single from the disco era and you can see the pattern formed in the grooves of a continuous heavy beat. It's always been my understanding the if the anti-skate is not set to match the weight (in grams) of the tone-arm, then the needle will try and climb out of those grooves. Regardless, are you saying, Ron, that I should try and track the NP/AC heavier? Wow. Any heavier and the needle shaft will be buried in its plastic housing. I checked the tone-arm wire too. It's not pushing the tone-arm in any direction. Regardless of where I place the tone-arm on an empty turntable...it won't move as if pushed by the wire. I found the perfect tone-arm wire too. Ever have a Pulse-Ox test done? If you ever have one done...see if you can save the cable that connects from your finger to the monitor. It's got a typical old style serial port plug on one side...and the sensor on the other. If you cut open the cable...there's several additional wires inside. One of the wires is a very tiny, two conductor wire surrounded by a copper braid. This cable is about a 1/16" in diameter and is perfect for a tone-arm. The way I have it mounted...it's not putting any lateral pressure on the tone-arm whatsoever. A. From aaron at vertasource.com Mon Feb 9 12:21:26 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Mon Feb 9 12:17:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited Message-ID: <200902091521556.SM03200@[192.168.1.206]> Thanks for the reply, Nigel. I'll take your questions one at a time: Couple of things - is the stylus in the NP/AC ok ? Even if new it could be duff. I had some new Genuine stantons and they were rubbish. *** I checked the stylus using a jeweler's loupe. Looks perfect. *** Maybe the tone arm bearing is stiff, and the lower compliance of your older cartridge is coping with it, but the higher compliance NP/AC is struggling. *** I checked that when Ron brought it up earlier. There's no side to side wobble of the tone-arm, and it pivots up and down with no resistance at all. However, the set down screw may need to be adjusted since I was going by the manual's specs on how far down the needle has to be below the turntable in order to be in compliance. I already made this adjustment...but I feel that more may be necessary. *** Remember the end of record trip switch will be exerting a force pushing the arm outwards from 3/4 of the way through the song to the end. May be a good idea to adjust this out of the way while you are messing. *** I actually had an issue with the trip switch way before I made the modifications to the tone-arm/cartridge. Turns out that it was so dirty that no amount of pressure would get it to trip. It's been fixed and adjusted so that the slightest touch by the tone-arm will trip the switch. Of course, if there was an issue with the trip-switch...or even the tone-arm wire being too stiff... I would imagine that the condition would be that the needle would skip back rather than jump forward. I don't know if I pointed that out and I'm sorry if I didn't. On heavy beats, the needle/tone-arm jumps forward one groove. It does not skip back and repeat the same passage over and over again. *** If the needle is getting compressed into its shell, that is TOO much tracking, and your problem is elsewhere. That arm will happily track at 4.5 grams. Don't go too light, it will wear your records as much as too heavy. *** This I'm going to have to check and recheck. There's just a slight compression going on of the needle... but that in itself may be a bit too light. My eyesight isn't the greatest any more on seeing things close up so I may have to corner my son to watch the needle and report in. Aaron From david_breneman at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 12:30:08 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Mon Feb 9 12:31:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G Revisited In-Reply-To: <200902082316104.SM01092@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <396052.6730.qm@web42105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Aaron Heverin wrote: > Dave...I always thought that the anti-skate function of a > tone-arm was to > adjust the left/right pressure on the stylus. To far left > or right would > allow for certain distortions as the needle tracked in the > groove. That's true, but unless the anti-skating device itself is severely misadjusted, it will not *cause* the stylus to skip. The skating force is created my the movement of the record under the stylus which is attached to a pivot point (of the tone arm) that is off-axis. It's awfully hard to discuss without visual aids, but if you consider a typical tonearm, the point at which the stylus contacts the record is off-axis from the pivot point of the tonearm. Therefore, the moving record surface under the stylus will pull the tonearm in its direction of travel in relationship to the intersection of a vertical line intersecting the pivot point of the tone arm, and one crossing the center of the record, intersecting at a 90 degree angle. See, pretty tough to explain without pictures... :-) A straight tone arm, mounted at a point behind the turntable half way between the center and edge of the record, will generate the least skating force, but it will have the most variability in tracking angle. And angled or curved tonearm, which places the stylus off-axis to the pivot point of the tone arm, will have less tracking error, but at the cost of introducing noticable skating forces. From jtjalsma at home.nl Mon Feb 9 12:45:38 2009 From: jtjalsma at home.nl (Jurjen Tjalsma) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:05:41 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] HF100R not resetting selection levers properly Message-ID: <499095F2.8000707@home.nl> Hi all, just a few questions about a HF100R I'm working on. The machine isn't resetting it's selection levers properly. It occurs randomly; no specific selections. After playing a record two, sometimes three times, the selection lever is reset. The WSR supplies the 25V, the pinbank is thoroughly cleaned (taken apart) and the pins within the cancel coils move freely. The contactblock is ligned up ok. The circuit through the reversing switch is ok. Unfortunately, my manual has a blank page where the adjustment of the cam switch should be. These switches in front of the carriage have also a part in the resetting of the pins. Can anyone help me determining which blades of the stack is involved in the resetting? Is there a way to give the cancel coils slightly more time to reset the pins? Thanks in advance, Jurjen Tjalsma (Netherlands) From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 13:09:59 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:11:09 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: Magnetic Cartridge in the AMI F/G revisited Message-ID: Most tonearms want to be dragged towards the center of a record while playing. It's the geometry. Anti-skating pulls outward on the tonearm gently to counteract this effect. Over or under 3 grams isn't an issue. In fact, sometimes the heavier, the faster it'll want to get sucked in (try it with the stylus removed and watch that thing go). A cartridge with too high of a compliance probably won't work well in an AMI F/G. Do try oiling the bearing the tonearm rests on. Also, the cartridge wiring may be stiff making lateral forces on the arm where it comes out the back. The NP/AC (AKA the Stanton 500 series) is a lighter cartridge than what was in it, so the tonearm may be too light now. I would think it should work in that arm. It's designed for heavy duty/DJ work. As stated, that arm will track fine even as light as around 4 grams, even with the original GE cartridge (rubber shanks removed from stylus assembly - greater compliance, and at the lighter weight, doesn't need the support). Mine does. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From stamann at jukebox-world.de Mon Feb 9 13:24:58 2009 From: stamann at jukebox-world.de (Stamann) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:26:36 2009 Subject: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Message-ID: Hello Mr. Ashcroft, depending on your version of the Festival ES160 you'd need the ES or ES II manual plus parts list plus equivalent schematics. Unfortunately it is not said on the ID plate of the jukebox if it's ES or ES II. Please let us know which kind of combination are you using to make a selection - e.g. 29B (ES technic) or 123 (ES II). Also to know which cartridge is used (Shure, Ortofon) is needed to look for the right documents. Kind regards - Hildegard Stamann ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Stamann Musikboxen - Schafskamp 2 - D-27243 Klein Henstedt - www.jukebox-world.de - stamann@jukebox-world.de Tel: (++49) 04224/264, Fax: (++49) 04224-1348, Ust.Id: DE 249241577 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von LAWRENCE ASHCROFT Gesendet: Montag, 9. Februar 2009 17:31 An: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Betreff: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Hi all i am after a service manual for a NSM Festival 160es jukebox or a photo copy .any one know were i can get one. Laurie ash. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 13:25:56 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:27:05 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: 1970s Rock Ola 160 mech record retainer strap Message-ID: Len, I could spend weeks just looking for something like a shipping strap. I thought of that, too. Might as well just do it right once. Not my jukebox, so I don't mind buying the part ;-) Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco ----------------------- I'm a great believer in improvising when I can't find things. I would make one using piece of metal strapping, the kind used to strap boxes to a crate etc. All you have to do is cut to length and drill holes. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009 From recordhound at verizon.net Mon Feb 9 12:52:03 2009 From: recordhound at verizon.net (Jimmy Day) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:54:51 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] print software revisited Message-ID: <3C2C5B61D7204997867CEEAD71A02F49@screwylo> Well - guess I shouldda said "negative printing". That's what I actually need to do; after much searching, found a photoshop-type program with this feature. I have a free trial for 14 more days. Better git r done, as they say. As for Kyle and the basket strap; if you don't come up with one, I would try the strapping bands used in shipping. They "used" to be metal but now they are using some sort of very tough plastic. A bit of "creative excess-resource allocation and re-assignment" (dumpster-diving) should yield some, at a construction site or whatnot. I'll post me results with the graphics, thanks for the replies! *jimmy the graphically challenged From lawrenceashcroft at btinternet.com Mon Feb 9 13:57:04 2009 From: lawrenceashcroft at btinternet.com (LAWRENCE ASHCROFT) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:58:14 2009 Subject: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <409477.87998.qm@web87103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi I beleve it is a ESII not sure what you mean about the cartridge though. Laurie. --- On Mon, 9/2/09, Stamann wrote: From: Stamann Subject: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 9:24 PM Hello Mr. Ashcroft, depending on your version of the Festival ES160 you'd need the ES or ES II manual plus parts list plus equivalent schematics. Unfortunately it is not said on the ID plate of the jukebox if it's ES or ES II. Please let us know which kind of combination are you using to make a selection - e.g. 29B (ES technic) or 123 (ES II). Also to know which cartridge is used (Shure, Ortofon) is needed to look for the right documents. Kind regards - Hildegard Stamann ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Stamann Musikboxen - Schafskamp 2 - D-27243 Klein Henstedt - www.jukebox-world.de - stamann@jukebox-world.de Tel: (++49) 04224/264, Fax: (++49) 04224-1348, Ust.Id: DE 249241577 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von LAWRENCE ASHCROFT Gesendet: Montag, 9. Februar 2009 17:31 An: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Betreff: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Hi all i am after a service manual for a NSM Festival 160es jukebox or a photo copy .any one know were i can get one. Laurie ash. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From lawrenceashcroft at btinternet.com Mon Feb 9 14:11:42 2009 From: lawrenceashcroft at btinternet.com (LAWRENCE ASHCROFT) Date: Mon Feb 9 14:12:52 2009 Subject: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual In-Reply-To: <409477.87998.qm@web87103.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <612806.10443.qm@web87102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> also found on plate ES-ST dont know if this helps. Laurie. --- On Mon, 9/2/09, LAWRENCE ASHCROFT wrote: From: LAWRENCE ASHCROFT Subject: Re: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 9:57 PM Hi I beleve it is a ESII not sure what you mean about the cartridge though. Laurie. --- On Mon, 9/2/09, Stamann wrote: From: Stamann Subject: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 9:24 PM Hello Mr. Ashcroft, depending on your version of the Festival ES160 you'd need the ES or ES II manual plus parts list plus equivalent schematics. Unfortunately it is not said on the ID plate of the jukebox if it's ES or ES II. Please let us know which kind of combination are you using to make a selection - e.g. 29B (ES technic) or 123 (ES II). Also to know which cartridge is used (Shure, Ortofon) is needed to look for the right documents. Kind regards - Hildegard Stamann ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Stamann Musikboxen - Schafskamp 2 - D-27243 Klein Henstedt - www.jukebox-world.de - stamann@jukebox-world.de Tel: (++49) 04224/264, Fax: (++49) 04224-1348, Ust.Id: DE 249241577 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von LAWRENCE ASHCROFT Gesendet: Montag, 9. Februar 2009 17:31 An: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Betreff: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Hi all i am after a service manual for a NSM Festival 160es jukebox or a photo copy .any one know were i can get one. Laurie ash. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From stamann at jukebox-world.de Mon Feb 9 14:16:54 2009 From: stamann at jukebox-world.de (Stamann) Date: Mon Feb 9 14:19:35 2009 Subject: AW: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Message-ID: You need to check if a Shure 17CM (up until 1983/84) or a Ortofon cartridge (1984 and up) is installed in your jukebox. On this site you'll find the cartridges NSM used in their models - maybe it helps to identify the one in your Festival ES160. http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/NSM-Systeme.htm ES-ST means stereo version if I know right. Regards - Hildegard -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von LAWRENCE ASHCROFT Gesendet: Montag, 9. Februar 2009 23:01 An: Jukebox mailing list Betreff: Re: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Hi I beleve it is a ESII not sure what you mean about the cartridge though. Laurie. --- On Mon, 9/2/09, Stamann wrote: From: Stamann Subject: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 9:24 PM Hello Mr. Ashcroft, depending on your version of the Festival ES160 you'd need the ES or ES II manual plus parts list plus equivalent schematics. Unfortunately it is not said on the ID plate of the jukebox if it's ES or ES II. Please let us know which kind of combination are you using to make a selection - e.g. 29B (ES technic) or 123 (ES II). Also to know which cartridge is used (Shure, Ortofon) is needed to look for the right documents. Kind regards - Hildegard Stamann ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Stamann Musikboxen - Schafskamp 2 - D-27243 Klein Henstedt - www.jukebox-world.de - stamann@jukebox-world.de Tel: (++49) 04224/264, Fax: (++49) 04224-1348, Ust.Id: DE 249241577 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von LAWRENCE ASHCROFT Gesendet: Montag, 9. Februar 2009 17:31 An: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Betreff: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Hi all i am after a service manual for a NSM Festival 160es jukebox or a photo copy .any one know were i can get one. Laurie ash. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 14:27:49 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 9 14:28:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] HF100R not resetting selection levers properly In-Reply-To: <499095F2.8000707@home.nl> Message-ID: <667529.5838.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jurgen, That would be, counting from the top down, blades 5-6-7.? Adjustment is on page 2172 of the manual. , but basically all 4 contact points must make at the same time--then blade #?6 must be lifted off blade #5, 1/64th of an inch--be 100% sure to check this adjustment "in both motor?directions". I also add a 1/4 amp slo blow fuse?in series with?the wire going to blade # 6, to protect the cancel coils. Cam shaft MUST be oiled, and clutch release lever MUST be going?ALL the way down into the play notch, prior to adjusting the above contacts. Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Jurjen Tjalsma wrote: From: Jurjen Tjalsma Subject: [Jukebox-list] HF100R not resetting selection levers properly To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 12:45 PM Hi all, just a few questions about a HF100R I'm working on. The machine isn't resetting it's selection levers properly. It occurs randomly; no specific selections. After playing a record two, sometimes three times, the selection lever is reset. The WSR supplies the 25V, the pinbank is thoroughly cleaned (taken apart) and the pins within the cancel coils move freely. The contactblock is ligned up ok. The circuit through the reversing switch is ok. Unfortunately, my manual has a blank page where the adjustment of the cam switch should be.. These switches in front of the carriage have also a part in the resetting of the pins. Can anyone help me determining which blades of the stack is involved in the resetting? Is there a way to give the cancel coils slightly more time to reset the pins? Thanks in advance, Jurjen Tjalsma (Netherlands) _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From lawrenceashcroft at btinternet.com Mon Feb 9 14:25:51 2009 From: lawrenceashcroft at btinternet.com (LAWRENCE ASHCROFT) Date: Mon Feb 9 14:33:43 2009 Subject: AW: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39140.18125.qm@web87110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Yes your right its a Shure 17cm --- On Mon, 9/2/09, Stamann wrote: From: Stamann Subject: AW: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 10:16 PM You need to check if a Shure 17CM (up until 1983/84) or a Ortofon cartridge (1984 and up) is installed in your jukebox. On this site you'll find the cartridges NSM used in their models - maybe it helps to identify the one in your Festival ES160. http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/NSM-Systeme.htm ES-ST means stereo version if I know right. Regards - Hildegard -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von LAWRENCE ASHCROFT Gesendet: Montag, 9. Februar 2009 23:01 An: Jukebox mailing list Betreff: Re: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Hi I beleve it is a ESII not sure what you mean about the cartridge though. Laurie. --- On Mon, 9/2/09, Stamann wrote: From: Stamann Subject: AW: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 9:24 PM Hello Mr. Ashcroft, depending on your version of the Festival ES160 you'd need the ES or ES II manual plus parts list plus equivalent schematics. Unfortunately it is not said on the ID plate of the jukebox if it's ES or ES II. Please let us know which kind of combination are you using to make a selection - e.g. 29B (ES technic) or 123 (ES II). Also to know which cartridge is used (Shure, Ortofon) is needed to look for the right documents. Kind regards - Hildegard Stamann ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Stamann Musikboxen - Schafskamp 2 - D-27243 Klein Henstedt - www.jukebox-world.de - stamann@jukebox-world.de Tel: (++49) 04224/264, Fax: (++49) 04224-1348, Ust.Id: DE 249241577 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von LAWRENCE ASHCROFT Gesendet: Montag, 9. Februar 2009 17:31 An: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Betreff: [Jukebox-list] NSM JUKEBOX Service Manual Hi all i am after a service manual for a NSM Festival 160es jukebox or a photo copy .any one know were i can get one. Laurie ash. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jeremy at dwave.net Mon Feb 9 15:26:38 2009 From: jeremy at dwave.net (Jeremy Agema) Date: Mon Feb 9 15:27:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 1970s Rock Ola 160 mech record retainer strap In-Reply-To: References: <20090202200003.8BF39AAEEC@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: <20090209232611.M81059@dwave.net> Kyle, I have a strap, I will email you off list. Jeremy Agema On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:03:19 -0800, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote > Well, I got back into jukes today. > Went quite a way to get a RO 468 going. Typical frozen transfer arm > and general maintenance. > > It feels good to be reading the list and having my hands in again. > > Anyone have a junk Rock Ola Mechanism around? > I could use the thin metal strap that holds the records in the > magazine when they're going around the bottom half. Looks like > someone removed it to get their records out. A couple records were > left on either side, but all gone from the top and bottom. I even > found the screws that hold it in. Well, 2 of them. looks like maybe > 4 are used. > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > > _________________________________________________________________ [WINDOWS-1252?]> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. > http://windowslive.com/explore? ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009____________________________________ ___________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From rjpope at sbcglobal.net Mon Feb 9 16:09:54 2009 From: rjpope at sbcglobal.net (Rodney J Pope) Date: Mon Feb 9 16:11:02 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 In-Reply-To: <004401c98a5f$d7c5a3f0$8750ebd0$@net> Message-ID: <577270.16895.qm@web82603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ron and Rich, Further follow up shows that the problem is on all banks. If you select A-1-2-3-4-5-6 A2 plays, this is the same with B-C ect. According to the manual this could be caused by Electric selector not being in adjustment. Does this sound right, and if so any tips before I try to follow the guidelines in the manual to adjust it? Thanks for your help in advance. Rod --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 6:40 PM Hey Ron and Rod..... I had a similar issue when troubleshooting the 2710 selector. I am not sure if the 2400 selector has three pairs of contacts for each key like the 2700 series does....one pair when at rest and the second set of contacts when a selection is made. Here is a quote from Harold Hagen that he sent me that made sense of the selectors and plate. In this quote Harold was referencing my issue with not getting any selection with the number 1 to pop a pin.....but this might come in handy. Rod, you might have to disassemble your selector and check to make sure the little tabs in the sliders are not bent or broken and check continuity across them. QUOTE: "It sounds like a selector switch problem. The second row of terminals operate the plate that rotates in the selector assembly. There are no wires to the #3 and 8 positions (the plate doesn't rotate for these numbers). This obviously isn't your problem as a bad contact in the #1 switch would just play #3. The third and fourth rows determine which letter solenoids get fired. The fifth and sixth rows actually do cycling of the selection circuitry. If it cycles (the buttons latch, then pop out in a second or two), but it doesn't punch a pin, then it's probably the fourth row contact. If it doesn't go through the selection cycle, then it's probably a rear row contact. If you have a broken slider contact, then you'd probably be best off to find a replacement assembly. Harold" Hope this might help. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 6:33 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 Rod, Been a thinkin on this one for awhile---Somehow, it makes no sense. Is it possible that more troubleshooting is needed, to refine the symptoms further? Try the following---Place the "record load" switch in the "load" position, and select the non-working selections one at a time. Observe the "electrical selector" and see if the proper pin is being released for each selection. If that's the case, I would think maybe that the selector was not properly aligned. Does it play the even "A's"? properly? (A-2/4/6--0) ? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Rodney J Pope wrote: From: Rodney J Pope Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 1:12 PM James and Ron, Thanks for the help, that did the fix. One more issue if you can help? When selecting certain letter/numbers such as E1-E3-E5 all play E3. This is occurring on the A-E-and F selections. Thanks for any help you can provide in advance. Rod Pope --- On Sat, 2/7/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2400 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 8:13 PM Hello Rodney: This is usually due to a lack of lubrication within the turntable mech itself. The telescoping mechanism and the turntable bosses (the 45 spindle fingers that "grab" the record) will seize up. The fix involves removing the plexiglas record guide (3 philips screws) in front of the turntable and injecting oil into the turntable interior. Oil should be injected into the rear center of the flywheel as well. When I 've done this, I have sprayed WD-40 into sticking mechanisms, followed by a 10 or 20 weight motor oil. The WD-40 alone is not a long-term lubricant. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and find discounts on certified diamond jewelry. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAL1F77oBahdiIygAcBnscdy Hb7t5W9jqggQk5BP6TTq1pfQ/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 08:50:36 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 10 08:58:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 In-Reply-To: <577270.16895.qm@web82603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <372089.17628.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rod, At this point, in order to "pin down" the problem,?you must "split" the selection system into two parts--the part that "releases a pin" (often called "write-in"--especially in Seeburgs), and the part that searches for the released pin (called "read-out" in 'bergs"). To do that, do what I wrote before--set the "load" switch to load, and make selections from the "keyboard".. You MUST determine if the keyboard / electrical selector is at fault, or the "search/stop" section is at fault. To do so, merely read the released pin number(s) on the ES. If the correct pins are being "pulled", then the problem is in the second half of the system. Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/9/09, Rodney J Pope wrote: From: Rodney J Pope Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 4:09 PM Ron and Rich, Further follow up shows that the problem is on all banks. If you select A-1-2-3-4-5-6 A2 plays, this is the same with B-C ect. According to the manual this could be caused by Electric selector not being in adjustment. Does this sound right, and if so any tips before I try to follow the guidelines in the manual to adjust it? Thanks for your help in advance. Rod --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 6:40 PM Hey Ron and Rod..... I had a similar issue when troubleshooting the 2710 selector. I am not sure if the 2400 selector has three pairs of contacts for each key like the 2700 series does....one pair when at rest and the second set of contacts when a selection is made. Here is a quote from Harold Hagen that he sent me that made sense of the selectors and plate. In this quote Harold was referencing my issue with not getting any selection with the number 1 to pop a pin.....but this might come in handy. Rod, you might have to disassemble your selector and check to make sure the little tabs in the sliders are not bent or broken and check continuity across them. QUOTE: "It sounds like a selector switch problem. The second row of terminals operate the plate that rotates in the selector assembly. There are no wires to the #3 and 8 positions (the plate doesn't rotate for these numbers). This obviously isn't your problem as a bad contact in the #1 switch would just play #3. The third and fourth rows determine which letter solenoids get fired. The fifth and sixth rows actually do cycling of the selection circuitry. If it cycles (the buttons latch, then pop out in a second or two), but it doesn't punch a pin, then it's probably the fourth row contact. If it doesn't go through the selection cycle, then it's probably a rear row contact. If you have a broken slider contact, then you'd probably be best off to find a replacement assembly. Harold" Hope this might help. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 6:33 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 Rod, Been a thinkin on this one for awhile---Somehow, it makes no sense. Is it possible that more troubleshooting is needed, to refine the symptoms further? Try the following---Place the "record load" switch in the "load" position, and select the non-working selections one at a time. Observe the "electrical selector" and see if the proper pin is being released for each selection. If that's the case, I would think maybe that the selector was not properly aligned. Does it play the even "A's"? properly? (A-2/4/6--0) ? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Rodney J Pope wrote: From: Rodney J Pope Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzler 2400 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 1:12 PM James and Ron, Thanks for the help, that did the fix. One more issue if you can help? When selecting certain letter/numbers such as E1-E3-E5 all play E3. This is occurring on the A-E-and F selections. Thanks for any help you can provide in advance. Rod Pope --- On Sat, 2/7/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2400 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 8:13 PM Hello Rodney: This is usually due to a lack of lubrication within the turntable mech itself. The telescoping mechanism and the turntable bosses (the 45 spindle fingers that "grab" the record) will seize up. The fix involves removing the plexiglas record guide (3 philips screws) in front of the turntable and injecting oil into the turntable interior. Oil should be injected into the rear center of the flywheel as well. When I 've done this, I have sprayed WD-40 into sticking mechanisms, followed by a 10 or 20 weight motor oil. The WD-40 alone is not a long-term lubricant. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and find discounts on certified diamond jewelry. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAL1F77oBahdiIygAcBnscdy Hb7t5W9jqggQk5BP6TTq1pfQ/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: 2/5/2009 11:34 AM _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jrutoskey at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 13:41:25 2009 From: jrutoskey at yahoo.com (Automatic Music) Date: Tue Feb 10 13:49:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg SMC-1 technician needed in Chicago Message-ID: <634175.82710.qm@web110807.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I have a request from a young?lady in Chicago for repairs to her Seeburg SMC-1. I don't think it's anything too serious, as it's evidently been working in her house for years. I assume it's the usual computer problems, lubrication and amp stuff. If anyone?is interested in?helping this gal?out in Chicago please drop me a note at jrutoskey@yahoo.com . ? Regards, John From recordhound at verizon.net Wed Feb 11 18:33:43 2009 From: recordhound at verizon.net (Jimmy Day) Date: Wed Feb 11 18:34:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V Message-ID: <3E2657A101584204932EFDA41B76A831@screwylo> This is enough to make even a Wurlitzer lover cry... http://cgi.ebay.com/1955-Seeburg-V-200-N-200-Selection-Jukebox-Slant-Glass_W0QQitemZ250368643087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item250368643087&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 From pinball at telus.net Wed Feb 11 18:58:28 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Wed Feb 11 18:59:37 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <3E2657A101584204932EFDA41B76A831@screwylo> References: <3E2657A101584204932EFDA41B76A831@screwylo> Message-ID: <49939054.6000003@telus.net> Jimmy Day wrote: > > This is enough to make even a Wurlitzer lover cry... > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/1955-Seeburg-V-200-N-200-Selection-Jukebox-Slant-Glass_W0QQitemZ250368643087 There was a kit put out by WICO (and others) back in the 60s that would 'modernize' your nasty old V-200 to the new style of jukeboxes! Unfortunately they sold a lot of these kits... I should post a few of those pages on flippers to really scar/scare folks! John :-#(# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From jeremy at dwave.net Wed Feb 11 20:46:16 2009 From: jeremy at dwave.net (Jeremy Agema) Date: Wed Feb 11 20:47:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <49939054.6000003@telus.net> References: <3E2657A101584204932EFDA41B76A831@screwylo> <49939054.6000003@telus.net> Message-ID: <20090212044120.M93179@dwave.net> I think posting those photos on your site is a great idea John. I spotted a add for a similar hacked up box and checked around for such a photo to reference(no luck), I was curious who made the kit. I think it could be a great resource for us. Thanks for the auction link. That grill is something else! Jeremy Agema On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:58:28 -0800, John Robertson wrote > Jimmy Day wrote: > > > > This is enough to make even a Wurlitzer lover cry... > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/1955-Seeburg-V-200-N-200-Selection-Jukebox-Slant- Glass_W0QQitemZ250368643087 > There was a kit put out by WICO (and others) back in the 60s that > would 'modernize' your nasty old V-200 to the new style of > jukeboxes! Unfortunately they sold a lot of these kits... > > I should post a few of those pages on flippers to really scar/scare folks! > > John :-#(# > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) > www.flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Wed Feb 11 21:31:41 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 11 21:33:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V Message-ID: <20090212.003141.8888.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> I've seen a few of these around in the midwest, although the cabinet trim seemed a little different. I believe that an aftermarket parts supplier to vending companies (could be Wico) brought this cabinet kit out around 1963-64. In commercial settings, the "new" 60's jukeboxes took up a smaller footprint in restaurants and bars. This was an attempt to give Seeburg V200 jukes a second commercial cycle by getting rid of their "dated", imposing appearance. These look they are styled along the lines of a Wurl 2700-2800. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8VZ7MmFjHHgmOyiTW8ugxiktIBcF2rtLZYC0IQsYmXyCOPE/ From 19k20 at comcast.net Wed Feb 11 21:33:21 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Wed Feb 11 21:34:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <3E2657A101584204932EFDA41B76A831@screwylo> References: <3E2657A101584204932EFDA41B76A831@screwylo> Message-ID: <001701c98cd3$6ba95f60$42fc1e20$@net> I'm no expert....but what exactly about this machine would make me cry......? Is this a parts box or is there really something desirable about it? Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Day Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:34 PM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V This is enough to make even a Wurlitzer lover cry... http://cgi.ebay.com/1955-Seeburg-V-200-N-200-Selection-Jukebox-Slant-Glass_W 0QQitemZ250368643087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item250368643087&_trks id=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 %7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1944 - Release Date: 02/10/09 17:44:00 From 19k20 at comcast.net Thu Feb 12 04:33:45 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Thu Feb 12 04:35:00 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <001701c98cd3$6ba95f60$42fc1e20$@net> References: <3E2657A101584204932EFDA41B76A831@screwylo> <001701c98cd3$6ba95f60$42fc1e20$@net> Message-ID: <000001c98d0e$265eb7d0$731c2770$@net> Just being facetious in my previous post. I took the "cry" comment in a completely different context. Now I think I get it. I think this machine would make me cry. Like Jim said, it looks like the third party cabinet vendor tried to emulate the MIGHTY Wurlitzer.......lol Long live Wurlitzer.... -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ssg Rich Myers Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:33 PM To: 'Jukebox mailing list' Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V I'm no expert....but what exactly about this machine would make me cry......? Is this a parts box or is there really something desirable about it? Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Day Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:34 PM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V This is enough to make even a Wurlitzer lover cry... http://cgi.ebay.com/1955-Seeburg-V-200-N-200-Selection-Jukebox-Slant-Glass_W 0QQitemZ250368643087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item250368643087&_trks id=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 %7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1944 - Release Date: 02/10/09 17:44:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1944 - Release Date: 02/10/09 17:44:00 From steve at pro-ns.net Thu Feb 12 08:15:17 2009 From: steve at pro-ns.net (Steve Wahl) Date: Thu Feb 12 08:16:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <001701c98cd3$6ba95f60$42fc1e20$@net> References: <3E2657A101584204932EFDA41B76A831@screwylo> <001701c98cd3$6ba95f60$42fc1e20$@net> Message-ID: <20090212161517.GR13974@pro-ns.net> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:33:21PM -0600, Ssg Rich Myers wrote: > I'm no expert....but what exactly about this machine would make me > cry......? Is this a parts box or is there really something desirable about > it? Where to start? The V and VL are considered pretty close to the top of the list of "most collectible" jukeboxes, at least of the ones that played 45s. This one was chopped up to make something else that pretty much nobody cares about (the seller even knows this, you get that from what he wrote). The rotating title strip drum was problematic for route owners, but also one of the more attractive features from a collectors point of view. Working or not, it was removed and sent to the dump for this modification. There is a pretty famous picture from the 30's or 40's of a manufacturer chopping up older jukeboxes; I think it was wurlitzer. They did this to the jukeboxes that were traded in on newer models, so that their customers, the route owners that bought new jukeboxes, would know that the old jukes wouldn't end up sold at a bargain price to their local competitor. Brings pretty much the same feeling to mind. --> Steve -- Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net Real men don't take backups, they just "mv home.tar.gz olsen_twins_hottub.mpg" and share it on KaZaA -- Unknown From david_breneman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 09:40:19 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Thu Feb 12 09:41:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <20090212161517.GR13974@pro-ns.net> Message-ID: <678105.62378.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Steve Wahl wrote: > There is a pretty famous picture from the 30's or > 40's of a > manufacturer chopping up older jukeboxes; I think it was > wurlitzer. > They did this to the jukeboxes that were traded in on newer > models, so > that their customers, the route owners that bought new > jukeboxes, > would know that the old jukes wouldn't end up sold at a > bargain price > to their local competitor. Brings pretty much the same > feeling to mind. There's a photo montage reprinted in "Jukebox Saturday Night" that shows a jukebox operator, depicted as a real "big shot" delivering a new Wurlitzer jukebox to a fancy restaurant. Then he watches as his employee takes that restaurant's former machine and delivers it to a local cafe. Finally, that cafe's old machine is placed in a frousy little beanery, all under the imperial gaze of the operator, as that location's old non- lightup box is handtrucked out the door. Final shot is the "obsolete" machines being smashed by a guy with a sledgehammer. Wurlitzer's message: Once you've run a machine down the location food chain, it won't be showing up in competition against you when you trade it in. From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Thu Feb 12 09:52:25 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Thu Feb 12 10:09:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <678105.62378.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20090212161517.GR13974@pro-ns.net> <678105.62378.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I know the photos you're referring to David. Quite interesting, and what a shame they smashed up those Wurlitzers. The operators used to also remove all the coin equipment from the old boxes. My W500 had it removed, and it took me 17 years to find replacement parts. That's why coin equipment for the Golden Age machines is so valuable. Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of David Breneman Sent: 2009, February, 12 12:40 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Steve Wahl wrote: > There is a pretty famous picture from the 30's or 40's of a > manufacturer chopping up older jukeboxes; I think it was wurlitzer. > They did this to the jukeboxes that were traded in on newer models, so > that their customers, the route owners that bought new jukeboxes, > would know that the old jukes wouldn't end up sold at a bargain price > to their local competitor. Brings pretty much the same feeling to > mind. There's a photo montage reprinted in "Jukebox Saturday Night" that shows a jukebox operator, depicted as a real "big shot" delivering a new Wurlitzer jukebox to a fancy restaurant. Then he watches as his employee takes that restaurant's former machine and delivers it to a local cafe. Finally, that cafe's old machine is placed in a frousy little beanery, all under the imperial gaze of the operator, as that location's old non- lightup box is handtrucked out the door. Final shot is the "obsolete" machines being smashed by a guy with a sledgehammer. Wurlitzer's message: Once you've run a machine down the location food chain, it won't be showing up in competition against you when you trade it in. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From steve at pro-ns.net Thu Feb 12 11:01:54 2009 From: steve at pro-ns.net (Steve Wahl) Date: Thu Feb 12 11:03:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: References: <20090212161517.GR13974@pro-ns.net> <678105.62378.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090212190154.GT13974@pro-ns.net> I assume that's why there's a lot of missing coin box doors, too? --> Steve On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 12:52:25PM -0500, Dicecco, Michael wrote: > I know the photos you're referring to David. Quite interesting, and what > a shame they smashed up those Wurlitzers. > > The operators used to also remove all the coin equipment from the old > boxes. My W500 had it removed, and it took me 17 years to find > replacement parts. That's why coin equipment for the Golden Age machines > is so valuable. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of David > Breneman > Sent: 2009, February, 12 12:40 PM > To: Jukebox mailing list > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V > > --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Steve Wahl wrote: > > > > There is a pretty famous picture from the 30's or 40's of a > > manufacturer chopping up older jukeboxes; I think it was wurlitzer. > > They did this to the jukeboxes that were traded in on newer models, so > > > that their customers, the route owners that bought new jukeboxes, > > would know that the old jukes wouldn't end up sold at a bargain price > > to their local competitor. Brings pretty much the same feeling to > > mind. > > There's a photo montage reprinted in "Jukebox Saturday Night" > that shows a jukebox operator, depicted as a real "big shot" > delivering a new Wurlitzer jukebox to a fancy restaurant. > Then he watches as his employee takes that restaurant's former machine > and delivers it to a local cafe. Finally, that cafe's old machine is > placed in a frousy little beanery, all under the imperial gaze of the > operator, as that location's old non- lightup box is handtrucked out the > door. Final shot is the "obsolete" machines being smashed by a guy with > a sledgehammer. > Wurlitzer's message: Once you've run a machine down the location food > chain, it won't be showing up in competition against you when you trade > it in. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________________________________ > > This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. > Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. > If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. > > Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. > Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. > Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -- Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net If it's not stuck and it's supposed to be, duct tape it. If it's stuck and it's not supposed to be, WD-40 it. If it's not broken--keep me away from it! -- eldavojohn on Slashdot From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 11:37:00 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Thu Feb 12 12:39:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list]Missing Coin Equ./Jeopardy-was- Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <20090212190154.GT13974@pro-ns.net> Message-ID: <345933.77447.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I have also heard--don't know if it's true, or not, that there was (is?) some "law" that required that any coin operated phono, when retired, must have it's coin equipment destroyed ? ----Did anyone watch "Jeopardy" last night, and catch the question about "jukeboxes" ?? I think, as I was not paying too much attention, that they said the word was "coined"? (no that's my word) in 1939 ? Wonder where they came up with that??? Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Steve Wahl wrote: From: Steve Wahl Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 11:01 AM I assume that's why there's a lot of missing coin box doors, too? --> Steve On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 12:52:25PM -0500, Dicecco, Michael wrote: > I know the photos you're referring to David. Quite interesting, and what > a shame they smashed up those Wurlitzers. > > The operators used to also remove all the coin equipment from the old > boxes. My W500 had it removed, and it took me 17 years to find > replacement parts. That's why coin equipment for the Golden Age machines > is so valuable. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of David > Breneman > Sent: 2009, February, 12 12:40 PM > To: Jukebox mailing list > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V > > --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Steve Wahl wrote: > > > > There is a pretty famous picture from the 30's or 40's of a > > manufacturer chopping up older jukeboxes; I think it was wurlitzer. > > They did this to the jukeboxes that were traded in on newer models, so > > > that their customers, the route owners that bought new jukeboxes, > > would know that the old jukes wouldn't end up sold at a bargain price > > to their local competitor. Brings pretty much the same feeling to > > mind. > > There's a photo montage reprinted in "Jukebox Saturday Night" > that shows a jukebox operator, depicted as a real "big shot" > delivering a new Wurlitzer jukebox to a fancy restaurant. > Then he watches as his employee takes that restaurant's former machine > and delivers it to a local cafe. Finally, that cafe's old machine is > placed in a frousy little beanery, all under the imperial gaze of the > operator, as that location's old non- lightup box is handtrucked out the > door. Final shot is the "obsolete" machines being smashed by a guy with > a sledgehammer. > Wurlitzer's message: Once you've run a machine down the location food > chain, it won't be showing up in competition against you when you trade > it in. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________________________________ > > This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. > Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. > If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. > > Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. > Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. > Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -- Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net If it's not stuck and it's supposed to be, duct tape it. If it's stuck and it's not supposed to be, WD-40 it. If it's not broken--keep me away from it! -- eldavojohn on Slashdot _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dwaw12 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 13:26:10 2009 From: dwaw12 at yahoo.com (david wendell) Date: Thu Feb 12 13:27:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass Message-ID: <548598.94786.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi All, Does anyone know if Steve Loots is running the annual 16% (or whatever) sale this year? Thanks DAvid Wendell (In The Geritol Ghetto) From joe400f at shaw.ca Thu Feb 12 13:41:30 2009 From: joe400f at shaw.ca (Joey McDonald) Date: Thu Feb 12 13:42:46 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass In-Reply-To: <548598.94786.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <548598.94786.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Why don't you ask him? If you subscribe to Alway's Jukin or Jukebox Collector magazine, they will run an ad with the promotion. Joey McDonald ----- Original Message ----- From: david wendell Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:27 pm Subject: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass To: jukebox list > Hi All, > > Does anyone know if Steve Loots is running the annual 16% (or > whatever) sale this year? Thanks > > DAvid Wendell (In The Geritol Ghetto) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From david_breneman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 13:42:14 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Thu Feb 12 13:43:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list]Missing Coin Equ./Jeopardy-was- Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <345933.77447.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <481721.27003.qm@web42101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Ron Rich wrote: > ----Did anyone watch "Jeopardy" last night, and > catch the question about "jukeboxes" ?? I think, > as I was not paying too much attention, that they said the > word was "coined"? (no that's my word) in > 1939 ? Wonder where they came up with that?? Webster's lists the word as entering common usage in 1939, but dictionaries are usually trailing indicators of emerging slang, and they base their decision as to whether a word is in common usage on when it appears in print. Glen Miller used the term in a 1939 interview with Time Magazine, which appears to be the first documented time it had appeared in the "respectable" press, so this Time article was probably where Webster's origin citation came from. (The Miller hit "Juke Box Saturday Night" came out in 1942.) It's doubtful, however, that Miller invented the term. :-) From dwaw12 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 15:02:18 2009 From: dwaw12 at yahoo.com (david wendell) Date: Thu Feb 12 15:03:27 2009 Subject: Fw: Re: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass Message-ID: <461533.82444.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Joey, Actually I did and Denny wanted to know what sale I was referring to unless it was for a large volume parts purchase (or something in that order). I have always posponed, when possible, larger parts orders, from VG, for years. It almost seemed tradition that the early part of the year they had an annual sale. I thought someone might have seen it in AJ. I have heard a rumor that JBC was no longer publishing. Would that be true? I dunno, I am just a confused Ghetto Dweller? David Wendell (Geritol Ghetto) --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Joey McDonald wrote: > From: Joey McDonald > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass > To: dwaw12@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 2:41 PM > Why don't you ask him? If you subscribe to Alway's > Jukin or Jukebox Collector magazine, they > will run an ad with the promotion. > > Joey McDonald > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: david wendell > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009 3:27 pm > Subject: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass > To: jukebox list > > > Hi All, > > > > Does anyone know if Steve Loots is running the annual > 16% (or > > whatever) sale this year? Thanks > > > > DAvid Wendell (In The Geritol Ghetto) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Jukebox-list mailing list > > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > From dwaw12 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 18:14:20 2009 From: dwaw12 at yahoo.com (david wendell) Date: Thu Feb 12 18:15:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass In-Reply-To: <868273.84738.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <369847.55105.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Joey and Ron, Actually I did and Denny wanted to know what sale I was referring to unless it was for a large volume parts purchase (or something in that order). I have always posponed, when possible, larger parts orders, from VG, for years. It almost seemed tradition that the early part of the year they had an annual sale. I thought someone might have seen it in AJ. I have heard a rumor that JBC was no longer publishing. Would that be true? I dunno, I am just a confused Ghetto Dweller? David Wendell (Geritol Ghetto) --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Ron Rich wrote: > From: Ron Rich > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass > To: dwaw12@yahoo.com > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 4:28 PM > Dave, > Why don't you axk Steve ??? Ron Rich > > --- On Thu, 2/12/09, david wendell > wrote: > > From: david wendell > Subject: [Jukebox-list] Victory Glass > To: "jukebox list" > > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 1:26 PM > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know if Steve Loots is running the annual 16% > (or whatever) sale > this year? Thanks > > DAvid Wendell (In The Geritol Ghetto) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Thu Feb 12 21:42:35 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Thu Feb 12 21:45:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V Message-ID: <20090213.004235.10657.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com> Rich: I think you might be missing a key point of this discussion thread---- The '55 Seeburg V200 was their flagship model of that era. The machine was boldly styled, large in size and was a real eyecatcher. It's become one of Seeburg's most collectible models. It's a bummer to see a V200 reconfigured into what was a "plain jane" 60's-style cabinet. It looks like a V200 in a straitjacket. In the early 60's the role of a jukebox (in a commercial application) underwent quite a change. In the 40's and 50's, the jukebox was considered to be both an audio and visual attraction for the room---hence, all the artwork,color changers,bubble tubes, visible mechs, etc. By the early 60's,pop-music listening tastes changed (people were looking more to album cuts for music, as opposed to a steady diet of hit singles) and the jukebox became a utility to the space---a pay-for-play background music system. Piped-in,subscribed music sources (like Muzak) became more popular. This probably fostered the console styled jukes like the Seeburg LPC-1 and Wurl. Americana series. The elaborate cabinetry and artwork was gone, where the mfrs.' put more resources/effort into improved tech capability. As an aside, bar and restaurant managers were unwilling to devote a lot of space (like they used to) to a floor model jukebox. Smaller footprint jukeboxes like the mid 60's Wurlitzers and RockOla Princess models became popular with restaurant staffers. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Fighting foot pain? Click now for the latest treatment options! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8hl7dWXPapa3aYTtOlsnymsdID4XID2mu0ycSbHa1co7SxA/ From dvachon at teksavvy.com Fri Feb 13 00:01:20 2009 From: dvachon at teksavvy.com (dvachon) Date: Fri Feb 13 00:17:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Jukebox Magazine Message-ID: Hi everyone, I am thinking of subscribing to a jukebox magazine. I would like to get your opinion on which magazine is better. Alway's Jukin or Jukebox Collector. I am interested in one that would have good tips and tricks for maintaining and repairing jukes. I have a Seeburg 100g, a Rock-ola 1493, a Seeburg 100 hideaway a Seeburg background music system, a Rowe Ami Jan and 2 3W1 wallboxes. I do have the manuals for all of them. Of course you can't beat this list, it is great! Thank you for sharing your great knowledge of jukes. I have learned a great deal over the past few years!! Doug From nmacrae23 at btinternet.com Fri Feb 13 02:01:59 2009 From: nmacrae23 at btinternet.com (NORMAN MACRAE) Date: Fri Feb 13 02:03:17 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Jukebox Magazine References: Message-ID: <644373.90309.qm@web86707.mail.ird.yahoo.com> You can?request a sample copy of "Always Jukin'" from the website.? I cannot help you with which is better as?I get only AJ.? As a "foreigner", I take the e-mail option.? It's probably fair to say that internet forums and on-line help sites probably hit these magazines' sales fairly hard so I'm sure that your subscription, whichever you choose, will be appreciated. Norman. ________________________________ From: dvachon To: jukebox list Sent: Friday, 13 February, 2009 8:01:20 AM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Jukebox Magazine Hi everyone, I am thinking of subscribing to a jukebox magazine. I would like to get your opinion on which magazine is better. Alway's Jukin or Jukebox Collector. I am interested in one that would have good tips and tricks for maintaining and repairing jukes. I have a Seeburg 100g, a Rock-ola 1493, a Seeburg 100 hideaway a Seeburg background music system, a Rowe Ami Jan and 2 3W1 wallboxes. I do have the manuals for all of them. Of course you can't beat this list, it is great! Thank you for sharing your great knowledge of jukes. I have learned a great deal over the past few years!! Doug _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 10:36:07 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:37:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Scam warning ? Message-ID: <945504.46919.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, The eBay listing 320 339 851 453, for a Seeburg SMC-1, MAY ba scam. It's been there twice, and I have emailed the guy, he responded with his phone number, and told me to call him "tomorrow afternoon". Well, I called the next afternoon and got an answering machine. I left my number--he did not call back, so I called the? next afternoon--got the same message, and left my number again--that's been a week--ainna heard nothin ?? Ron Rich From jugert at msn.com Fri Feb 13 10:50:06 2009 From: jugert at msn.com (jugert@msn.com) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:56:51 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Scam warning ? In-Reply-To: <945504.46919.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <945504.46919.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rich, I think your right. His feedback is 173 memeber since 99...but no feedback transaction are listed. I would stay away Don Jugert Colorful Colorado> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:36:07 -0800> From: ronnnrich@yahoo.com> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Subject: [Jukebox-list] Scam warning ?> > Hi All,> The eBay listing 320 339 851 453, for a Seeburg SMC-1, MAY ba scam. It's been there twice, and I have emailed the guy, he responded with his phone number, and told me to call him "tomorrow afternoon". Well, I called the next afternoon and got an answering machine. I left my number--he did not call back, so I called the next afternoon--got the same message, and left my number again--that's been a week--ainna heard nothin ?? Ron Rich> > > > _______________________________________________> Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jugert at msn.com Fri Feb 13 11:28:39 2009 From: jugert at msn.com (jugert@msn.com) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:29:51 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Scam warning ? In-Reply-To: References: <945504.46919.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ron Ok- I just checked his feedback again and it how shows? I am confused but that happens all the time. His feedback is all good. From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Fri Feb 13 11:51:11 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:52:23 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <20090212200004.00462AAEA6@lists.netlojix.com> References: <20090212200004.00462AAEA6@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: Despite what we think now, this was a fantastic way for operators to update their fleet of dependable Seeburg 200s and get way more operating life out of them. Although now considered classic, at the time, the V 200 soon became dated. A few of these around as a testament to what happened is a good thing. First and foremost, these were vending machines. Most A and many B locations demanded the latest equipment, and I'm betting many were fooled by these. We actually did something like this once. We had a good location with an AMI CD 100 A, then a CD100 E. When 18 months later he demanded a new one (and wasn't making quite what it needed to to warrant it), we gave him a hardly used CD 100 C that we'd pulled form elsewhere and after a cleanup and some new lighting colors created by me to match his location, looked brand new. I also tweeked up the EQ on it so it sounded really impressive. All he knew is that it was different and he was quite happy with it. It cost us all of about $25 for color gels/bulbs and my time to give it a good detailing. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From jay at west.net Fri Feb 13 11:52:10 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:53:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Scam warning ? In-Reply-To: References: <945504.46919.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4995CF6A.9070701@west.net> The feedback is all as a buyer, and somewhat old. So it could be a scam, a hijacked account. However, most of these scams are a more collectible juke or other antique at a higher price. I suspect the guy just hasn't been active on EBay for a while. There have been times when I've been inactive for a year or more. I think it's legit. As he's only offering local pickup, you could bid and pay cash when you pick it up, assuming you're in the area. Or see if you can inspect it before bidding. Was the phone number he gave you in the 831 area code? -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 12:42:03 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 13 12:43:15 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <348265.57665.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Kyle, Gotta BIG dis-agreement here !!? A Coin Operated Phonograph is NOT, nor never waz, ?a "Vending Machine" !? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote: From: Mechanical Music of S.F. Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 11:51 AM Despite what we think now, this was a fantastic way for operators to update their fleet of dependable Seeburg 200s and get way more operating life out of them. Although now considered classic, at the time, the V 200 soon became dated. A few of these around as a testament to what happened is a good thing. First and foremost, these were vending machines. Most A and many B locations demanded the latest equipment, and I'm betting many were fooled by these. We actually did something like this once. We had a good location with an AMI CD 100 A, then a CD100 E. When 18 months later he demanded a new one (and wasn't making quite what it needed to to warrant it), we gave him a hardly used CD 100 C that we'd pulled form elsewhere and after a cleanup and some new lighting colors created by me to match his location, looked brand new. I also tweeked up the EQ on it so it sounded really impressive. All he knew is that it was different and he was quite happy with it. It cost us all of about $25 for color gels/bulbs and my time to give it a good detailing. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 12:48:53 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 13 12:50:04 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Scam warning ? In-Reply-To: <4995CF6A.9070701@west.net> Message-ID: <568884.89961.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jay, Don't recall the AC now--but it was answered by a person claiming to be him, as his cell phone--I wanted to see it prior to bidding, as he claims (in his email to me) that he has no key, and can not open it---Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: From: Jay Hennigan Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Scam warning ? To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 11:52 AM The feedback is all as a buyer, and somewhat old. So it could be a scam, a hijacked account. However, most of these scams are a more collectible juke or other antique at a higher price. I suspect the guy just hasn't been active on EBay for a while. There have been times when I've been inactive for a year or more. I think it's legit. As he's only offering local pickup, you could bid and pay cash when you pick it up, assuming you're in the area. Or see if you can inspect it before bidding. Was the phone number he gave you in the 831 area code? -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Fri Feb 13 13:03:20 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Fri Feb 13 13:04:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: Chopped Seeburg V Message-ID: Don't forget that there was a glut of colorful jukeboxes already out there in 1960. They could be cleaned up and relocated for more hip locations. Jukebox styling was simply following automotive design trend. Plus, by introducing a low key model, operators were able to attract the steakhouses and other locations that previously would have considered a chrome and colored light jukebox to be way too gaudy. It was a huge market that could be tapped into. As for the Americana I and II series, consider that they came 5 and 6 years after the LPC1, the 10th most produced jukebox of all time. Wurlitzer was late. In the meantime, Seeburg produced the Fleetwood and Electra models, as well as the SS160, LS1 and LS2, so colorful jukes were certainly not gone by any means, as there was still a market for them. Let's not confuse a demand for album tracks as a push for them by Seeburg. The little LP format was ultimately a failure. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009 From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Fri Feb 13 12:50:18 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Fri Feb 13 13:06:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <348265.57665.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <348265.57665.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes Ron, that's true. But there were vending machines which dispensed phonograph records. Check this out. http://www.rarebeatles.com/photospg/flexiad.htm Some of these Beatle flexidiscs go for over $1000 (well, at least before the recession!) Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: 2009, February, 13 3:42 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V Kyle, Gotta BIG dis-agreement here !!? A Coin Operated Phonograph is NOT, nor never waz, ?a "Vending Machine" !? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote: From: Mechanical Music of S.F. Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 11:51 AM Despite what we think now, this was a fantastic way for operators to update their fleet of dependable Seeburg 200s and get way more operating life out of them. Although now considered classic, at the time, the V 200 soon became dated. A few of these around as a testament to what happened is a good thing. First and foremost, these were vending machines. Most A and many B locations demanded the latest equipment, and I'm betting many were fooled by these. We actually did something like this once. We had a good location with an AMI CD 100 A, then a CD100 E. When 18 months later he demanded a new one (and wasn't making quite what it needed to to warrant it), we gave him a hardly used CD 100 C that we'd pulled form elsewhere and after a cleanup and some new lighting colors created by me to match his location, looked brand new. I also tweeked up the EQ on it so it sounded really impressive. All he knew is that it was different and he was quite happy with it. It cost us all of about $25 for color gels/bulbs and my time to give it a good detailing. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live(tm): E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 13 19:15:24 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:18:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V Message-ID: <20090213.221524.16089.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: This has been an interesting discussion thread about the modified V200. I worked as a young tech for a midwest-US vending corp that operated a sizable jukebox route in the early "pre-beatles" 60's. Running a jukebox route was still commercially viable at that time. There's an element of truth to many of the points brought up here. The company I worked for routinely "bounced" their older machines down to their less profitable locations. Type A locations (mostly bars and clubs) that had high earning potential got the newest, most advanced jukebox models. As someone else mentioned here, older machines with tired-looking cabinets got new exterior treatments in order to look fresh in their new C and D type locations. Most restaurant and pub owners typically wanted to have their juke changed out at least once a year in order to have a fresh look. It kept up customer interest in the machine. The company I worked for had mostly Wurlitzer jukes. On a few occasions, "retired" model 1900, 2100, 2200, 2300 machines were repackaged in the 60's with new cabinet treatments (built to order) in order to get more return on investment. In current collector's terms, this would probably be considered sacriligeous, since these are now some of Wurlitzers' most collectible 45 RPM jukes. In an earlier email, I mentioned that there was a demand for album music as opposed to only hit singles. Someone else on the forum stated that this was due to Seeburg's marketing effort for Little LP's. This might need a little explanation. Musically, around the time the British invasion hit the US,(1964?) jukebox customers/users were asking for songs that the record labels were not issuing as 45 singles--only available on LP's. The advent of the Little LP helped address that issue. This trend didn't last very long ,though. Last, there was a trend for restaurant managers not to devote a lot of floor space for a jukebox in the 60's. Restaurant brass were impressed with compact jukes like the RO Princess. The new wall boxes with speakers installed sparked a new demand for hide-away type installations. I think Seeburg's LPC-1 model was the first to offer this. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Make money while staying at home. Click here for information on top-notch home businesses. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8NcspqnEIrViwBDfhAxRrj8WrpI67NmGzscJlU8XUMrkHs6/ From oldstuff1967 at yahoo.ca Fri Feb 13 22:02:59 2009 From: oldstuff1967 at yahoo.ca (Lala Blah Blah) Date: Fri Feb 13 22:04:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <20090213.221524.16089.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <646779.37285.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Lets cut to the chase ok?? Route runners as we call them in Canada were in our eyes the scum to jukes.. period.. they bought them and anticipated a million in cash when they only had to put out the minimal to put it on location.. I KNOW SEEN IT DONE IT!? I never cheaped out.. ever.. however it did cut out?alot of profits but to me it was not about that.? (to clarify I ran pinball machines not jukes in the 1980's)and it wore me out but I could not justify profit over ignoring or bubble-gumming the machines back into service. I have seen this over and over again when the operator puts the machine back into service with a McGiver attitude and then gets another 5 years out of it and then it chugs to the final stop of its life in his hands and then pawns it off to some sucker for a high price as a vintage jukebox with all this elaborate history that it was this? and that on the plus side not telling the new buyer that it as abused by him and also not mentioning that it was urinated in or has a cigarette but put out on the buttons or booted with steel toe boots in the grill smashing the speaker. Most of the route operators were nothing but scum (not? all).. but most.. and they scam,, Most of them would sell their own mothers down the road for 2 cents. I speak from experience. ? Regards Tony --- On Fri, 2/13/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Received: Friday, February 13, 2009, 10:15 PM Gentlemen: This has been an interesting discussion thread about the modified V200. I worked as a young tech for a midwest-US vending corp that operated a sizable jukebox route in the early "pre-beatles" 60's. Running a jukebox route was still commercially viable at that time. There's an element of truth to many of the points brought up here. The company I worked for routinely "bounced" their older machines down to their less profitable locations. Type A locations (mostly bars and clubs) that had high earning potential got the newest, most advanced jukebox models. As someone else mentioned here, older machines with tired-looking cabinets got new exterior treatments in order to look fresh in their new C and D type locations. Most restaurant and pub owners typically wanted to have their juke changed out at least once a year in order to have a fresh look. It kept up customer interest in the machine. The company I worked for had mostly Wurlitzer jukes. On a few occasions, "retired" model 1900, 2100, 2200, 2300 machines were repackaged in the 60's with new cabinet treatments (built to order) in order to get more return on investment. In current collector's terms, this would probably be considered sacriligeous, since these are now some of Wurlitzers' most collectible 45 RPM jukes. In an earlier email, I mentioned that there was a demand for album music as opposed to only hit singles. Someone else on the forum stated that this was due to Seeburg's marketing effort for Little LP's. This might need a little explanation. Musically, around the time the British invasion hit the US,(1964?) jukebox customers/users were asking for songs that the record labels were not issuing as 45 singles--only available on LP's. The advent of the Little LP helped address that issue. This trend didn't last very long ,though. Last, there was a trend for restaurant managers not to devote a lot of floor space for a jukebox in the 60's. Restaurant brass were impressed with compact jukes like the RO Princess. The new wall boxes with speakers installed sparked a new demand for hide-away type installations. I think Seeburg's LPC-1 model was the first to offer this. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Make money while staying at home. Click here for information on top-notch home businesses. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8NcspqnEIrViwBDfhAxRrj8WrpI67NmGzscJlU8XUMrkHs6/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 13 22:45:26 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 13 22:48:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V Message-ID: <20090214.014526.15055.0@webmail10.vgs.untd.com> Hi, Lala Blah Blah: Wow. You have a really high opinion of the amusement operator's industry. The folks I worked for had a lot more class than what you're describing. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ It's never too old to date. Senior Dating. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryA0FgVKua70wzvgLiYX873QcayBvrm6QnhBbXrC9lpBUHeBw/ From jhayes2613 at aol.com Sat Feb 14 10:56:18 2009 From: jhayes2613 at aol.com (jhayes2613@aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:03:41 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 Message-ID: <8CB5CED0E1B56AA-1250-36C6@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com> Hello- Did this model originally come with external directional speakers like the DS? If so, where did they attach? -j From pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk Sat Feb 14 11:11:44 2009 From: pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk (Nigel Pugh) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:12:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 In-Reply-To: <8CB5CED0E1B56AA-1250-36C6@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB5CED0E1B56AA-1250-36C6@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004201c98ed8$133af1c0$39b0d540$@force9.co.uk> No it didn't. I'm not sure if they were available as an option, but doubt that too. -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of jhayes2613@aol.com Sent: 14 February 2009 18:56 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 Hello- Did this model originally come with external directional speakers like the DS? If so, where did they attach? -j _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 11:34:00 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:35:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 In-Reply-To: <8CB5CED0E1B56AA-1250-36C6@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <488691.10989.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> They were optional--attached to the frame up top/sides--look at the painted surface, and you will see the mtg holes--Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/14/09, jhayes2613@aol.com wrote: From: jhayes2613@aol.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 10:56 AM Hello- Did this model originally come with external directional speakers like the DS? If so, where did they attach? -j _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 14 12:32:10 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:34:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 Message-ID: <20090214.153210.14603.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com> The 1963 Seeburg LPC-1 could be equipped with stereo "wing" spkrs like the 1962 DS models. The speakers could be mounted via holes in the rear brown-color steel panel. The wing speakers would be mounted in line with the 5 "album of the week" pictures. With this option, mid-hi freq sound was brought to ear level for machine customers. When properly setup, the LPC-1's sound quality using the console speakers, was very good. I believe (and I could be wrong here) that the wing speakers had to be ordered as an option when purchasing a new LPC-1. Most of the LPC's that I've seen didn't have these speakers installed. Ron Rich probably has a more definitive answer for this question. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to replace your roof - modern technology. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZFEwv2DdsK3MgZAHRhZvF1h3eLUR3mW2rBl7ci79w7b5Qy/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 12:46:24 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:47:34 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <996805.94975.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Someone just said something that I had never heard before--can any of you "old timers" (that's older then me--LOL) confirm this? Seeburg model M100B and M100C were available with both chrome plated keyboard castings and painted castings, amongst other metal parts. What I had always heard before, was that this was due to a chrome shortage in the 50's, and that the operator had to take whatever was available---. What I'm now hearing, was that this was an "option" and that both models were available both ways, but the chrome plated versions were more expensive ( "chrome" was an option)--$50 to $100 extra??. I wonder what Seeburg's policy was--was this maybe?a "local" dstrib.'s policy ?? Anyone know which is true ?? TIA, Ron Rich Ron From berrycbell at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 13:02:12 2009 From: berrycbell at gmail.com (Berry Bell) Date: Sat Feb 14 13:08:43 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <996805.94975.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <996805.94975.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've also seen the title holders in a B & BL unchromed. They had a gray hammertone type finish like the keyboard casting. Can't say I've ever seen the C in anything but chrome. Berry Bell On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Ron Rich wrote: > Hi All, > Someone just said something that I had never heard before--can any of you > "old timers" (that's older then me--LOL) confirm this? > Seeburg model M100B and M100C were available with both chrome plated > keyboard castings and painted castings, amongst other metal parts. What I > had always heard before, was that this was due to a chrome shortage in the > 50's, and that the operator had to take whatever was available---. > What I'm now hearing, was that this was an "option" and that both models > were available both ways, but the chrome plated versions were more expensive > ( "chrome" was an option)--$50 to $100 extra??. I wonder what Seeburg's > policy was--was this maybe a "local" dstrib.'s policy ?? > Anyone know which is true ?? > TIA, Ron Rich > Ron > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From bobe at halted.com Sat Feb 14 12:58:36 2009 From: bobe at halted.com (Bob Ellingson) Date: Sat Feb 14 13:11:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 Message-ID: <2.2.32.20090214205836.0099203c@hsces.com> At 11:34 AM 2/14/2009 -0800, you wrote: >They were optional--attached to the frame up top/sides--look at the painted surface, and you will see the mtg holes--Ron Rich > As it was the next model-year, were they using up leftover DS speakers by re-badging them? --Bob ======================================================================= Bob Ellingson bobe@halted.com Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) From wbabbott at verizon.net Sat Feb 14 12:25:46 2009 From: wbabbott at verizon.net (Britt Abbott) Date: Sat Feb 14 13:28:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Speaker Isolation ? Message-ID: <1208356857.9733691234643146461.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Was the old 1950s jukebox mono speakers always mounted directly to the speaker board? Did anyone ever try to use thick rubber grommets in the mounting holes of speaker to isolate the speaker from the speaker board? I noticed that I get some vibration sounds coming though when playing records. Keep in mind I'm not an audio whiz, just let me know your thoughts on the subject. Britt Chesapeake, VA From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 13:32:53 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 14 13:34:02 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Speaker Isolation ? In-Reply-To: <1208356857.9733691234643146461.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <186262.54027.qm@web111307.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Britt, As far as I know, the sound board was considered part of the "whole" system in that design. I know it was in the (much) latter Seeburgs---Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Britt Abbott wrote: From: Britt Abbott Subject: [Jukebox-list] Speaker Isolation ? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 12:25 PM Was the old 1950s jukebox mono speakers always mounted directly to the speaker board? Did anyone ever try to use thick rubber grommets in the mounting holes of speaker to isolate the speaker from the speaker board? I noticed that I get some vibration sounds coming though when playing records. Keep in mind I'm not an audio whiz, just let me know your thoughts on the subject. Britt Chesapeake, VA _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jhayes2613 at aol.com Sat Feb 14 14:32:00 2009 From: jhayes2613 at aol.com (jhayes2613@aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:39:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 In-Reply-To: <20090214.153210.14603.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090214.153210.14603.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <8CB5D0B2FD7ECF5-1250-3DDC@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com> Would not the machines sound kind of "muddy" w/out the wing speakers then? -----Original Message----- From: James Alexander To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 2:32 pm Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 The 1963 Seeburg LPC-1 could be equipped with stereo "wing" spkrs like the 1962 DS models. The speakers could be mounted via holes in the rear brown-color steel panel. The wing speakers would be mounted in line with the 5 "album of the week" pictures. With this option, mid-hi freq sound was brought to ear level for machine customers. When properly setup, the LPC-1's sound quality using the console speakers, was very good. I believe (and I could be wrong here) that the wing speakers had to be ordered as an option when purchasing a new LPC-1. Most of the LPC's that I've seen didn't have these speakers installed. Ron Rich probably has a more definitive answer for this question. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to replace your roof - modern technology. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZFEwv2DdsK3MgZAHRhZvF1h3eLUR3mW2rBl7ci79w7b5Qy/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jugert at msn.com Sat Feb 14 14:47:12 2009 From: jugert at msn.com (jugert@msn.com) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:48:23 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <996805.94975.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <996805.94975.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ron, Even though I am not an ol-timer I will tell you my personal experiences. I have restored a lot of the 100 select seeburgs from 51-55. I never found an "ORIGINAL" m100c that had either a hammertone keyboard casting or hammertone title strip holders. I personally restored a few hundred of them. The m100c's that I found that did have hammertone castings I could tell were not original and someone over the years replaced them with hammertone castings. Same is true for the B & BL but these 2 models are different. Many times I found broken chromed corner pieces of title strip holders in the bottom of these "C" cabinets and knew someone replaced them with a set of hammertones. I also want to remind you that most of these boxes I am talking about I bought in the 70's -80's when you found mostly complete untouched originals, not like what you find today. I would probably still be restoring if I could still find these untouched gems. As for the m100b & m100bl. Almost every "B" model I found had both hammertone painted keyboard castings & title strip holders. Almost every "BL" I found had both a chrome keyboard casting & chrome title strip holders also the "BL" had chrome plated mech mounts as the model "B" always had hammertone mech mounts. I have several xerox boxes full of original seeburg manuals/papers/invoices/inventory records etc. (all my paperwork from from a distributor from Den/SaltLake and have never read anything to make me think that these were price options from seeburg. I am curious to hear from other members on this subject. This is my personal experience restoring some 400 C's and some 150 B/BL's. Don Jugert . .> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:46:24 -0800> From: ronnnrich@yahoo.com> To: seeburgjukeboxinformationclub@yahoogroups.com; jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> CC: > Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject)> > Hi All,> Someone just said something that I had never heard before--can any of you "old timers" (that's older then me--LOL) confirm this?> Seeburg model M100B and M100C were available with both chrome plated keyboard castings and painted castings, amongst other metal parts. What I had always heard before, was that this was due to a chrome shortage in the 50's, and that the operator had to take whatever was available---. > What I'm now hearing, was that this was an "option" and that both models were available both ways, but the chrome plated versions were more expensive ( "chrome" was an option)--$50 to $100 extra??. I wonder what Seeburg's policy was--was this maybe a "local" dstrib.'s policy ??> Anyone know which is true ??> TIA, Ron Rich> Ron> > > > _______________________________________________> Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Sat Feb 14 14:49:39 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:50:47 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V Message-ID: Ron. Sure was, you put money in, got music out. Rowe, Rock-Ola were well known for their OTHER vending machines, and even Wurlitzer and Seeburg to a lesser degree. Games, food/snacks/drinks/cigarettes, music, all fall under it. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Sat Feb 14 14:56:36 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:57:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Lala Blah Blah Message-ID: Yeah. I worked in the industry for years, and we thought nothing of calling the other vending companies if we needed something pronto. Ditto them to us. We all got along great and worked together on a very friendly basis. Toledo, Ohio. 1990s Now, back in the day, it was a different story. A lot of vending was mob run in some big cities. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Sat Feb 14 14:59:04 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Sat Feb 14 15:00:12 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: LPC-1 Message-ID: Actually, early promotional art for the LPC-1 shows ear speakers, and the mounting points for them are on each machine. They made the already wide console model even wider and I don't think they really pushed them. They could have used the sound boost on the high end. Add tweeters to an LPC-1. They really CAN sound fantastic. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009 From edbap at aol.com Sat Feb 14 15:32:14 2009 From: edbap at aol.com (Ed Baptista) Date: Sat Feb 14 15:39:35 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <996805.94975.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB5D1399AFD53F-128C-2DF8@MBLK-M13.sysops.aol.com> I have to agree with Don on the C's, I have never seen what I would call an original C with hammertone keyboard or title strips. BUT on the Bs, I have seen a mixture.? I currently have 3 very, very original Bs.? One is very early in production number, and has chrome keyboard, titles, and chrome holding up the mech.? The metal pieces that are holding the side glass in place is also chrome, and another odd thing, the runners on the back of the box are metal, aluminum looking.? The second one is also chrome keyboard, and chrome titles, but the mech support is hammertone, and the side pieces holding the side glass is hammertone fiberboard. The third one has all hammertone.? Of course I know the operators could, and would interchange keyboards and title holders at will, but I highly doubt they would change the mech stand, or runners on back, or side trim holding the glass.? I personally think seeburg started out with lotsa chrome, and as sales went up started looking for ways to keep costs down, so stopped chroming stuff where they could.? My 2 pesos worth..... Eddie Baptista -----Original Message----- From: jugert@msn.com To: jukeboxlist Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 2:47 pm Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) Ron, Even though I am not an ol-timer I will tell you my personal experiences. I have restored a lot of the 100 select seeburgs from 51-55. I never found an "ORIGINAL" m100c that had either a hammertone keyboard casting or hammertone title strip holders. I personally restored a few hundred of them. The m100c's that I found that did have hammertone castings I could tell were not original and someone over the years replaced them with hammertone castings. Same is true for the B & BL but these 2 models are different. Many times I found broken chromed corner pieces of title strip holders in the bottom of these "C" cabinets and knew someone replaced them with a set of hammertones. I also want to remind you that most of these boxes I am talking about I bought in the 70's -80's when you found mostly complete untouched originals, not like what you find today. I would probably still be restoring if I could still find these untouched gems. As for the m100b & m100bl. Almost every "B" model I found had both hammertone painted keyboard castings & title strip holders. Almost every "BL" I found had both a chrome keyboard casting & chrome title strip holders also the "BL" had chrome plated mech mounts as the model "B" always had hammertone mech mounts. I have several xerox boxes full of original seeburg manuals/papers/invoices/inventory records etc. (all my paperwork from from a distributor from Den/SaltLake and have never read anything to make me think that these were price options from seeburg. I am curious to hear from other members on this subject. This is my personal experience restoring some 400 C's and some 150 B/BL's. Don Jugert . .> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:46:24 -0800> From: ronnnrich@yahoo.com> To: seeburgjukeboxinformationclub@yahoogroups.com; jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> CC: > Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject)> > Hi All,> Someone just said something that I had never heard before--can any of you "old timers" (that's older then me--LOL) confirm this?> Seeburg model M100B and M100C were available with both chrome plated keyboard castings and painted castings, amongst other metal parts. What I had always heard before, was that this was due to a chrome shortage in the 50's, and that the operator had to take whatever was available---. > What I'm now hearing, was that this was an "option" and that both models were available both ways, but the chrome plated versions were more expensive ( "chrome" was an option)--$50 to $100 extra??. I wonder what Seeburg's policy was--was this maybe a "local" dstrib.'s policy ??> Anyone know which is true ??> TIA, Ron Rich> Ron> > > > _______________________________________________> Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jugert at msn.com Sat Feb 14 16:02:32 2009 From: jugert at msn.com (jugert@msn.com) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:03:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8CB5D1399AFD53F-128C-2DF8@MBLK-M13.sysops.aol.com> References: <996805.94975.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CB5D1399AFD53F-128C-2DF8@MBLK-M13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Eddie, I did forget something on the C's. C's do have 2 different types of trim that holds the side glass, just like the the b one was masonite/fiberboard and the other was pot metal that was chromed (most of them had chrome) and I too have seen metal runners on the back of b's as well as early C's. Don Jugert .. ..> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] (no subject)> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:32:14 -0500> From: edbap@aol.com> > I have to agree with Don on the C's, I have never seen what I would call an original C with hammertone keyboard or title strips. > BUT on the Bs, I have seen a mixture.? I currently have 3 very, very original Bs.? One is very early in production number, and has chrome keyboard, titles, and chrome holding up the mech.? The metal pieces that are holding the side glass in place is also chrome, and another odd thing, the runners on the back of the box are metal, aluminum looking.? The second one is also chrome keyboard, and chrome titles, but the mech support is hammertone, and the side pieces holding the side glass is hammertone fiberboard.> The third one has all hammertone.? Of course I know the operators could, and would interchange keyboards and title holders at will, but I highly doubt they would change the mech stand, or runners on back, or side trim holding the glass.? I personally think seeburg started out with lotsa chrome, and as sales went up started looking for ways to keep costs down, so stopped chroming stuff where they could.? My 2 pesos worth.....> > > Eddie Baptista> > > > -----Original Message-----> From: jugert@msn.com> To: jukeboxlist > Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 2:47 pm> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] (no subject)> > > > > Ron, > Even though I am not an ol-timer I will tell you my personal experiences.> > I have restored a lot of the 100 select seeburgs from 51-55. I never found an > "ORIGINAL" m100c that had either a hammertone keyboard casting or hammertone > title strip holders. I personally restored a few hundred of them. The m100c's > that I found that did have hammertone castings I could tell were not original > and someone over the years replaced them with hammertone castings. Same is true > for the B & BL but these 2 models are different. Many times I found broken > chromed corner pieces of title strip holders in the bottom of these "C" cabinets > and knew someone replaced them with a set of hammertones. I also want to remind > you that most of these boxes I am talking about I bought in the 70's -80's when > you found mostly complete untouched originals, not like what you find today. I > would probably still be restoring if I could still find these untouched gems. > > As for the m100b & m100bl. Almost every "B" model I found had both hammertone > painted keyboard castings & title strip holders. Almost every "BL" I found had > both a chrome keyboard casting & chrome title strip holders also the "BL" had > chrome plated mech mounts as the model "B" always had hammertone mech mounts. > > I have several xerox boxes full of original seeburg manuals/papers/invoices/inventory > records etc. (all my paperwork from from a distributor from Den/SaltLake and > have never read anything to make me think that these were price options from > seeburg. I am curious to hear from other members on this subject.> > This is my personal experience restoring some 400 C's and some 150 B/BL's.> > Don Jugert> .> .> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:46:24 -0800> From: ronnnrich@yahoo.com> To: > seeburgjukeboxinformationclub@yahoogroups.com; jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> > CC: > Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject)> > Hi All,> Someone just said > something that I had never heard before--can any of you "old timers" (that's > older then me--LOL) confirm this?> Seeburg model> M100B and M100C were available > with both chrome plated keyboard castings and painted castings, amongst other > metal parts. What I had always heard before, was that this was due to a chrome > shortage in the 50's, and that the operator had to take whatever was > available---. > What I'm now hearing, was that this was an "option" and that > both models were available both ways, but the chrome plated versions were more > expensive ( "chrome" was an option)--$50 to $100 extra??. I wonder what > Seeburg's policy was--was this maybe a "local" dstrib.'s policy ??> Anyone know > which is true ??> TIA, Ron Rich> Ron> > > > _______________________________________________> > Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list_______________________________________________> Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list> > _______________________________________________> Jukebox-list mailing list> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 16:03:18 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:04:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 In-Reply-To: <8CB5D0B2FD7ECF5-1250-3DDC@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <385038.88310.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> yep --- On Sat, 2/14/09, jhayes2613@aol.com wrote: From: jhayes2613@aol.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 2:32 PM Would not the machines sound kind of "muddy" w/out the wing speakers then? -----Original Message----- From: James Alexander To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 2:32 pm Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 The 1963 Seeburg LPC-1 could be equipped with stereo "wing" spkrs like the 1962 DS models. The speakers could be mounted via holes in the rear brown-color steel panel. The wing speakers would be mounted in line with the 5 "album of the week" pictures. With this option, mid-hi freq sound was brought to ear level for machine customers. When properly setup, the LPC-1's sound quality using the console speakers, was very good. I believe (and I could be wrong here) that the wing speakers had to be ordered as an option when purchasing a new LPC-1. Most of the LPC's that I've seen didn't have these speakers installed. Ron Rich probably has a more definitive answer for this question. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to replace your roof - modern technology. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9ZFEwv2DdsK3MgZAHRhZvF1h3eLUR3mW2rBl7ci79w7b5Qy/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 16:19:36 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:20:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <908164.95622.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Kyle, A-ha, You got nothing that you could see, touch, eat, drink or throw--so it?was not "vending"--as "vend" means to "dispose of something by sale" (Websters), and a coin operated phonograph retains it's "product"---(as does a coin op game !). Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote: From: Mechanical Music of S.F. Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 2:49 PM Ron. Sure was, you put money in, got music out. Rowe, Rock-Ola were well known for their OTHER vending machines, and even Wurlitzer and Seeburg to a lesser degree. Games, food/snacks/drinks/cigarettes, music, all fall under it. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From JHayes2613 at aol.com Sat Feb 14 16:21:55 2009 From: JHayes2613 at aol.com (John Hayes) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:29:18 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 In-Reply-To: <488691.10989.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <488691.10989.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I take it the wing speakers are difficult to find...? On Feb 14, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Ron Rich wrote: > They were optional--attached to the frame up top/sides--look at the > painted surface, and you will see the mtg holes--Ron Rich > > --- On Sat, 2/14/09, jhayes2613@aol.com wrote: > > From: jhayes2613@aol.com > Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 10:56 AM > > Hello- > Did this model originally come with external directional speakers > like the DS? > If so, where did they attach? > > -j > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From david_breneman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 16:35:11 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:36:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <908164.95622.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <841781.47653.qm@web42108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Ron Rich wrote: > A-ha, You got nothing that you could see, touch, eat, drink > or throw--so it was not "vending"[...] Wow, that definition makes a prostitute more of a vending machine than a jukebox is! :-) Seriously, I can understand that jukeboxes and vending machines are similar in that they are unattended mechanical contrivances that accept cash and provide something the customer finds to be of value in return. I can also see that a company producing one would enjoy economies of scale producing both since they would have some shared components. Like Ron, however, I always think of a vending machine dispensing a physical object which the customer can carry away from the transaction. Artistically and philosophically, buying a song from a jukebox is more like buying a theater ticket than purchasing a candy bar. From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 14 16:48:40 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:51:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 Message-ID: <20090214.194840.9313.2@webmail22.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: I have to disagree with you on this one. LPC-1's,equipped with 8" 2 way speakers (center tweeters) had well balanced freq response and sounded nice (if you were standing 10 ft or more away from the machine )with or without the wing speakers. Seeburg issued an upgrade bulletin changing some caps in the treble tone control circuit of the TSA1 amplifier (in '64 I think) that extended the high end boost response further. An amp equipped with this modification made a noticeable difference in tonal balance. Over the last year, I restored 2 LPC's for sale-----one had the coax speakers and the rebuilt, improved TSA1 -- very nice sound. The second LPC came with the amp missing ---installed the 70's Seeburg SHP-3 100W/ch amp. Made a modification to accomodate the volume control---otherwise just a rebuilt SHP amp. This LPC rocked and sounded great! Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the satellite television package that meets your needs. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9Htqfcn2rsQjCam8H9KHhgV9RRBEuxAcrCKnd4N4x1bOlx8/ From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sat Feb 14 17:10:51 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sat Feb 14 17:11:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <841781.47653.qm@web42108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3FD7FF5C6E4F4CB286475F77DC6D4DC3@Lyn> Hello everyone Interesting conversation, just to stick my oar in.. The word Vend means to sell, therefore a vending machine is surely any machine that provides something the consumer wants in return for a payment. If that is true then a Jukebox is most definitely a vending machine! I have enjoyed "listening in " to this whole subject, particularly the antics of the industry in the US, has anyone anything to say about the UK industry, did it work in the same way? Is my understanding of the way these things work correct, pubs, clubs, bars etc pay a leisure company to place a machine in their premises in return for a percentage of the takings? Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of David Breneman Sent: 15 February 2009 00:35 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Ron Rich wrote: > A-ha, You got nothing that you could see, touch, eat, drink or > throw--so it was not "vending"[...] Wow, that definition makes a prostitute more of a vending machine than a jukebox is! :-) Seriously, I can understand that jukeboxes and vending machines are similar in that they are unattended mechanical contrivances that accept cash and provide something the customer finds to be of value in return. I can also see that a company producing one would enjoy economies of scale producing both since they would have some shared components. Like Ron, however, I always think of a vending machine dispensing a physical object which the customer can carry away from the transaction. Artistically and philosophically, buying a song from a jukebox is more like buying a theater ticket than purchasing a candy bar. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dirksenj at bellsouth.net Sat Feb 14 17:13:42 2009 From: dirksenj at bellsouth.net (dirksenj@bellsouth.net) Date: Sat Feb 14 17:16:01 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V References: <678105.62378.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004f01c98f0a$a5b83e90$6101a8c0@Dirksen> I remember chuckling to myself at the photo of a lone employee taking on dozens of jukes armed with only a sledgehammer in his hand. A highly efficient manufacturing plant would certainly have better ways to dispose of old equipment. I seem to remember he was not actually destroying Wurlitzer products either - it seemed to be only the other manufacturers' equipment. I always thought this was a bunch of "propaganda". Did the manufacturers really take trade-ins on old jukes? If so, I can't imagine them actually destroying good equipment. Recycling, "dressing up" and re-selling, or selling them as-is overseas would seem more beneficial. Anyone know for sure? Jim Dirksen ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Breneman" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V > --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Steve Wahl wrote: > > >> There is a pretty famous picture from the 30's or >> 40's of a >> manufacturer chopping up older jukeboxes; I think it was >> wurlitzer. >> They did this to the jukeboxes that were traded in on newer >> models, so >> that their customers, the route owners that bought new >> jukeboxes, >> would know that the old jukes wouldn't end up sold at a >> bargain price >> to their local competitor. Brings pretty much the same >> feeling to mind. > > There's a photo montage reprinted in "Jukebox Saturday Night" > that shows a jukebox operator, depicted as a real "big shot" > delivering a new Wurlitzer jukebox to a fancy restaurant. > Then he watches as his employee takes that restaurant's former > machine and delivers it to a local cafe. Finally, that cafe's > old machine is placed in a frousy little beanery, all under > the imperial gaze of the operator, as that location's old non- > lightup box is handtrucked out the door. Final shot is the > "obsolete" machines being smashed by a guy with a sledgehammer. > Wurlitzer's message: Once you've run a machine down the > location food chain, it won't be showing up in competition > against you when you trade it in. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sat Feb 14 17:26:43 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sat Feb 14 17:27:51 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Message-ID: <59B9EA8A4C444F2285C966127F56E4F1@Lyn> Hello I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator is completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if anyone else has done this? Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone point me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a little concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a very worn armature so I will be no better off. Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as those I have seen all look very similar Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 14 18:05:34 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 14 18:08:37 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Message-ID: <20090214.210534.8180.0@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> Hello David: On E Bay you will sometimes see someone selling replacement RO armature shafts. Back in the day, replacement armature shafts were sold as replacement parts to repair worn motors. A word of caution, RO used about 4 different motor variations/ motor manufacturers over the 45 RPM vinyl years. Be careful that you are not buying the wrong armature. The record basket and gripper motors will both use the armature assembly. Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Suffering from asthma? Click now to find relief with great treatment options! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6ryAXgvhDQVFXlKEDu2EMqHqeSTyg7GdNOdx98anGZS1EwIzym/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 14 18:12:22 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 14 18:12:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V Message-ID: <20090214.211222.8180.2@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> Yes, but weren't you purchasing a "listening experience" or entertainment? Those experiences can have value, right? If not, why would the artist bother to compose and record the song? Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Find the perfect photo - click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8VZ6x3cd91z8lUpmB6Uckz5xbiBaJ28abdl9rwUHGIEsedw/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 18:50:59 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 14 18:52:07 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <004f01c98f0a$a5b83e90$6101a8c0@Dirksen> Message-ID: <371242.70257.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jim, The distrib. that I worked for in the late 60's did, in fact destroy many old cabinets, and some of the electro/mechanical parts, while others were sold "out of country"--Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/14/09, dirksenj@bellsouth.net wrote: From: dirksenj@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 5:13 PM I remember chuckling to myself at the photo of a lone employee taking on dozens of jukes armed with only a sledgehammer in his hand. A highly efficient manufacturing plant would certainly have better ways to dispose of old equipment. I seem to remember he was not actually destroying Wurlitzer products either - it seemed to be only the other manufacturers' equipment. I always thought this was a bunch of "propaganda". Did the manufacturers really take trade-ins on old jukes? If so, I can't imagine them actually destroying good equipment. Recycling, "dressing up" and re-selling, or selling them as-is overseas would seem more beneficial. Anyone know for sure? Jim Dirksen ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Breneman" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Chopped Seeburg V > --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Steve Wahl wrote: > > >> There is a pretty famous picture from the 30's or >> 40's of a >> manufacturer chopping up older jukeboxes; I think it was >> wurlitzer. >> They did this to the jukeboxes that were traded in on newer >> models, so >> that their customers, the route owners that bought new >> jukeboxes, >> would know that the old jukes wouldn't end up sold at a >> bargain price >> to their local competitor. Brings pretty much the same >> feeling to mind. > > There's a photo montage reprinted in "Jukebox Saturday Night" > that shows a jukebox operator, depicted as a real "big shot" > delivering a new Wurlitzer jukebox to a fancy restaurant. > Then he watches as his employee takes that restaurant's former > machine and delivers it to a local cafe. Finally, that cafe's > old machine is placed in a frousy little beanery, all under > the imperial gaze of the operator, as that location's old non- > lightup box is handtrucked out the door. Final shot is the > "obsolete" machines being smashed by a guy with a sledgehammer. > Wurlitzer's message: Once you've run a machine down the > location food chain, it won't be showing up in competition > against you when you trade it in. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 19:15:05 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 14 19:22:12 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V In-Reply-To: <3FD7FF5C6E4F4CB286475F77DC6D4DC3@Lyn> Message-ID: <738008.91001.qm@web111303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> David, Like I said--I looked it up--the key words in my dictionary, to me, are "--dispose of something--", and to my knowledge, the only "jukebox" capable of doing that almost every time, was a Capeheart "Record flipper" model-----of course, you might also consider the Rock-ola that you have with the bad motor to have "disposed" of something ??? BTW--I dono, but you might list the model number of that machine and someone else might know the interchangable motors--Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/14/09, david wrote: From: david Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 5:10 PM Hello everyone Interesting conversation, just to stick my oar in.. The word Vend means to sell, therefore a vending machine is surely any machine that provides something the consumer wants in return for a payment. If that is true then a Jukebox is most definitely a vending machine! I have enjoyed "listening in " to this whole subject, particularly the antics of the industry in the US, has anyone anything to say about the UK industry, did it work in the same way? Is my understanding of the way these things work correct, pubs, clubs, bars etc pay a leisure company to place a machine in their premises in return for a percentage of the takings? Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of David Breneman Sent: 15 February 2009 00:35 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: Chopped Seeburg V --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Ron Rich wrote: > A-ha, You got nothing that you could see, touch, eat, drink or > throw--so it was not "vending"[...] Wow, that definition makes a prostitute more of a vending machine than a jukebox is! :-) Seriously, I can understand that jukeboxes and vending machines are similar in that they are unattended mechanical contrivances that accept cash and provide something the customer finds to be of value in return. I can also see that a company producing one would enjoy economies of scale producing both since they would have some shared components. Like Ron, however, I always think of a vending machine dispensing a physical object which the customer can carry away from the transaction. Artistically and philosophically, buying a song from a jukebox is more like buying a theater ticket than purchasing a candy bar. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Sat Feb 14 19:23:17 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Sat Feb 14 19:24:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Speaker Isolation ? In-Reply-To: <1208356857.9733691234643146461.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <1208356857.9733691234643146461.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <49978AA5.5020402@west.net> Britt Abbott wrote: > Was the old 1950s jukebox mono speakers always mounted directly to the > speaker board? Did anyone ever try to use thick rubber grommets in the > mounting holes of speaker to isolate the speaker from the speaker board? > I noticed that I get some vibration sounds coming though when playing > records. Keep in mind I'm not an audio whiz, just let me know your > thoughts on the subject. The mounting board and cabinet form a tuned enclosure. If the speaker weren't mounted tightly to the mounting board, air from the front of the speaker could pass around the edge of the speaker to the back. This would result in overall loss of bass and uneven frequency response. Consider trying to track down he source of the cabinet vibrations and tighten or secure whatever is loose and vibrating. A tunable oscillator can be useful to sweep the lower frequencies to find the frequency of the vibration so it can be eliminated. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From TWRumohr at comcast.net Wed Feb 11 16:22:40 2009 From: TWRumohr at comcast.net (Terry Rumohr) Date: Sat Feb 14 19:33:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NEWBIE QUESTIONS: Rock-ola 450 & 454 Message-ID: <813FC85998134AE6BC0ACC28E9E5EF5B@RUMOHRS> I have Rockola 454 and having troubles with my gripper. Its seems that one of the back gears is off a half tooth. The gripper turn over gear and the gripper release gear assy doesnt mesh with the gripper shaft gear. The gears teeth stop on each other Tooth to Tooth. When I take off the gripper release gear assy. I can turn the the gripper by hand and the gripper pulls the record and places it on the turn table and also puts the record back in the carraige. But when I put the the gear back on and aline the gear teeth to the gripper shaft gear. The gripper turn over gear tooth mesh tooth to tooth. What can I do to correct this problem. Thanks Terry From wbabbott at verizon.net Sat Feb 14 20:12:23 2009 From: wbabbott at verizon.net (Britt Abbott) Date: Sat Feb 14 21:14:52 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Message-ID: <271260261.11988951234671143361.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Hello David.... last time I looked Stamanns Jukebox site in Germany has the rebuilt armature for the Rockola gripper motor for $119. I believe they ask for you to send them your old armature and they send you a rebuilt one. Oliver and Hildegard Stamann are very helpful and great to deal with! Here's their website: http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/Price-List-2007.pdf Britt Chesapeake, VA USA On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:26 PM, david wrote: > Hello > I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator is > completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if > anyone else > has done this? > Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone > point > me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a little > concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a very > worn > armature so I will be no better off. > Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as > those I > have seen all look very similar > Thanks > David > David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 14 22:07:02 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 14 22:10:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Speaker Isolation ? Message-ID: <20090215.010702.1912.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: With the 40's era Wurlitzer jukes, the single 15" speaker was mounted to a small baffleboard that was rubber-shock mounted to the jukebox cabinet. The prime reasoin for doing this was to reduce the possibility of acoustic feedback (howling sound, normally associated with microphone use) at high volume settings. By today's standards the bass response in these machines is boomy-sounding and not accurate. Also, filter and tone control circuits used in later 50's amplifiers were able to be built with steeper filter slopes. Speakers in 50's -up jukes need to be properly mounted to the baffleboards--otherwise low end response will suffer. If there is a problem with other hardware in the cabinet rattling with bass frequencies, the rattle should be located and stopped at the source. Dried out rubber insulation around dome glasses are a frequent contributor. The fit between the dome door and the cabinet, if loose, can cause rattles. Going to a home improvement store (Home Depot, Lowes, etc) and picking up some adhesive backed foam insulation will work wonders for problems like this. Using a sine wave sweep-tone audio generator into the sound system helps find offending rattles, vibrations more easily. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here for the latest treatment options for depression! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx99pFmfG35FLIoHQi9Ta4SopPOe4I05IrNwpxuYFS9NhXDjQ/ From Jjmscf at aol.com Sun Feb 15 06:54:33 2009 From: Jjmscf at aol.com (Jjmscf@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 15 07:02:00 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 Message-ID: You wouldn't happen to have a copy of the bulletin or know what cap values were changed? I have an LPC1 that sounds good when cranked up loud but when turned down to lower listening levels it is pretty muddy sounding to me. J.C. In a message dated 2/14/2009 7:51:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jalexandercc@netzero.net writes: Seeburg issued an upgrade bulletin changing some caps in the treble tone control circuit of the TSA1 amplifier (in '64 I think) that extended the high end boost response further. An amp equipped with this modification made a noticeable difference in tonal balance. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From lralkie at shaw.ca Sun Feb 15 08:07:51 2009 From: lralkie at shaw.ca (Len Ralkie) Date: Sun Feb 15 08:09:05 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NEWBIE QUESTIONS: Rock-ola 450 & 454 References: <813FC85998134AE6BC0ACC28E9E5EF5B@RUMOHRS> Message-ID: When I first got my 429 it was doing the same thing. It turned out to be a broken stop pin on the body of the gripper. The pin is behing the gear and stops it from over-riding. Mine broke off flush to the body and was almost impossible to notice. It might also need the cam adjusted slightly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Rumohr" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] NEWBIE QUESTIONS: Rock-ola 450 & 454 I have Rockola 454 and having troubles with my gripper. Its seems that one of the back gears is off a half tooth. The gripper turn over gear and the gripper release gear assy doesnt mesh with the gripper shaft gear. The gears teeth stop on each other Tooth to Tooth. When I take off the gripper release gear assy. I can turn the the gripper by hand and the gripper pulls the record and places it on the turn table and also puts the record back in the carraige. But when I put the the gear back on and aline the gear teeth to the gripper shaft gear. The gripper turn over gear tooth mesh tooth to tooth. What can I do to correct this problem. Thanks Terry _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From lralkie at shaw.ca Sun Feb 15 08:14:01 2009 From: lralkie at shaw.ca (Len Ralkie) Date: Sun Feb 15 08:15:13 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor References: <59B9EA8A4C444F2285C966127F56E4F1@Lyn> Message-ID: <875A686DD9134784A3E9C910AC4C0693@your4dacd0ea75> I don't know where you are located but I would check in the phone bood for conpanies that rebuild electric motors. Most have the capability to rewind and rebuild motors and comutators, not matter whas size and voltage. Over the years I've had a couple of odd coils and motors rewound and they work fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "david" To: Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator is completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if anyone else has done this? Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone point me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a little concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a very worn armature so I will be no better off. Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as those I have seen all look very similar Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sun Feb 15 08:16:16 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sun Feb 15 08:17:30 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor In-Reply-To: <271260261.11988951234671143361.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <90434DD8A2F7459EA52A1B6D491ACDDA@Lyn> Thanks Britt Unfortunately due to the uk exchange rate that will have to wait a while, 119 euros is a lot of money! But when things have sorted themselves out a new one would be great. In the meantime I will take a risk on a second hand motor and I have some ideas on rebuilding the commutator. I will let the list know if it works. David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 04:12 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David.... last time I looked Stamanns Jukebox site in Germany has the rebuilt armature for the Rockola gripper motor for $119. I believe they ask for you to send them your old armature and they send you a rebuilt one. Oliver and Hildegard Stamann are very helpful and great to deal with! Here's their website: http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/Price-List-2007.pdf Britt Chesapeake, VA USA On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:26 PM, david wrote: > Hello > I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator is > completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if > anyone else has done this? > Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone > point > me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a little > concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a very > worn > armature so I will be no better off. > Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as > those I > have seen all look very similar > Thanks > David > David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sun Feb 15 08:45:15 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 15 08:48:05 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 Message-ID: <20090215.114515.12328.0@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: I'm going to try to locate this 2 pg service bulletin regarding changing the treble boost circuit for the Seeburg TSA1 blue-colored amplifier. I'll scan it and publish it here. I believe this modification was issued by Seeburg--it was not an aftermarket thing. This modification was issued due to complaints about dull sound quality of the LPC and LPC-480 models at background volume settings. This mod will provide more treble boost with the treble switches in the "max" setting only. The other settings remain unchanged. Several caps and resistors get changed in the process. Supposedly, this change was built incorporated into the next-generation amplifier. I believe that one had a lavender-color chassis, for the PFAEU models? Over the last several years, I've modified 4 or 5 TSA1 amplifiers with this----It makes an appreciable difference in sound quality. The drawback is that I've built up a paper service library of juke manuals, bulletins, etc that take up 8 file cabinet drawers. I've got it somewhat organized,but it can be time consuming to find and dig up an obscure document. I'll publish it as soon as I can get to it. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9K1th8OejeWIzlzqvXH3sgFLLCw78iUZVMvEqQORUJZFlh0/ From wbabbott at verizon.net Sun Feb 15 10:07:22 2009 From: wbabbott at verizon.net (Britt Abbott) Date: Sun Feb 15 10:08:39 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Message-ID: <14888381.12307791234721242577.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> David, that was $119US which would probably be a little less in Euros...but still, alotta money. I have a few 1950s Rockolas and my 1438 gripper motor eventually went South. I thought it just needed replacement brushes, but new brushes didn't fix it, so rather than trying to rebuild it further I found a motor on Ebay for about $30.00. When I got it, I stripped it down, cleaned it, oiled it, and put in the new brushes and it worked like a champ...a little noisy due to new brushes, but they'll wear in. Unfortunately for you in UK, the total cost including shipping of a used gripper motor from the USA would end up costing you the $119 that an armature from Stamanns would cost. You might want to contact Stamanns to see if they might just sell you the parts to rebuild the commutator. Britt On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:16 AM, david wrote: > Thanks Britt Unfortunately due to the uk exchange rate that will have to wait a while, 119 euros is a lot of money! But when things have sorted themselves out a new one would be great. In the meantime I will take a risk on a second hand motor and I have some ideas on rebuilding the commutator. I will let the list know if it works. David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com ? [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] ? ?On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 04:12 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David.... last time I looked Stamanns Jukebox site in Germany has the rebuilt armature for the Rockola gripper motor for $119. I believe they ask for you to send them your old armature and they send you a rebuilt one. Oliver and Hildegard Stamann are very helpful and great to deal with! Here's their website: http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/Price-List-2007.pdf ? Britt Chesapeake, VA USA On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at? 8:26 PM, david wrote: > Hello > ? I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator > is completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if > anyone else has done this? > Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone > point > me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a little > concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a very > worn > armature so I will be no better off. > Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as > those I > have seen all look very similar > ? Thanks > David > ? David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com ? > > www.bowater.org.uk ? > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > ? > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > ? > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list ? _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list ? From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sun Feb 15 11:19:03 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:20:14 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor In-Reply-To: <14888381.12307791234721242577.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <5B7C8D582FD64F40908A5C9CF945A67A@Lyn> Hi Brett, I should have said I checked the price list to get 119 euros, web site says 126 euros. I like the idea of just getting the commutator parts. I will ask. I have found motors her for about ?25 untested. So am not sure if the same problem would show itself. Interestingly I have checked the carousel motor and the bushes are worn but only half way down. Also the part number is incorrect 47702-A and not 47698-A. As Ron Rich suggested my machine is a 448 and the gripper motor is part number 47698-A, so if anyone knows other interchangeable motors that would be great to know Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 18:07 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor David, that was $119US which would probably be a little less in Euros...but still, alotta money. I have a few 1950s Rockolas and my 1438 gripper motor eventually went South. I thought it just needed replacement brushes, but new brushes didn't fix it, so rather than trying to rebuild it further I found a motor on Ebay for about $30.00. When I got it, I stripped it down, cleaned it, oiled it, and put in the new brushes and it worked like a champ...a little noisy due to new brushes, but they'll wear in. Unfortunately for you in UK, the total cost including shipping of a used gripper motor from the USA would end up costing you the $119 that an armature from Stamanns would cost. You might want to contact Stamanns to see if they might just sell you the parts to rebuild the commutator. Britt On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:16 AM, david wrote: > Thanks Britt Unfortunately due to the uk exchange rate that will have to wait a while, 119 euros is a lot of money! But when things have sorted themselves out a new one would be great. In the meantime I will take a risk on a second hand motor and I have some ideas on rebuilding the commutator. I will let the list know if it works. David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com ? [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] ? ?On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 04:12 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David.... last time I looked Stamanns Jukebox site in Germany has the rebuilt armature for the Rockola gripper motor for $119. I believe they ask for you to send them your old armature and they send you a rebuilt one. Oliver and Hildegard Stamann are very helpful and great to deal with! Here's their website: http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/Price-List-2007.pdf ? Britt Chesapeake, VA USA On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at? 8:26 PM, david wrote: > Hello > ? I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator > is completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if > anyone else has done this? > Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone > point > me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a little > concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a very > worn > armature so I will be no better off. > Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as > those I > have seen all look very similar > ? Thanks > David > ? David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com ? > > www.bowater.org.uk ? > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > ? > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > ? > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list ? _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list ? _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From stamann at jukebox-world.de Sun Feb 15 11:40:23 2009 From: stamann at jukebox-world.de (Stamann) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:42:00 2009 Subject: AW: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Message-ID: Hello David, we recently had to raise the price for the rebuild armatures as the workshop who rebuilds them for us raised prices. Due to high labour costs in Germany they are expensive but we are still glad that we can offer these armatures. Rock-Ola motors from the 70's can be found for reasonable prices in Europe and the US - it's getting more difficult for good Wurlitzer motors. Kind regards - Oliver Stamann ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ All about Jukeboxes: mailorder business, classified ads, forum, archive and serial number database at www.jukebox-world.de/index_en.html -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von david Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Februar 2009 20:30 An: 'Jukebox mailing list' Betreff: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hi Brett, I should have said I checked the price list to get 119 euros, web site says 126 euros. I like the idea of just getting the commutator parts. I will ask. I have found motors her for about ?25 untested. So am not sure if the same problem would show itself. Interestingly I have checked the carousel motor and the bushes are worn but only half way down. Also the part number is incorrect 47702-A and not 47698-A. As Ron Rich suggested my machine is a 448 and the gripper motor is part number 47698-A, so if anyone knows other interchangeable motors that would be great to know Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 18:07 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor David, that was $119US which would probably be a little less in Euros...but still, alotta money. I have a few 1950s Rockolas and my 1438 gripper motor eventually went South. I thought it just needed replacement brushes, but new brushes didn't fix it, so rather than trying to rebuild it further I found a motor on Ebay for about $30.00. When I got it, I stripped it down, cleaned it, oiled it, and put in the new brushes and it worked like a champ...a little noisy due to new brushes, but they'll wear in. Unfortunately for you in UK, the total cost including shipping of a used gripper motor from the USA would end up costing you the $119 that an armature from Stamanns would cost. You might want to contact Stamanns to see if they might just sell you the parts to rebuild the commutator. Britt On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:16 AM, david wrote: > Thanks Britt Unfortunately due to the uk exchange rate that will have to wait a while, 119 euros is a lot of money! But when things have sorted themselves out a new one would be great. In the meantime I will take a risk on a second hand motor and I have some ideas on rebuilding the commutator. I will let the list know if it works. David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] ?On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 04:12 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David.... last time I looked Stamanns Jukebox site in Germany has the rebuilt armature for the Rockola gripper motor for $119. I believe they ask for you to send them your old armature and they send you a rebuilt one. Oliver and Hildegard Stamann are very helpful and great to deal with! Here's their website: http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/Price-List-2007.pdf Britt Chesapeake, VA USA On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at? 8:26 PM, david wrote: > Hello > ? I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator > is completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if > anyone else has done this? > Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone > point me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a > little concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a > very worn armature so I will be no better off. > Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as > those I have seen all look very similar > ? Thanks > David > ? David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com ? > > www.bowater.org.uk ? > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sun Feb 15 11:56:35 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:57:47 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9412A60E41AA4A758C228DEB30A94816@Lyn> Hi Oliver A few months ago I would have said they were good value, but for us Brits the exchange rate has made everything European very expensive. When the exchange rate gets back to "normal" then I will be interested. In the meantime I will look for a second-hand motor and look at a commutator repair. I assume you do not have access to new commutator parts? I will also be talking to uk based armature repairers. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Stamann Sent: 15 February 2009 19:40 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: AW: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David, we recently had to raise the price for the rebuild armatures as the workshop who rebuilds them for us raised prices. Due to high labour costs in Germany they are expensive but we are still glad that we can offer these armatures. Rock-Ola motors from the 70's can be found for reasonable prices in Europe and the US - it's getting more difficult for good Wurlitzer motors. Kind regards - Oliver Stamann ____________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________ All about Jukeboxes: mailorder business, classified ads, forum, archive and serial number database at www.jukebox-world.de/index_en.html -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von david Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Februar 2009 20:30 An: 'Jukebox mailing list' Betreff: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hi Brett, I should have said I checked the price list to get 119 euros, web site says 126 euros. I like the idea of just getting the commutator parts. I will ask. I have found motors her for about ?25 untested. So am not sure if the same problem would show itself. Interestingly I have checked the carousel motor and the bushes are worn but only half way down. Also the part number is incorrect 47702-A and not 47698-A. As Ron Rich suggested my machine is a 448 and the gripper motor is part number 47698-A, so if anyone knows other interchangeable motors that would be great to know Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 18:07 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor David, that was $119US which would probably be a little less in Euros...but still, alotta money. I have a few 1950s Rockolas and my 1438 gripper motor eventually went South. I thought it just needed replacement brushes, but new brushes didn't fix it, so rather than trying to rebuild it further I found a motor on Ebay for about $30.00. When I got it, I stripped it down, cleaned it, oiled it, and put in the new brushes and it worked like a champ...a little noisy due to new brushes, but they'll wear in. Unfortunately for you in UK, the total cost including shipping of a used gripper motor from the USA would end up costing you the $119 that an armature from Stamanns would cost. You might want to contact Stamanns to see if they might just sell you the parts to rebuild the commutator. Britt On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:16 AM, david wrote: > Thanks Britt Unfortunately due to the uk exchange rate that will have to wait a while, 119 euros is a lot of money! But when things have sorted themselves out a new one would be great. In the meantime I will take a risk on a second hand motor and I have some ideas on rebuilding the commutator. I will let the list know if it works. David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] ?On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 04:12 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David.... last time I looked Stamanns Jukebox site in Germany has the rebuilt armature for the Rockola gripper motor for $119. I believe they ask for you to send them your old armature and they send you a rebuilt one. Oliver and Hildegard Stamann are very helpful and great to deal with! Here's their website: http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/Price-List-2007.pdf Britt Chesapeake, VA USA On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at? 8:26 PM, david wrote: > Hello > ? I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator > is completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if > anyone else has done this? > Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone > point me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a > little concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a > very worn armature so I will be no better off. > Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as > those I have seen all look very similar > ? Thanks > David > ? David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com ? > > www.bowater.org.uk ? > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk Sun Feb 15 12:08:11 2009 From: pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk (Nigel Pugh) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:09:27 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor In-Reply-To: <9412A60E41AA4A758C228DEB30A94816@Lyn> References: <9412A60E41AA4A758C228DEB30A94816@Lyn> Message-ID: <002e01c98fa9$20e87500$62b95f00$@force9.co.uk> David, Try: http://www.jukeboxparts.co.uk/RockolaSpares2.htm The later gripper motors will work fine - the only difference likely to be the power connector. Regards Nigel -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of david Sent: 15 February 2009 19:57 To: 'Jukebox mailing list' Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hi Oliver A few months ago I would have said they were good value, but for us Brits the exchange rate has made everything European very expensive. When the exchange rate gets back to "normal" then I will be interested. In the meantime I will look for a second-hand motor and look at a commutator repair. I assume you do not have access to new commutator parts? I will also be talking to uk based armature repairers. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Stamann Sent: 15 February 2009 19:40 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: AW: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David, we recently had to raise the price for the rebuild armatures as the workshop who rebuilds them for us raised prices. Due to high labour costs in Germany they are expensive but we are still glad that we can offer these armatures. Rock-Ola motors from the 70's can be found for reasonable prices in Europe and the US - it's getting more difficult for good Wurlitzer motors. Kind regards - Oliver Stamann ____________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________ All about Jukeboxes: mailorder business, classified ads, forum, archive and serial number database at www.jukebox-world.de/index_en.html -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von david Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Februar 2009 20:30 An: 'Jukebox mailing list' Betreff: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hi Brett, I should have said I checked the price list to get 119 euros, web site says 126 euros. I like the idea of just getting the commutator parts. I will ask. I have found motors her for about ?25 untested. So am not sure if the same problem would show itself. Interestingly I have checked the carousel motor and the bushes are worn but only half way down. Also the part number is incorrect 47702-A and not 47698-A. As Ron Rich suggested my machine is a 448 and the gripper motor is part number 47698-A, so if anyone knows other interchangeable motors that would be great to know Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 18:07 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor David, that was $119US which would probably be a little less in Euros...but still, alotta money. I have a few 1950s Rockolas and my 1438 gripper motor eventually went South. I thought it just needed replacement brushes, but new brushes didn't fix it, so rather than trying to rebuild it further I found a motor on Ebay for about $30.00. When I got it, I stripped it down, cleaned it, oiled it, and put in the new brushes and it worked like a champ...a little noisy due to new brushes, but they'll wear in. Unfortunately for you in UK, the total cost including shipping of a used gripper motor from the USA would end up costing you the $119 that an armature from Stamanns would cost. You might want to contact Stamanns to see if they might just sell you the parts to rebuild the commutator. Britt On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:16 AM, david wrote: > Thanks Britt Unfortunately due to the uk exchange rate that will have to wait a while, 119 euros is a lot of money! But when things have sorted themselves out a new one would be great. In the meantime I will take a risk on a second hand motor and I have some ideas on rebuilding the commutator. I will let the list know if it works. David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] ?On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 04:12 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David.... last time I looked Stamanns Jukebox site in Germany has the rebuilt armature for the Rockola gripper motor for $119. I believe they ask for you to send them your old armature and they send you a rebuilt one. Oliver and Hildegard Stamann are very helpful and great to deal with! Here's their website: http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/Price-List-2007.pdf Britt Chesapeake, VA USA On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at? 8:26 PM, david wrote: > Hello > ? I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator > is completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if > anyone else has done this? > Also I am looking for a source of new old stock armatures can anyone > point me to a possible supplier (preferably in the uk). I am just a > little concerned that if I buy a motor second hand it may also have a > very worn armature so I will be no better off. > Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as > those I have seen all look very similar > ? Thanks > David > ? David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com ? > > www.bowater.org.uk ? > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From nmacrae23 at btinternet.com Sun Feb 15 12:13:35 2009 From: nmacrae23 at btinternet.com (NORMAN MACRAE) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:14:46 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor References: <9412A60E41AA4A758C228DEB30A94816@Lyn> Message-ID: <876183.21779.qm@web86705.mail.ird.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: david To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Sunday, 15 February, 2009 7:56:35 PM Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hi Oliver When the exchange rate gets back to "normal" Regards David Hey David, I just have to say that I admire your optimism! From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sun Feb 15 12:54:06 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:55:17 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor In-Reply-To: <876183.21779.qm@web86705.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2353A0154E1541DBBAFFE8AD5ADB42D9@Lyn> Yeah, well we can all dream! lol David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of NORMAN MACRAE Sent: 15 February 2009 20:14 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor ________________________________ From: david To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Sunday, 15 February, 2009 7:56:35 PM Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hi Oliver When the exchange rate gets back to "normal" Regards David Hey David, I just have to say that I admire your optimism! _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sun Feb 15 12:56:15 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:57:26 2009 Subject: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor In-Reply-To: <002e01c98fa9$20e87500$62b95f00$@force9.co.uk> Message-ID: <91D0612621AB4D5FAEC8FB0D269C02D3@Lyn> Nigel, just found that page myself, but the confirmation that all the later ones will work is very helpful Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Pugh Sent: 15 February 2009 20:08 To: 'Jukebox mailing list' Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor David, Try: http://www.jukeboxparts.co.uk/RockolaSpares2.htm The later gripper motors will work fine - the only difference likely to be the power connector. Regards Nigel -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of david Sent: 15 February 2009 19:57 To: 'Jukebox mailing list' Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hi Oliver A few months ago I would have said they were good value, but for us Brits the exchange rate has made everything European very expensive. When the exchange rate gets back to "normal" then I will be interested. In the meantime I will look for a second-hand motor and look at a commutator repair. I assume you do not have access to new commutator parts? I will also be talking to uk based armature repairers. Regards David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Stamann Sent: 15 February 2009 19:40 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: AW: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David, we recently had to raise the price for the rebuild armatures as the workshop who rebuilds them for us raised prices. Due to high labour costs in Germany they are expensive but we are still glad that we can offer these armatures. Rock-Ola motors from the 70's can be found for reasonable prices in Europe and the US - it's getting more difficult for good Wurlitzer motors. Kind regards - Oliver Stamann ____________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________ All about Jukeboxes: mailorder business, classified ads, forum, archive and serial number database at www.jukebox-world.de/index_en.html -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von david Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Februar 2009 20:30 An: 'Jukebox mailing list' Betreff: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hi Brett, I should have said I checked the price list to get 119 euros, web site says 126 euros. I like the idea of just getting the commutator parts. I will ask. I have found motors her for about ?25 untested. So am not sure if the same problem would show itself. Interestingly I have checked the carousel motor and the bushes are worn but only half way down. Also the part number is incorrect 47702-A and not 47698-A. As Ron Rich suggested my machine is a 448 and the gripper motor is part number 47698-A, so if anyone knows other interchangeable motors that would be great to know Thanks David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 18:07 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor David, that was $119US which would probably be a little less in Euros...but still, alotta money. I have a few 1950s Rockolas and my 1438 gripper motor eventually went South. I thought it just needed replacement brushes, but new brushes didn't fix it, so rather than trying to rebuild it further I found a motor on Ebay for about $30.00. When I got it, I stripped it down, cleaned it, oiled it, and put in the new brushes and it worked like a champ...a little noisy due to new brushes, but they'll wear in. Unfortunately for you in UK, the total cost including shipping of a used gripper motor from the USA would end up costing you the $119 that an armature from Stamanns would cost. You might want to contact Stamanns to see if they might just sell you the parts to rebuild the commutator. Britt On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:16 AM, david wrote: > Thanks Britt Unfortunately due to the uk exchange rate that will have to wait a while, 119 euros is a lot of money! But when things have sorted themselves out a new one would be great. In the meantime I will take a risk on a second hand motor and I have some ideas on rebuilding the commutator. I will let the list know if it works. David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] ?On Behalf Of Britt Abbott Sent: 15 February 2009 04:12 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [jukebox-list] Rock-ola gripper motor Hello David.... last time I looked Stamanns Jukebox site in Germany has the rebuilt armature for the Rockola gripper motor for $119. I believe they ask for you to send them your old armature and they send you a rebuilt one. Oliver and Hildegard Stamann are very helpful and great to deal with! Here's their website: http://www.jukebox-world.de/shop/Price-List-2007.pdf Britt Chesapeake, VA USA On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at? 8:26 PM, david wrote: > Hello > ? I have now stripped my gripper motor and found that the commutator > is completely worn out, I intend to attempt a repair so wondered if > anyone else has done this? Also I am looking for a source of new old > stock armatures can anyone point me to a possible supplier (preferably > in the uk). I am just a little concerned that if I buy a motor second > hand it may also have a very worn armature so I will be no better off. > Can anyone confirm that other rock-ola machines motors will fit as > those I have seen all look very similar > ? Thanks > David > ? David Bowater > www.bwds-online.com ? > > www.bowater.org.uk ? > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > > > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com ? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Sun Feb 15 15:29:14 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:30:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 selection issued Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have a wurlitzer 6210 that when a selection was made, it would pick the b side, or the next record over, all of this sporatically. It was suggested to me to clean the contact under each switch but not to remove them, to clean them with deoxit dp 5. I did this, spraying all the buttom contacts from the under side as well as the selector switch assy contacts, etc. Now, when I turn the box on, the switches no longer lock down as the solenoid does not fire. The two tube style resistors on the switch assy an 85 ohm and a 150 ohm, release a bit of smoke. I turned the box off, used compressed air to blow everything out, and tried again, same thing this time only the resistors took longer to start to smoke. I turned off the box, used straight tuner wash, I guess some of the deoxit was shorting something. everything seems dry, but maybe the damage is done. Do you think the resistors are shot? Or do you think they will dry out assuming the last cleaning did not work. Thanks you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009 From JHayes2613 at aol.com Sun Feb 15 17:58:45 2009 From: JHayes2613 at aol.com (John Hayes) Date: Sun Feb 15 18:11:02 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 (Continued...) In-Reply-To: <20090215.114515.12328.0@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090215.114515.12328.0@webmail19.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <2CBCD6D0-3CF1-448E-B249-51F20E7523B9@aol.com> Veering away from the topic of the amp here... if I have a mech with a motor than turns but the mech will not scan, could this possibly mean a gunky clutch? TIA- j On Feb 15, 2009, at 10:45 AM, James Alexander wrote: > > Gentlemen: > I'm going to try to locate this 2 pg service bulletin regarding > changing the treble boost circuit for the Seeburg TSA1 blue-colored > amplifier. I'll scan it and publish it here. I believe this > modification was issued by Seeburg--it was not an aftermarket > thing. This modification was issued due to > complaints about dull sound quality of the LPC and LPC-480 models at > background volume > settings > . This > mod will provide more treble boost with the treble switches in the > "max" setting only. The other settings remain unchanged. Several > caps and resistors get changed in the process. Supposedly, this > change was built incorporated into the next-generation amplifier. I > believe that one had a lavender-color chassis, for the PFAEU > models? Over the last several > years, I've modified 4 or 5 TSA1 amplifiers with this----It makes an > appreciable difference in sound quality. > The drawback is that I've built up a paper service library of juke > manuals, bulletins, etc that take up 8 file cabinet drawers. I've > got it somewhat organized,but it can be time consuming to find and > dig up an obscure document. I'll publish it as > soon as I can get to it. > Jim Alexander > ____________________________________________________________ > Are you overpaying for motorcycle insurance? Get a quote today. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9K1th8OejeWIzlzqvXH3sgFLLCw78iUZVMvEqQORUJZFlh0/ > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Sun Feb 15 19:18:17 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Sun Feb 15 19:19:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 selection issued In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4998DAF9.5020405@west.net> Bryan Shaw wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I have a wurlitzer 6210 that when a selection was made, it would pick the b side, or the next record over, all of this sporatically. It was suggested to me to clean the contact under each switch but not to remove them, to clean them with deoxit dp 5. I did this, spraying all the buttom contacts from the under side as well as the selector switch assy contacts, etc. Now, when I turn the box on, the switches no longer lock down as the solenoid does not fire. The two tube style resistors on the switch assy an 85 ohm and a 150 ohm, release a bit of smoke. I turned the box off, used compressed air to blow everything out, and tried again, same thing this time only the resistors took longer to start to smoke. I turned off the box, used straight tuner wash, I guess some of the deoxit was shorting something. > everything seems dry, but maybe the damage is done. Do you think the resistors are shot? Or do you think they will dry out assuming the last cleaning did not work. Wurlitzer 6210? Perhaps you meant 2610? Aerosol Deoxit is volatile The smoke may be the Deoxit burning off. Power resistors often get rather hot. The original problem may be the backstop pawls, not the switches. Under the record carousel are a pair of "clickers" that engage teeth cast into the base just inside of the popularity meters. As part of the selection process, the carousel turns backwards very briefly just before the record lift arms come up. This backward rotation is supposed to be stopped by the stop pawl at just the right spot where the record is aligned with the slot. If the pawls are gummed up or out of alignment, the wrong record is selected. Clean the pawls with some degreaser and see if that solves the problem. They should snap quickly by the spring and not be sluggish. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sun Feb 15 21:40:34 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 15 21:43:36 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 (Continued...) Message-ID: <20090216.004034.27689.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> Yes, that could be the problem. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click to see huge collection of discounted designer watches. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8u8t6c5baxZcjKaVotBNDP5VdHh2rajMfXstCKQ39Kf6a78/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sun Feb 15 21:56:34 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 15 21:57:17 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 selection issued Message-ID: <20090216.005634.27689.1@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> Hello Bryan: RE: your Wurl 2610: >From your description, you've got problems in more than one area. First, the 2 hot-running resistors are current limiting devices in the latching solenoid ckt. on the keyboard. These 5 watt resistors will run hot if the keyboard is engaged (the "select" is on) for extended periods. You can measure the value of the resistor (too determine if it's damaged) by disconnecting one lead of it and measuring the resistor value with a meter across the resistor. If the value is off off the printed values by more than 20% , replace the resistor. By replacing the 5 watt rated resistors with 10 or 20 watt versions, they will not run as hot. With regard to the erratic selections, after writing in a letter-number check in the rear of the machine to see if a selector pin has been fired and released. You should repeat this test for all the selection numbers (one at a time) that are giving you trouble. If all pins are firing correctly, then the error is occuring in the mechanical scanning and pickup operations of the mech. What conditions Jay Hennigan has described would apply here. Hope this helps. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click for discounts on highest quality pearls and jewelry. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8ukeIxcFh4aOf4wPUHI765sY34tUMxwQs5lKi2E0YqVlvo6/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 21:59:28 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 15 22:00:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 selection issued In-Reply-To: <4998DAF9.5020405@west.net> Message-ID: <580599.43394.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I agree with Jay--however need to caution you that you need to watch what you "spray" on the bs pawls--be sure that 1. it's "plastic safe (Records are there !), and 2. It drys without leaving anything, as the bs pawls need to be clean and dry-- BTW, the way to check the operation of the pawls, is to look and see which pin the ES is releasing. If it's the right pin, but the wrong selection is playing, it's almost always a bs pawl problem. Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: From: Jay Hennigan Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 selection issued To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 7:18 PM Bryan Shaw wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I have a wurlitzer 6210 that when a selection was made, it would pick the b side, or the next record over, all of this sporatically. It was suggested to me to clean the contact under each switch but not to remove them, to clean them with deoxit dp 5. I did this, spraying all the buttom contacts from the under side as well as the selector switch assy contacts, etc. Now, when I turn the box on, the switches no longer lock down as the solenoid does not fire. The two tube style resistors on the switch assy an 85 ohm and a 150 ohm, release a bit of smoke. I turned the box off, used compressed air to blow everything out, and tried again, same thing this time only the resistors took longer to start to smoke. I turned off the box, used straight tuner wash, I guess some of the deoxit was shorting something. everything seems dry, but maybe the damage is done. Do you think the resistors are shot? Or do you think they will dry out assuming the last cleaning did not work. Wurlitzer 6210? Perhaps you meant 2610? Aerosol Deoxit is volatile The smoke may be the Deoxit burning off. Power resistors often get rather hot. The original problem may be the backstop pawls, not the switches. Under the record carousel are a pair of "clickers" that engage teeth cast into the base just inside of the popularity meters. As part of the selection process, the carousel turns backwards very briefly just before the record lift arms come up. This backward rotation is supposed to be stopped by the stop pawl at just the right spot where the record is aligned with the slot. If the pawls are gummed up or out of alignment, the wrong record is selected. Clean the pawls with some degreaser and see if that solves the problem. They should snap quickly by the spring and not be sluggish. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From JHayes2613 at aol.com Mon Feb 16 04:27:48 2009 From: JHayes2613 at aol.com (John Hayes) Date: Mon Feb 16 04:35:15 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 (Continued...) In-Reply-To: <20090216.004034.27689.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090216.004034.27689.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <53D17304-F97E-42FE-95F7-FECF344CD12F@aol.com> Is cleaning the clutch assembly easy? On Feb 15, 2009, at 11:40 PM, James Alexander wrote: > > Yes, that could be the problem. > Jim Alexander > ____________________________________________________________ > Click to see huge collection of discounted designer watches. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8u8t6c5baxZcjKaVotBNDP5VdHh2rajMfXstCKQ39Kf6a78/ > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Mon Feb 16 06:22:32 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Mon Feb 16 06:23:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 Message-ID: Hi all, I posted yesterday about a wurlitzer 2610 that after I cleaned the selection assy and switches with cleaner, the letter and numbers would not lock down.. I worked with it some more and have discovered the solenoide that locks the keys down buzzes a bit at power up. When I manually activate the solenoide, it stays activated. When I press a number key, again, nothing. At that point, when I press a letter key again, the soleniode disengages on it's own. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Mon Feb 16 06:42:12 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Mon Feb 16 06:43:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wirlitzer 2610 Message-ID: Hi again Not to beat this one to death, but here goes again. The 2610 I described earlier is kinda working. The selection assy solenoide does buzz a bit as if it is trying to fire. When I fire it by hand, press a number button and then press a letter selection, it then loads a record and plays. I'm getting close, but I am afraid I'll make a mess if I keep playing with it. Any advice is appreciated. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From gibson510 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 16 07:26:31 2009 From: gibson510 at hotmail.com (rick murray) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:27:43 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 61 (again) Message-ID: I'm having difficulty tracking down a replacement contactor switch for the Model 61 table top I'm restoring. It is part of the Magazine Switch Assembly. The original was a microswitch part # R-R10, (wurlitzer part # 25558) I spoke with the folks at Honeywell (formerly Microswitch) and their records do not go back that far. Cherry microswitch attempted to cross reference for me but no luck either. Does anyone know where I can obtain one of these? Thanks! Rick _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009 From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 08:51:19 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:52:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wirlitzer 2610 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <625635.4725.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bryan, Very simple--Clean the open blade set of?switches that the solenoid moves. The NC contact is dirty/burned, or mis-adjusted. Do NOT use "De-Ox-It", or anything that leaves a "coating" on that type of open blade contact, as it usually will cause them to fail. Use a "Plastic safe" "safety solvent" only, then a burnishing tool to smooth the silver contact. If burned too badly, CAREFULLY use a file, then the burnishing tool---the contacts?may need to be changed, if they have too little silver left. Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Bryan Shaw wrote: From: Bryan Shaw Subject: [Jukebox-list] wirlitzer 2610 To: "jukebox group" Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 6:42 AM Hi again Not to beat this one to death, but here goes again. The 2610 I described earlier is kinda working. The selection assy solenoide does buzz a bit as if it is trying to fire. When I fire it by hand, press a number button and then press a letter selection, it then loads a record and plays. I'm getting close, but I am afraid I'll make a mess if I keep playing with it. Any advice is appreciated. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jpoe at dsldata.com Mon Feb 16 11:31:39 2009 From: jpoe at dsldata.com (Jim Poe) Date: Mon Feb 16 11:39:04 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: AMI G leather strap PHOTOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4999BF1B.5050607@dsldata.com> Hi Kyle, I know this thread is nearly 2 years old, but I need to bring it back to life. Finally got my G-200 painted and re-assembled. The strap that holds the lid finally gave way and I need to replace it. Did you ever find something to make them out of that wouldn't stretch? Looks like the original was some sort of PLEATHER. Thanks Jim Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote: > > OK, here's some photos of the strap I made. > > Once I find something that won't stretch, I'll make a few up and let > everyone know. I may just make them short and instruct everyone to prop > their door open overnight once I figure out how much to subtract. I > like the material I'm using a LOT. It's strong and soft. No scratching > the paint or chrome. > > Attached to door. You can see the result of it stretching after being > left up over night. You can also see the grommet I installed on the > strap under the C/E clip. > Is someone could measure this distance on an "F" of this, it would > help. I think it was 12" on the G. > Measure center of base post to snap post. > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JimDouglasJr/ondoor.jpg > > The snap end. A very dependable and sturdy snap. > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JimDouglasJr/thesnap.jpg > > Securely snapped to the top of the juke. Must be pulled straight off to > release. Can't slide off. > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JimDouglasJr/snapped.jpg > > > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > > _________________________________________________________________ > The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by > Experian. > http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 11:49:00 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 16 11:50:11 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: AMI G leather strap PHOTOS In-Reply-To: <4999BF1B.5050607@dsldata.com> Message-ID: <92403.98141.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Jim, This ain't Kyle, but I think it was leather ?--anyway, I have had a local "shoemaker" make them for me in the past--just take in what remains, and have him copy it-- Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Jim Poe wrote: From: Jim Poe Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] RE: AMI G leather strap PHOTOS To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 11:31 AM Hi Kyle, I know this thread is nearly 2 years old, but I need to bring it back to life. Finally got my G-200 painted and re-assembled. The strap that holds the lid finally gave way and I need to replace it. Did you ever find something to make them out of that wouldn't stretch? Looks like the original was some sort of PLEATHER. Thanks Jim Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote: > > OK, here's some photos of the strap I made. > > Once I find something that won't stretch, I'll make a few up and let everyone know. I may just make them short and instruct everyone to prop their door open overnight once I figure out how much to subtract. I like the material I'm using a LOT. It's strong and soft. No scratching the paint or chrome. > > Attached to door. You can see the result of it stretching after being left up over night. You can also see the grommet I installed on the strap under the C/E clip. > Is someone could measure this distance on an "F" of this, it would help. I think it was 12" on the G. > Measure center of base post to snap post. > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JimDouglasJr/ondoor.jpg > > The snap end. A very dependable and sturdy snap. > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JimDouglasJr/thesnap.jpg > > Securely snapped to the top of the juke. Must be pulled straight off to release. Can't slide off. > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/JimDouglasJr/snapped.jpg > > > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > > _________________________________________________________________ > The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Mon Feb 16 12:30:15 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Mon Feb 16 12:31:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) Message-ID: Ron, thanks for the tip on the cleaner. I used a straight contact cleaner no residue and that took care of it. I guess it stripped off the deoxit and other gunk. Jay, I will try the stop pawl cleaning and lubing idea. Thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009 From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Mon Feb 16 12:30:20 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Mon Feb 16 12:31:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) Message-ID: Ron, thanks for the tip on the cleaner. I used a straight contact cleaner no residue and that took care of it. I guess it stripped off the deoxit and other gunk. Jay, I will try the stop pawl cleaning and lubing idea. Thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Mon Feb 16 13:03:05 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Mon Feb 16 13:04:14 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 selection problems Message-ID: Hi all, I checked the tabs under the carousel. They were VERY dirty. I cleaned them and they move smoothly now. I still have the selection issue. When I choose a side, it plays the b side. Other times it will play the next number just above or below the chosen selection. It is consistent though, if I press H5 it always plays H4 for example. Thank you Bryan Shaw _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009 From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 13:23:51 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 16 13:25:00 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <655424.6439.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bryan, You are welcome--BUT --NO lube on the BS Pawls !!!!? Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Bryan Shaw wrote: From: Bryan Shaw Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) To: "jukebox group" Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 12:30 PM Ron, thanks for the tip on the cleaner. I used a straight contact cleaner no residue and that took care of it. I guess it stripped off the deoxit and other gunk. Jay, I will try the stop pawl cleaning and lubing idea. Thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 13:37:28 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 16 13:38:37 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 selection problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <577117.75507.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bryan, The key here is to determine if the wrong pin is being "released", or the correct pin is being released, and you have "stopping" problems.? In order to pinpoint the problem, set the record load switch to load, and make several selections while watching to see which of the above is happening. Make at least 4 selections on all four "sides" of the electrical selector (front, back, left, right). Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Bryan Shaw wrote: From: Bryan Shaw Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 2610 selection problems To: "jukebox group" Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 1:03 PM Hi all, I checked the tabs under the carousel. They were VERY dirty. I cleaned them and they move smoothly now. I still have the selection issue. When I choose a side, it plays the b side. Other times it will play the next number just above or below the chosen selection. It is consistent though, if I press H5 it always plays H4 for example. Thank you Bryan Shaw _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From tadpole17 at roadrunner.com Mon Feb 16 13:51:00 2009 From: tadpole17 at roadrunner.com (paul) Date: Mon Feb 16 14:56:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler References: <577117.75507.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0E192FD8468D478CBE566270E528D516@LITALIEN> looking for the correct bulb # for the title page thanks Paul From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 15:22:19 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 16 15:23:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler In-Reply-To: <0E192FD8468D478CBE566270E528D516@LITALIEN> Message-ID: <370208.55030.qm@web111308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Which "Rowe Bubbler"--What type of bulb ? Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/16/09, paul wrote: From: paul Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 1:51 PM looking for the correct bulb # for the title page thanks Paul _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From rjpope at sbcglobal.net Mon Feb 16 17:02:20 2009 From: rjpope at sbcglobal.net (Rodney J Pope) Date: Mon Feb 16 17:03:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <901397.72069.qm@web82607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bryan, I am having the exact same problem with the exact same model. Let me know if you have any success. Thanks Rod Pope --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Bryan Shaw wrote: From: Bryan Shaw Subject: [Jukebox-list] (no subject) To: "jukebox group" Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 12:30 PM Ron, thanks for the tip on the cleaner. I used a straight contact cleaner no residue and that took care of it. I guess it stripped off the deoxit and other gunk. Jay, I will try the stop pawl cleaning and lubing idea. Thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From etreble7 at verizon.net Mon Feb 16 16:57:29 2009 From: etreble7 at verizon.net (etreble7) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:00:09 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes Message-ID: Good Evening! quick question, I have lost the sound on the Seeburg C100 and am going to re-seat the tubes as Step 1. How long do I have to wait after turning it on then off, to safely handle the tubes? I hate electricity! Thanks, Jackie From jeffzurn at cox.net Mon Feb 16 18:09:57 2009 From: jeffzurn at cox.net (Jeff Zurn) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:11:08 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes References: Message-ID: <000801c990a4$d51bb950$0601a8c0@ZURNT60> Jackie, Once the power is off you should be electrically safe reseating the tubes... but it may take a few minutes for them to cool to a handling temperature. Be Safe! Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "etreble7" To: Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes Good Evening! quick question, I have lost the sound on the Seeburg C100 and am going to re-seat the tubes as Step 1. How long do I have to wait after turning it on then off, to safely handle the tubes? I hate electricity! Thanks, Jackie _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From etreble7 at verizon.net Mon Feb 16 18:26:17 2009 From: etreble7 at verizon.net (etreble7) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:27:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes References: <000801c990a4$d51bb950$0601a8c0@ZURNT60> Message-ID: Thanks Jeff...I waited 30 minutes, I don't know why, I thought the tubes held electricity for an extended period of time, maybe I am thinking of cap.? Anyway, took them all out and put them back..........I HAVE SOUND !! yea. Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Zurn" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes > Jackie, > Once the power is off you should be electrically safe reseating the > tubes... but it may take a few minutes for them to cool to a handling > temperature. > > Be Safe! > > Jeff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "etreble7" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:57 PM > Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes > > > Good Evening! > quick question, I have lost the sound on the Seeburg C100 and am going to > re-seat the tubes as Step 1. How long do I have to wait after turning it > on then off, to safely handle the tubes? I hate electricity! Thanks, > Jackie > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dirksenj at bellsouth.net Mon Feb 16 18:48:59 2009 From: dirksenj at bellsouth.net (dirksenj@bellsouth.net) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:50:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 61 (again) References: Message-ID: <000d01c990aa$4c822f10$6101a8c0@Dirksen> It's been 15 years since I restored my 61 and I'm too lazy to look, but I seem to remember that one being a NC microswitch with only two screw-in type connections. There are several styles of that same microswitch being made today, some with solder lugs, screw lugs, and various lever or plunger styles. The BZ2R switch is what you want - it will bolt right in and the wiring connections are the same, only you will have an extra NO contact that you don't need. If you can't find this switch, Rockola used them for years on their rotating titledrums and mechs. A used one shouldn't be too hard to find. Good luck, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "rick murray" To: "jukebox list" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 61 (again) I'm having difficulty tracking down a replacement contactor switch for the Model 61 table top I'm restoring. It is part of the Magazine Switch Assembly. The original was a microswitch part # R-R10, (wurlitzer part # 25558) I spoke with the folks at Honeywell (formerly Microswitch) and their records do not go back that far. Cherry microswitch attempted to cross reference for me but no luck either. Does anyone know where I can obtain one of these? Thanks! Rick _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 16 18:57:03 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:58:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg LPC1 (Continued...) Message-ID: <20090216.215703.23745.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> Hi: If the Seeburg mech. has not been cleaned and lubricated for a long time, the grease on surfaces where there is metal-to metal contact will dry out, cake, and lose the lubricating quality. This is the most common problem. There are quite a few details discussed in this procedure. For the sake of brevity here, look at the manual, then lets' discuss any questions you might have. The lubrication process (for the clutch and everything else) is thoroughly shown in detail in the service manual. A grease that is specified in the book is "Lubriplate". I'm under the impression that Lubriplate is not available any longer? In it's place I've had good results using white Lithium grease. (available at auto parts stores) In some cases, installation of new grease onto the surfaces is sufficient. In others, the old coagulated grease will need to be removed with a de-greasing agent. Then the new lube can be applied. Use a GC Electronics Zoom Spout oiler (available at electronics parts houses) to oil all bearing surfaces that (in the book) call for "Seeburg all purpose oil". I believe the oil is 20 weight. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx8VZ7W320cb0NKTh5149D8xEfjuF5S0aaUHjpoEw8n9fpBb4/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 19:34:49 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 16 19:35:55 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <935644.8867.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jackie, Just till they are cool enough so you don't burn your hands--also, check the volume control and speaker plugs--Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/16/09, etreble7 wrote: From: etreble7 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes To: Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 4:57 PM Good Evening! quick question, I have lost the sound on the Seeburg C100 and am going to re-seat the tubes as Step 1. How long do I have to wait after turning it on then off, to safely handle the tubes? I hate electricity! Thanks, Jackie _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From david_breneman at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 19:36:12 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Mon Feb 16 19:37:17 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <228798.45947.qm@web42108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/16/09, etreble7 wrote: > Thanks Jeff...I waited 30 minutes, I don't know why, I > thought the tubes held electricity for an extended period of > time, maybe I am thinking of cap.? That's right. The "dangerous tube" issue usually relates to CRTs, which have a big wire, like a spark plug wire, attached to the side of the tube. This is an anode that uses a high voltage to help draw the electron beam to the target (the tube face). Tens of thousands of volts are applied there to perform that function, and the high voltage circuit that drives it has capacitors that can hold that potential for days if not weeks after power is disconnected. A former boss of mine once leaned over a prototype computer monitor, got too near to that circuit, and took a nasty shock that threw him back several feet and resulted in his having to have a "plug" of dead flesh removed from his chest where the arc went through. ("The doctor just pushed it through with a glass rod.") He was damned lucky in that it didn't get near his heart! > Anyway, took them all > out and put them back..........I HAVE SOUND !! yea. Would that it could always be that easy! From tadpole17 at roadrunner.com Tue Feb 17 06:01:11 2009 From: tadpole17 at roadrunner.com (paul) Date: Tue Feb 17 06:02:36 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler References: <370208.55030.qm@web111308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ron, it is an antique apparatus RB-8 45 rpm there above the key pad on the inside of the door there the illumination for the title page I think what they had in there were #47 or 555 cant remember witch? but what I am looking for is the correct bulb that suppose to be there... they only last about a week.... and I don't know if the customer changed to the wrong ones... thanks Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler > Which "Rowe Bubbler"--What type of bulb ? Ron Rich > > --- On Mon, 2/16/09, paul wrote: > > From: paul > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 1:51 PM > > looking for the correct bulb # for the title page > > > thanks Paul > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1956 - Release Date: 02/16/09 18:31:00 From notarysojac at sbcglobal.net Tue Feb 17 07:52:35 2009 From: notarysojac at sbcglobal.net (NotarySojac) Date: Tue Feb 17 07:53:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Bargain O' the Week Message-ID: <633125.17010.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bargain(s) of the week: Original URL:http://stlouis.craigslist.org/clt/1034402741.html ________________________________ AMI Juke Boxes, have 3, D80, 1953&4, and wurlitzer Wall Boxes Reply to: sale-1034402741@craigslist.org Date: 2009-02-14, 9:57AM First, guy that called from Jeff city, please call again, your number came up restricted so I cant return your call, thanks I have 3 jukeboxes, 2 are what im told are 1952 both complete, one suppose to play records but no needle, they have a space sceen on the marque at the top, neat old boxes, will need some work but you get both for only $400, the second jukebox is im told fish tank style, it does play records, I want $350 needs some minor work, and I have 3 Wurltizer wall boxes all different models, one shown below takes nickels dimes and quarters it is $160, Have on similar that takes only nickels for $125, have a third that takes nickels but missing the coin drop cover for $50, you can see a lot of better pic on photobucket and can enlarge the pic by clicking it, just click this link:http://s405.photobucket.com/albums/pp136/daphbomb/Aniques/Juke%20Boxes%20and%20Wall%20Boxes/ if interested call 314 341-9876 * Location: Hillsboro MO * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests Original URL:http://stlouis.craigslist.org/clt/1034402741.html ________________________________ From etreble7 at verizon.net Tue Feb 17 08:15:28 2009 From: etreble7 at verizon.net (etreble7) Date: Tue Feb 17 08:16:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes References: <228798.45947.qm@web42108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6F58969D90E54061A80753C818432EA0@home1903> David and Ron, thanks for the info....I am sooooo very careful (maybe too careful sometimes) of anything I do on the Jukebox and I agree with you, don't we all wish it could be that easy of a fix? I did notice one of the tubes I put back could be turned to the right on it's base a little, like tightening it up? The others were all firm on their base. Don't know if it was that or one of them had just come loose a bit. Mel was here a couple weeks ago and helped me with the B Side Plunger (thanks Mel!) and maybe when I put it together again, I loosened a tube. Thanks to everyone for their imput, as always I appreciate it so much, Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Breneman" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg C Tubes > --- On Mon, 2/16/09, etreble7 wrote: > >> Thanks Jeff...I waited 30 minutes, I don't know why, I >> thought the tubes held electricity for an extended period of >> time, maybe I am thinking of cap.? > > That's right. The "dangerous tube" issue usually > relates to CRTs, which have a big wire, like a > spark plug wire, attached to the side of the tube. > This is an anode that uses a high voltage to help > draw the electron beam to the target (the tube > face). Tens of thousands of volts are applied there > to perform that function, and the high voltage > circuit that drives it has capacitors that can > hold that potential for days if not weeks after > power is disconnected. > > A former boss of mine once leaned over a prototype > computer monitor, got too near to that circuit, and > took a nasty shock that threw him back several > feet and resulted in his having to have a "plug" of > dead flesh removed from his chest where the arc > went through. ("The doctor just pushed it through > with a glass rod.") He was damned lucky in that it > didn't get near his heart! > >> Anyway, took them all >> out and put them back..........I HAVE SOUND !! yea. > > Would that it could always be that easy! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 09:06:25 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 17 09:07:39 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <64648.36370.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Paul, The reason that they only last "a week" is that you are using the wrong voltage lamps. You should be using 28 volt, # 1819 lamps--Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/17/09, paul wrote: From: paul Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 6:01 AM Ron, it is an antique apparatus RB-8 45 rpm there above the key pad on the inside of the door there the illumination for the title page I think what they had in there were #47 or 555 cant remember witch? but what I am looking for is the correct bulb that suppose to be there... they only last about a week.... and I don't know if the customer changed to the wrong ones... thanks Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler > Which "Rowe Bubbler"--What type of bulb ? Ron Rich > > --- On Mon, 2/16/09, paul wrote: > > From: paul > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 1:51 PM > > looking for the correct bulb # for the title page > > > thanks Paul > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1956 - Release Date: 02/16/09 18:31:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From pat2355 at aol.com Tue Feb 17 08:53:40 2009 From: pat2355 at aol.com (pat2355@aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 17 09:54:08 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler In-Reply-To: References: <370208.55030.qm@web111308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB5F376B2E61D0-A50-50A@WEBMAIL-DC14.sysops.aol.com> My Antique Apparatus has 3 #1893 bulbs above the title strips. Is that waht you need to know ? Pat From tadpole17 at roadrunner.com Tue Feb 17 10:38:04 2009 From: tadpole17 at roadrunner.com (paul) Date: Tue Feb 17 10:39:23 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler References: <370208.55030.qm@web111308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8CB5F376B2E61D0-A50-50A@WEBMAIL-DC14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <10BF9233B57F48108F8CFEEE6FD1E050@LITALIEN> thanks very much Ron and Pat i will order some..... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler > > My Antique Apparatus has 3 #1893 bulbs above the title strips. Is that > waht you need to know ? Pat > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1956 - Release Date: 02/16/09 18:31:00 From deanmink2003 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 12:12:51 2009 From: deanmink2003 at yahoo.com (Dean Mi nk) Date: Tue Feb 17 12:14:08 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Question about needles? Message-ID: <786611.41735.qm@web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My M100B plays good and everything works but it has a Pickering "blackhead" cartridge and I notice that when playing certain 45's the tone or treble seems to go up and down and some records sounds "tinny" and some?sound muffled, all of them sound like there is way too much midrange. I'm trying to get a Seeburg "redhead" cartridge but meanwhile, what else would cause those symptoms? Also, would changing the cartridge make a significant difference in sound quality? Thanks From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 12:15:19 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 17 12:16:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler In-Reply-To: <8CB5F376B2E61D0-A50-50A@WEBMAIL-DC14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <690146.50063.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Interesting--never have seen those in use--perhaps a better choice--depends on heat generated. The 1891 draws slightly less power (.25 vs .33 A) but all other specs look the same, except for life. The 1891 has 500 hrs, while the 1893 says 2,500 hrs. One caution, do not sub the -93 for the -91 in Seeburg Microlog equipment, as it will destroy the lamp drivers. (Rock/Rowe?did not use drivers in the "Bubbler" models). --- On Tue, 2/17/09, pat2355@aol.com wrote: From: pat2355@aol.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 8:53 AM My Antique Apparatus has 3 #1893 bulbs above the title strips. Is that waht you need to know ? Pat _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 12:40:33 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 17 12:41:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Question about needles? In-Reply-To: <786611.41735.qm@web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <806860.17532.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It sounds as if you have the original size,?"non-stereo" needle in that cartridge. Try a new .7 mil needle, and I think it will be allright.? ( available at www.needles4jukeboxes.com ) Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Dean Mi nk wrote: From: Dean Mi nk Subject: [Jukebox-list] Question about needles? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 12:12 PM My M100B plays good and everything works but it has a Pickering "blackhead" cartridge and I notice that when playing certain 45's the tone or treble seems to go up and down and some records sounds "tinny" and some?sound muffled, all of them sound like there is way too much midrange. I'm trying to get a Seeburg "redhead" cartridge but meanwhile, what else would cause those symptoms? Also, would changing the cartridge make a significant difference in sound quality? Thanks _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From david_breneman at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 12:42:18 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Tue Feb 17 12:43:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Question about needles? In-Reply-To: <786611.41735.qm@web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43689.94878.qm@web42103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Dean Mi nk wrote: > My M100B plays good and everything works but it has a > Pickering "blackhead" cartridge > and I notice that when playing certain 45's the tone or > treble seems to go up and down and some records sounds > "tinny" and some?sound muffled, all of them sound > like there is way too much midrange. That cartridge will not do well with stereo records since it has almost no vertical compliance. These cartridges are also susceptible to a failure of the attachment point of the stylus cantilever to the pickup armature, which causes a lot of distortion as the magnet and coil inside the cartridge drift closer and farther apart. > Also, would changing the cartridge make a significant > difference in sound quality? That depends on a whole lot of things. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 13:30:52 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 17 13:32:01 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Warning -Seeburg "Red" needles Message-ID: <797759.84522.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, There is a pair of "Red, Seeburg background" needles for sale on eBay now. They were listed before as 1 used pair, and 1 "new" pair. I wrote to the seller informing him that the "new" needles were not intended for use in a Seeburg/Pickering? cartridge, as they, if one trys to insert, them will split the plastic housing on the cart. Well, he has re-listed them (370 160 927 712) as two used, and the other pair (new) is thrown in for free, with a note saying"--they would have to be filed slightly-on the body--to fit"--buyer beware !!!? Ron Rich? From pat2355 at aol.com Tue Feb 17 14:05:07 2009 From: pat2355 at aol.com (pat2355@aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:06:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] rowe bubbler In-Reply-To: <690146.50063.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB5F62EDCFACD8-37C-D41@WEBMAIL-MY14.sysops.aol.com> Hey Ron, I actually pulled the manual to find out which bulb #1893> DUMB !? There is no specific manual for those jukes because Antique Apparatus used their cabinets and rowe mechs and wallbox parts for the playing and selecting parts. I then pulled a bulb and used my ancient eyes. That's what's been working in my box forever BUT they have heat burned the diffuser. Almost 20 years of use I can't complain. Pat From gibson510 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 15:10:39 2009 From: gibson510 at hotmail.com (rick murray) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:11:47 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] wurlitzer 61 again Message-ID: It's been 15 years since I restored my 61 and I'm too lazy to look, but I seem to remember that one being a NC microswitch with only two screw-in type connections. There are several styles of that same microswitch being made today, some with solder lugs, screw lugs, and various lever or plunger styles. The BZ2R switch is what you want - it will bolt right in and the wiring connections are the same, only you will have an extra NO contact that you don't need. If you can't find this switch, Rockola used them for years on their rotating titledrums and mechs. A used one shouldn't be too hard to find. Good luck, Jim Jim, thank you so much for that bit of info. That's what I needed. Someone who has been there before. Would you mind if I contact you off the list to ask some additional questions about this machine? Best Regards, Rick Murray _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009 From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 18:01:50 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Tue Feb 17 18:02:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 2610 wurlitzer selection issue AGAIN Message-ID: My 2610 still have a selection problem On some keys, very few when I press a0 a9 plays, checking inside a9 selector pin is actuated. Same is the case with h5 is pressed either h6 or even h7 selector pins are actuated. Sometimes (rarely) if I press H5, h5 pin is actuated and h5 plays. Additionally, when the above occurs, like pressing a0 and a9 plays, if a0 when pressed does not play, then a9 consistently does. thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Wed Feb 18 10:15:18 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Wed Feb 18 10:16:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: W1400 on e-Bay In-Reply-To: <797759.84522.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <797759.84522.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you're interested, you might want to check out this machine. The price is currently low. Seller seems to know where to get parts (so why not replace the missing tube to get sound?) http://cgi.ebay.ca/Wurlitzer-Jukebox-Model-1400-LOW-LOW-PRICE_W0QQitemZ2 80314044473QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item280314044473&_trksid=p3 286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 -----Original Message----- _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From jugert at msn.com Wed Feb 18 10:22:15 2009 From: jugert at msn.com (jugert@msn.com) Date: Wed Feb 18 10:23:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: W1400 on e-Bay In-Reply-To: References: <797759.84522.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I tried the link but it did not work. http://cgi.ebay.ca/Wurlitzer-Jukebox-Model-1400-LOW-LOW-PRICE_W0QQitemZ280314044473QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item280314044473&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 this one should work Don Jugert Colorado > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:15:18 -0500 > From: michael.dicecco@rbc.com > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: W1400 on e-Bay > > If you're interested, you might want to check out this machine. The > price is currently low. Seller seems to know where to get parts (so why > not replace the missing tube to get sound?) > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/Wurlitzer-Jukebox-Model-1400-LOW-LOW-PRICE_W0QQitemZ2 > 80314044473QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item280314044473&_trksid=p3 > 286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 > > -----Original Message----- > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________________________________ > > This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. > Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. > If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. > > Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. > Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. > Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jeffzurn at cox.net Wed Feb 18 12:00:57 2009 From: jeffzurn at cox.net (Jeff Zurn) Date: Wed Feb 18 12:02:09 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2700 question References: <797759.84522.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001201c99203$9d2d5200$e0da4109@ZURNT60> Jukebox takes selection, carousel turns to selected slot but the record arm does not bring the record up to play. Holding in the 'cancel' button the mechanism will progress to load the record, at the end of the song, pressing cancel will again progress the mech. Red or White relays?? Something else? Thank you. Jeff From 19k20 at comcast.net Wed Feb 18 15:33:30 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Wed Feb 18 15:34:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2700 question In-Reply-To: <001201c99203$9d2d5200$e0da4109@ZURNT60> References: <797759.84522.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <001201c99203$9d2d5200$e0da4109@ZURNT60> Message-ID: <002601c99221$4f2c01f0$ed8405d0$@net> So Jeff, you are saying that the records wont load when you make a selection. The carousel rotates to desired selection, but is never lifted to play? Does the tone arm release as if to play the selection? But the selection will load when you press the cancel button? If it's not loading period, have you checked to make sure all the parts..ie tension springs are present to provide the resistance? These large springs attach to the large chassis mounting plate and to the link and lever assembly(what the loading arms are attached to on the front side of the mech). Is the carousel in the proper position where a loading arm can freely access and load the selection? Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Zurn Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:01 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2700 question Jukebox takes selection, carousel turns to selected slot but the record arm does not bring the record up to play. Holding in the 'cancel' button the mechanism will progress to load the record, at the end of the song, pressing cancel will again progress the mech. Red or White relays?? Something else? Thank you. Jeff _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1957 - Release Date: 02/18/09 08:57:00 From rockolakid at ntlworld.com Wed Feb 18 15:57:32 2009 From: rockolakid at ntlworld.com (rockolakid) Date: Wed Feb 18 16:09:55 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburgh Trashcan Message-ID: <1A05BA088D95492786B38968B9204C9B@bossyboots> Hi All, Can anybody advise on transporting a trashcan jukebox, if it cannot be carried upright what are the risks of transporting on it`s back any pit falls to lookout for. Thanks. Regards Doug. From Jjmscf at aol.com Wed Feb 18 16:53:48 2009 From: Jjmscf at aol.com (Jjmscf@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 18 17:06:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Ebay SS160 front glasses.Would the buyer happen to read this list? Message-ID: I'm just curious if the buyer might be a reader of this list? Ebay item 130288144343. It consisted of not 1 but 2 brand new Ken Arnold front glasses for the SS160. Ken Arnold is no longer making these. The buyer took the Buy It Now.Darn it I was watching them. I was hoping he only needed 1 and would sell the other. Any chance he's on here since we can no longer see the Ebay name and I might get in big trouble trying to contact him through Ebay? Sorry to beat this to death but I'd love to just get a useable SS 160 front glass.It don't have to be perfect but no one seems to be able to even come up with a decent used one. It would be nice if you could have an ongoing want list with the big parts sellers so if they get something they didn't have when you contacted them first you don't have to bug them every 6 months or so. J.C. **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 17:56:43 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 18 17:57:56 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2700 question In-Reply-To: <001201c99203$9d2d5200$e0da4109@ZURNT60> Message-ID: <623682.33865.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I would suspect the end of record trip switch--nc cntacts--Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Jeff Zurn wrote: From: Jeff Zurn Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2700 question To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 12:00 PM Jukebox takes selection, carousel turns to selected slot but the record arm does not bring the record up to play. Holding in the 'cancel' button the mechanism will progress to load the record, at the end of the song, pressing cancel will again progress the mech. Red or White relays?? Something else? Thank you. Jeff _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 18:13:52 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:14:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 2610 wurlitzer selection issue AGAIN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <30817.32636.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Look at the number coils---is it energizing the correct coil, or not? Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Bryan Shaw wrote: From: Bryan Shaw Subject: [Jukebox-list] 2610 wurlitzer selection issue AGAIN To: "jukebox group" Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 6:01 PM My 2610 still have a selection problem On some keys, very few when I press a0 a9 plays, checking inside a9 selector pin is actuated. Same is the case with h5 is pressed either h6 or even h7 selector pins are actuated. Sometimes (rarely) if I press H5, h5 pin is actuated and h5 plays. Additionally, when the above occurs, like pressing a0 and a9 plays, if a0 when pressed does not play, then a9 consistently does. thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Wed Feb 18 21:09:06 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 18 21:11:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2700 question Message-ID: <20090219.000906.12593.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Hi Ron: With symptoms like this, the first things I would check are for "opens" in the tripoff circuit wiring on the record changer and then the tripoff microswitch for the tone arm. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Find Career Training here. We take Education Seriously. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYRdEg9OKai8mQPyB5zTZJkn2HUb7NXLtBz7DmnVElF7vLUNLTqtwx/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Wed Feb 18 21:20:18 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 18 21:23:23 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 2610 wurlitzer selection issue AGAIN Message-ID: <20090219.002018.12593.2@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: There could be multiple problems that will cause a wrong number to play. First, make a selection number that plays incorrectly, and shut off the mech motor from running (this should be a slide switch on the pin bank chassis,mounted at the base of the record changer. Take time to LOOK at which selector pin was fired. There is a printing of all the letters-numbers on the top plate surrounding the pins. The lettering may be covered up in dirt or dust if this is a neglected machine. Try punching in other seelection numbers that you are having trouble with and see if the correct pins are being pulled. If they are, then you need to concentrate your troubleshooting efforts on the "readout" mechanics of the record changer, like you've been discussing in earlier emails. JIm Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Find home loans here. Complete financial solutions. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYSSHskUlpYlXXcV0ndsrPcYs8mGpgw8znSyeiGd0XeM3WVpBtXiuo/ From david_breneman at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 22:10:52 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Wed Feb 18 22:11:55 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburgh Trashcan In-Reply-To: <1A05BA088D95492786B38968B9204C9B@bossyboots> Message-ID: <30052.82283.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, rockolakid wrote: > Can anybody advise on transporting a trashcan > jukebox, if it cannot be carried upright what are the risks > of transporting on it`s back any pit falls to lookout for. I transported a 148 hideaway unit a few years ago. I removed the round record trays, (and the turntable, as I recall) and wired the tonearm down. Transported it on its back and everything was fine. I can't imagine that there are any trim parts (color cylinders, etc.,) on the "real" trashcans that would be damaged by carrying the machine on its back as long as everything is secured. From jay at west.net Wed Feb 18 22:34:53 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Wed Feb 18 22:35:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 2610 wurlitzer selection issue AGAIN In-Reply-To: <20090219.002018.12593.2@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090219.002018.12593.2@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <499CFD8D.3010205@west.net> James Alexander wrote: > > Gentlemen: > There could be multiple problems that will cause a wrong number to play. First, make a selection number that plays incorrectly, and shut off the mech motor from running (this should be a slide switch on the pin bank chassis,mounted at the base of the record changer. > Take time to LOOK at which selector pin was fired. There is a printing of all the letters-numbers on the top plate surrounding the pins. The lettering may be covered up in dirt or dust if this is a neglected machine. > Try punching in other selection numbers that you are having trouble with and see if the correct pins are being pulled. If they are, then you need to concentrate your troubleshooting efforts on the "readout" mechanics of the record changer, like you've been discussing in earlier emails. > JIm Alexander Jim, he reported that the incorrect pin is being popped on selection. This would imply a write-in problem. I know Wurlitzer used a number of schemes to pop the correct pin. If I recall correctly the 100, 104, and 200 select are each different. I've never had a 100-select to deal with so can't offer specific advice here. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From steve at pro-ns.net Wed Feb 18 23:08:47 2009 From: steve at pro-ns.net (Steve Wahl) Date: Wed Feb 18 23:09:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 2610 wurlitzer selection issue AGAIN In-Reply-To: <499CFD8D.3010205@west.net> References: <20090219.002018.12593.2@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> <499CFD8D.3010205@west.net> Message-ID: <20090219070847.GN3218@pro-ns.net> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:34:53PM -0800, Jay Hennigan wrote: > Jim, he reported that the incorrect pin is being popped on selection. > This would imply a write-in problem. I know Wurlitzer used a number of > schemes to pop the correct pin. If I recall correctly the 100, 104, and > 200 select are each different. I've never had a 100-select to deal with > so can't offer specific advice here. I've got a 100 select, a 2410 -- I don't know what may have changed by the 2610, but it may be close. I'm going from memory, and described this before, so you might get more accurate if you find my post about this in the archives. There are 3 solenoids involved before the final one that pops the pin; the 3 solenoids determine which pin within a set of 5 gets popped. The groups are A1-A5, A6-A0, B1-B5, B6-B0, and so on; there's one main solenoid for each group. I can't remember the manual's terms for them, but good names for the 3 extra solenoids would be the early stop solenoid, the clockwise (CW) solenoid, and the counterclockwise (CCW) solenoid. There's also a plate that rotates on the center axis, with a bunch of fingers coming up; the main selection solenoid (for each group of 5) pushes one of these fingers, and the finger pushes the actual pin to make it pop up. Rotate the plate, and the finger pops a different pin. The "neutral case" is the middle pin: A3, A8, B3, B8, etc. If one of these is selected, there is no action by these other 3 solenoids. The clockwise solenoid rotates the plate clockwise, moving the pin that gets popped towards the higher numbers. The counter clockwise solenoid rotates the plate the other way, moving towards lower numbers. If the early stop solenoid is pulled in before the other two, they stop only one digit away from center; else they move two digits. So: * CCW solenoid without early stop means you select a 1 or 6. * CCW solenoid with early stop means you select a 2 or 7. * No extra solenoids means you select a 3 or an 8. * CW solenoid with early stop means you select a 4 or a 9. * CW solenoid without early stop means you select a 5 or a 0. Wrong selection problems can be electrical (one of these solenoids not firing, or at the wrong time) or mechanical (plate movement meets some form of resistance). Such problems would usually be consistent through all the letters: all attempts to select 0's would tend to select 9's, regardless of which letter pushed, for instance. Original problem description was: > My 2610 still have a selection problem On some keys, very few when I > press a0 a9 plays, checking inside a9 selector pin is actuated. > Same is the case with h5 is pressed either h6 or even h7 selector > pins are actuated. Sometimes (rarely) if I press H5, h5 pin is > actuated and h5 plays. Additionally, when the above occurs, like > pressing a0 and a9 plays, if a0 when pressed does not play, then a9 > consistently does. An A0 becoming an A9 would mean the plate didn't turn far enough, so that sort of matches, but... Hmm, you SURE about that h5 becomes h6 or h7? H5 doesn't share a "main" solenoid with H6 and H7 on my machine, so maybe a 2410 *is* a lot different than a 2610. However, a quick image search on Google (thanks, pinballrebel / Ken!) and a peek inside, it doesn't look that different. Gee, to make H5 select H6, I'd almost be looking for shorts in the keyboard wiring. But really, something doesn't sound right about that. --> Steve -- Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net One day, the light bulb in the fridge burnt out, and I thought to myself, "At least now I know it's off when the door's closed... Or do I?" From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 08:30:31 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Thu Feb 19 08:31:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2700 question In-Reply-To: <20090219.000906.12593.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <646010.76277.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jim, Ugh, ain't that what I said ?? Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/18/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] W2700 question To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 9:09 PM Hi Ron: With symptoms like this, the first things I would check are for "opens" in the tripoff circuit wiring on the record changer and then the tripoff microswitch for the tone arm. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Find Career Training here. We take Education Seriously. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYRdEg9OKai8mQPyB5zTZJkn2HUb7NXLtBz7DmnVElF7vLUNLTqtwx/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukeboxjunkyard at cox.net Thu Feb 19 08:52:28 2009 From: jukeboxjunkyard at cox.net (The Jukebox Junkyard) Date: Thu Feb 19 08:53:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] curious about weird jukebox References: <707729.65084.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39CCE54DFF524EEE8CF3A7E5EFC1201C@PAW> Hi Ya Gang: just saw an unusual "JUKEBOX" if you can call it that on epay. do we have any Japanese members on the list that may be able to shed some history on this strange coin op? take a look.. Roy http://cgi.ebay.com/Daigo-8-Track-Tape-Countertop-Jukebox-See-It-Play_W0QQitemZ250372795112QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item250372795112&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 From russelwoodring at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 05:51:17 2009 From: russelwoodring at hotmail.com (Russ Woodring) Date: Thu Feb 19 10:16:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg M100B Electrical Selector Problem Message-ID: I moved the pins on the pinbank it just keeps on playing scanning records which way are the pins suppose to be to turn off all the way out or all the way in thank you From tadpole_04276 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 15 13:39:14 2009 From: tadpole_04276 at hotmail.com (paul) Date: Thu Feb 19 10:16:48 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Bubbler Message-ID: hi looking for the correct bulb # for the bulbs for the title page the only manual I can find is for an R94 does anyone know what the bulbs are?? thanks Paul From pinball at telus.net Thu Feb 19 10:31:28 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Thu Feb 19 10:32:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] curious about weird jukebox In-Reply-To: <39CCE54DFF524EEE8CF3A7E5EFC1201C@PAW> References: <707729.65084.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <39CCE54DFF524EEE8CF3A7E5EFC1201C@PAW> Message-ID: <499DA580.305@telus.net> The Jukebox Junkyard wrote: > > Hi Ya Gang: just saw an unusual "JUKEBOX" if you can call it that on > epay. > > do we have any Japanese members on the list that may be able to shed > some history on this strange coin op? > > take a look.. > > Roy > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Daigo-8-Track-Tape-Countertop-Jukebox-See-It-Play_W0QQitemZ250372795112QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item250372795112&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > That is truly unusual! An 8-track jukebox - who would have guessed? Wurlitzer (Germany) made a coin operated cassette player, and an free play 8-track multiplayer (8 to ten tapes I think - for background music) back in the 70s. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 11:44:24 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Thu Feb 19 11:45:35 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Bubbler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <814048.71371.qm@web111303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Guys, Was this posted twice? Any way, I just looked at my lamp chart again, as when I was reminded, I became confused (my normal state !). There are three lamps that MAY be used. One the 1819, is the same one Seeburg uses in the credit section of the LS-3, and USC models. It is a 28 volt bulb, and can not be sub'ed without damage, in a Seeburg. The next one that can be used is a 1891, which is a 14volt lamp with only a 500 hr life rating. The last is a 1893, which has a 2500 hr life rating. Use of a 14 volt lamp would require the? sockets to be series wired--which MAY/may not,?be the case on some of the early Rock/Rowe "bubblers". Hope this clears this up--?Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/15/09, paul wrote: From: paul Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Bubbler To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 1:39 PM hi looking for the correct bulb # for the bulbs for the title page the only manual I can find is for an R94 does anyone know what the bulbs are?? thanks Paul _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 11:47:17 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Thu Feb 19 11:48:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg M100B Electrical Selector Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <402040.17154.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> All the way in on the Seeburg Solenoid Assembly ( Not a Wurlitzer !!). Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Russ Woodring wrote: From: Russ Woodring Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg M100B Electrical Selector Problem To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 5:51 AM I moved the pins on the pinbank it just keeps on playing scanning records which way are the pins suppose to be to turn off all the way out or all the way in thank you _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Thu Feb 19 12:03:35 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Thu Feb 19 12:04:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Bubbler In-Reply-To: <814048.71371.qm@web111303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <814048.71371.qm@web111303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <499DBB17.5050106@west.net> Ron Rich wrote: > Guys, > Was this posted twice? Any way, I just looked at my lamp chart again, as when I was reminded, I became confused (my normal state !). There are three lamps that MAY be used. One the 1819, is the same one Seeburg uses in the credit section of the LS-3, and USC models. It is a 28 volt bulb, and can not be sub'ed without damage, in a Seeburg. The next one that can be used is a 1891, which is a 14volt lamp with only a 500 hr life rating. The last is a 1893, which has a 2500 hr life rating. Use of a 14 volt lamp would require the sockets to be series wired--which MAY/may not, be the case on some of the early Rock/Rowe "bubblers". Hope this clears this up-- Ron Rich My apologies. This was originally sent from a non-member address and I just approved it and pushed it through the admin queue. So yes it was posted twice. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From edbap at aol.com Thu Feb 19 16:09:39 2009 From: edbap at aol.com (Ed Baptista) Date: Thu Feb 19 16:17:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] curious about weird jukebox In-Reply-To: <499DA580.305@telus.net> References: <707729.65084.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com><39CCE54DFF524EEE8CF3A7E5EFC1201C@PAW> <499DA580.305@telus.net> Message-ID: <8CB6106A7F3D694-5F0-1A84@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> $600?? take the money and run.? I have doubts that is a "real bid".? of course, my 2 pesos worth.... Eddie Baptista -----Original Message----- From: John Robertson To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:31 am Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] curious about weird jukebox The Jukebox Junkyard wrote:? >? > Hi Ya Gang: just saw an unusual "JUKEBOX" if you can call it that on > epay.? >? > do we have any Japanese members on the list that may be able to shed > some history on this strange coin op?? >? > take a look..? >? > Roy? >? > http://cgi.ebay.com/Daigo-8-Track-Tape-Countertop-Jukebox-See-It-Play_W0QQitemZ250372795112QQcmdZViewItemQQptZJukeboxes?hash=item250372795112&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 >? >? > _______________________________________________? > Jukebox-list mailing list? > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com? > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list? >? That is truly unusual! An 8-track jukebox - who would have guessed? Wurlitzer (Germany) made a coin operated cassette player, and an free play 8-track multiplayer (8 to ten tapes I think - for background music) back in the 70s.? ? John :-#)#? ? -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)? ? www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"? ? _______________________________________________? Jukebox-list mailing list? Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com? http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list? From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 17:19:57 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Thu Feb 19 17:21:04 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Bubbler In-Reply-To: <499DBB17.5050106@west.net> Message-ID: <338526.78865.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jay, No problem, especially since I think that I answered it wrong, the first time? Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: From: Jay Hennigan Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Rowe Bubbler To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 12:03 PM Ron Rich wrote: > Guys, Was this posted twice? Any way, I just looked at my lamp chart again, as when I was reminded, I became confused (my normal state !). There are three lamps that MAY be used. One the 1819, is the same one Seeburg uses in the credit section of the LS-3, and USC models. It is a 28 volt bulb, and can not be sub'ed without damage, in a Seeburg. The next one that can be used is a 1891, which is a 14volt lamp with only a 500 hr life rating. The last is a 1893, which has a 2500 hr life rating. Use of a 14 volt lamp would require the sockets to be series wired--which MAY/may not, be the case on some of the early Rock/Rowe "bubblers". Hope this clears this up-- Ron Rich My apologies. This was originally sent from a non-member address and I just approved it and pushed it through the admin queue. So yes it was posted twice. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvachon at teksavvy.com Thu Feb 19 23:26:05 2009 From: dvachon at teksavvy.com (dvachon) Date: Thu Feb 19 23:27:08 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg 1000 Message-ID: Hi, I have a Seeburg Background 1000 music system. Would anyone happen to have a power cord they could sell me? Also, I have a question about the top and bottom plate that the records go in between. The cushion on the plates is dry and flaking off. Do I need to replace this with the exact same material? After cleaning off the old stuff, can I just put one of the cushion rings like the ones on a rock-ola turntable? The bottom plate has it only around the edge, whereas the top plate has the entire bottom covered. Is this important or can I just put a ring on it as well? Thank you, Doug From flashbk13 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 03:41:42 2009 From: flashbk13 at hotmail.com (Rick Force) Date: Fri Feb 20 03:42:56 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Message-ID: Hi all, what is the impedance of the 12 inch speakers of this juke? I want to put them in a 222, but they need to be 16ohms. Thank you, Rick. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 20 08:44:25 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 20 08:45:36 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <120845.52509.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rick, Got a meter?? Measure them. Should be 5 ohms, however, they did use other values during various runs (with? hidden resistors in series).? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force wrote: From: Rick Force Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: "juke list" Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 3:41 AM Hi all, what is the impedance of the 12 inch speakers of this juke? I want to put them in a 222, but they need to be 16ohms. Thank you, Rick. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From steve at pro-ns.net Fri Feb 20 09:08:18 2009 From: steve at pro-ns.net (Steve Wahl) Date: Fri Feb 20 09:09:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking Message-ID: <20090220170818.GB26024@pro-ns.net> I have a light that's going out in my 2410. It's the lower one, by the selection buttons. It flashes on & off. What order should I try replacing things? I suppose the normal order is Bulb, Starter, Balast. But the starter would be much easier to replace w/o touching anything else. Is there a reasonable expectation that it could be just the starter? Or do bad bulbs cause starters to die, so I'd just be killing a new starter if I replaced it without replacing the bulb? And on the subject of the bulb, I know that there's a wide variety of light colors put out by fluorescent bulbs. What is the "correct" / original color bulb to put in a 2410? (I once bought a cheap fluorescent fixture, bulb included, for our bedroom closet. Although the light itself looked white, the color of our clothes when lit by it was so horrible I ended up paying nearly 2x the original price of the fixture for a bulb that had decent color!) --> Steve -- Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net "On this employee survey form, it asks, 'Do you trust your manager?' If I trust him to do the wrong thing, is that a 'yes'?" From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 20 09:15:25 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 20 09:16:38 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking In-Reply-To: <20090220170818.GB26024@pro-ns.net> Message-ID: <739333.73673.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Steve, Color was probably "warm"--replace both the lamp and starter (starters are cheap, and if bad, can destroy the ballast--which ain't always?so cheap !) Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Steve Wahl wrote: From: Steve Wahl Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 9:08 AM I have a light that's going out in my 2410. It's the lower one, by the selection buttons. It flashes on & off. What order should I try replacing things? I suppose the normal order is Bulb, Starter, Balast. But the starter would be much easier to replace w/o touching anything else. Is there a reasonable expectation that it could be just the starter? Or do bad bulbs cause starters to die, so I'd just be killing a new starter if I replaced it without replacing the bulb? And on the subject of the bulb, I know that there's a wide variety of light colors put out by fluorescent bulbs. What is the "correct" / original color bulb to put in a 2410? (I once bought a cheap fluorescent fixture, bulb included, for our bedroom closet. Although the light itself looked white, the color of our clothes when lit by it was so horrible I ended up paying nearly 2x the original price of the fixture for a bulb that had decent color!) --> Steve -- Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net "On this employee survey form, it asks, 'Do you trust your manager?' If I trust him to do the wrong thing, is that a 'yes'?" _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 09:16:46 2009 From: jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com (Thomas Teeter) Date: Fri Feb 20 09:17:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking In-Reply-To: <20090220170818.GB26024@pro-ns.net> References: <20090220170818.GB26024@pro-ns.net> Message-ID: Best to replace both the lamp and the starter at the same time and be done with it... Thomas On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Steve Wahl wrote: > I have a light that's going out in my 2410. It's the lower one, by > the selection buttons. It flashes on & off. > > What order should I try replacing things? I suppose the normal order > is Bulb, Starter, Balast. > > But the starter would be much easier to replace w/o touching anything > else. Is there a reasonable expectation that it could be just the > starter? Or do bad bulbs cause starters to die, so I'd just be > killing a new starter if I replaced it without replacing the bulb? > > And on the subject of the bulb, I know that there's a wide variety of > light colors put out by fluorescent bulbs. What is the "correct" / > original color bulb to put in a 2410? > > (I once bought a cheap fluorescent fixture, bulb included, for our > bedroom closet. Although the light itself looked white, the color of > our clothes when lit by it was so horrible I ended up paying nearly 2x > the original price of the fixture for a bulb that had decent color!) > > --> Steve > > -- > Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net > > "On this employee survey form, it asks, 'Do you trust your manager?' > If I trust him to do the wrong thing, is that a 'yes'?" > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > -- Thomas Teeter absolutelygreatgames.com E-bay ID: absolutelygreatgames E-mail: jukeboxrepairman@gmail.com From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 09:42:06 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Fri Feb 20 09:43:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] w 2610 selector issue solved Message-ID: Hi all, I figured out the the w 2610 selector problem. The wrong pin was activated when a button was pushed, for example h5 pressed, h6 would play. There is an adjustment procedure in the manual for the electric selector assy. More specifally the rock arm assy adjustment. Follow the instructions as they are pretty clear, one note though, the instructions tell you to hold the rocker assy to the extreme right, then left etc. to see that the rocker arms line up with the appropriate stop pins. This action moved the solenoides right and left. What is not taken into account is that you move the action to the stop points to confirm adjustment that your soloides during normal activation will not push or pull the assy to the same stop points. This happens quite fast so you cannot see it happen. The recommended solution is to adjust the solenoide bracket far right for right solenoide and far left with the left. This will see that the rocker is going to the stop point. This adjustment can be made without removing the electric selector.l It is advisable though as the front side pins get pretty filthy and that is a good time to clean them. The removal is not difficult. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009 From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 20 12:19:44 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 12:22:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking Message-ID: <20090220.151944.5294.0@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> Hello Steve: RE: W 2400 flourescent lamps In general, what you wrote is correct, however a defective lamp, starter or ballast can cause a lamp to flicker. At one end of the fl. tube is there a dark smoky buildup inside the glass? This is sure sign that the lamp is near the end of it's useful life. Change the starters, too, to be safe. It's easy to do and they are cheap. If after changing the lamp, and starter, you still have blinking, replace the ballast. Leting the blinking condition continue will soon "kill" the new bulb and starter. Another thing--failing flourescent bulbs can present shorts or overloads to starters and ballasts causing them to burn out. The original lamp colors planned for your juke were the cool white bulbs. These days you have the choice of other higher output "daylight white" bright flourescents. Use caution in selecting these---they put out more heat as well as light. I've encountered a few issues where ultra hot burning bulbs will "bake" the colors out of the colored filter that lights the spkr grill. There are other color choices (colored glass) available with some fl. lamp types. Pick the color/shade that you like. An alternative to buying colored bulbs is to wrap your cool white flourescents in colored lighting gels. Many color choices are available this way. Lighting gels are available from retailers selling stage lighting or stagecraft supplies. I believe the lamp type used in the W2400 is a 28" long 25W model F25T12CW-28, which isn't a commonly available number anymore (you won't find it at home improvement stores like Home Depot or Lowe's). You'll need to go to a "Lamps R Us" type store , an electrical parts house, an "old-school" style hardware store that has old stock, or order from one of the jukebox supply houses like Victory Glass. The juke supply places will usually have the alternate lamp colors, too. Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Earn your psychology degree online. Earn your BS, MA, MBA, Ph.D now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYbtOZgUFa1ICLZJpQId1PTd0s7TLkYeh6bz4GcDbhDeH6uIZCuqAV/ From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Fri Feb 20 12:36:36 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Fri Feb 20 12:37:47 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking In-Reply-To: <20090220.151944.5294.0@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090220.151944.5294.0@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Great reply Jim (as usual). Since we are discussing fluorescent lights, I wanted to ask the following question to the group: I have a Seeburg R and G, and both still have their original ballasts (and the lights work fine...touch wood!). I recall hearing somewhere that the ballasts can fail simply due to age, and overheat causing a fire. So, is it a good idea to replace a perfectly good working old ballast for this reason, or just wait for it to eventually fail? I look forward to everyone's input. Thanks Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of James Alexander Sent: 2009, February, 20 3:20 PM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking Hello Steve: RE: W 2400 flourescent lamps In general, what you wrote is correct, however a defective lamp, starter or ballast can cause a lamp to flicker. At one end of the fl. tube is there a dark smoky buildup inside the glass? This is sure sign that the lamp is near the end of it's useful life. Change the starters, too, to be safe. It's easy to do and they are cheap. If after changing the lamp, and starter, you still have blinking, replace the ballast. Leting the blinking condition continue will soon "kill" the new bulb and starter. Another thing--failing flourescent bulbs can present shorts or overloads to starters and ballasts causing them to burn out. The original lamp colors planned for your juke were the cool white bulbs. These days you have the choice of other higher output "daylight white" bright flourescents. Use caution in selecting these---they put out more heat as well as light. I've encountered a few issues where ultra hot burning bulbs will "bake" the colors out of the colored filter that lights the spkr grill. There are other color choices (colored glass) available with some fl. lamp types. Pick the color/shade that you like. An alternative to buying colored bulbs is to wrap your cool white flourescents in colored lighting gels. Many color choices are available this way. Lighting gels are available from retailers selling stage lighting or stagecraft supplies. I believe the lamp type used in the W2400 is a 28" long 25W model F25T12CW-28, which isn't a commonly available number anymore (you won't find it at home improvement stores like Home Depot or Lowe's). You'll need to go to a "Lamps R Us" type store , an electrical parts house, an "old-school" style hardware store that has old stock, or order from one of the jukebox supply houses like Victory Glass. The juke supply places will usually have the alternate lamp colors, too. Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Earn your psychology degree online. Earn your BS, MA, MBA, Ph.D now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYbtOZgUFa1ICLZJpQId 1PTd0s7TLkYeh6bz4GcDbhDeH6uIZCuqAV/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 20 12:46:26 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 12:49:11 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Message-ID: <20090220.154626.5294.1@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> Rick: To help answer your question, I went to the service manuals (a group of 3 books) for the 70's Seeburg models SPS-160,going forward. They do not list the impedance of the 12" drivers either in the parts list or on the schematic. All the 70's era jukes used a high-resonance 12" LFdriver, and an HF compression driver horn, coupled through a high pass network. The 12" woofers are high efficiency, high-resonance type cones with 40 oz. magnets. These would be a good acoustic match for your older Seeburg 220. The 70's woofer has a DC voice coil resistance of 5 ohms (thanks to Ron Rich) which means the AC impedance of the speaker is probably 12 to 16 ohms. (this is an assumption on my part) Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ You will believe your eyes! Click here for great whale watching packages! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXA9DzNE1A29FTKCGTQdYax1VuYqMyEdjYXJLdf0qVUYUCODRY40Y/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 20 13:03:22 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:04:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking Message-ID: <20090220.160322.5294.2@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> I advise my customers that are having jukes refurbished on the advantages of installing fresh ballasts. (everything that you said) However, quite a few do not, usually for cost reasons. Things to consider when running old ballasts: Your juke does not have the ballasts mounted to the sidewalls or floor of the wood cabinet. Alternatively, the ballasts would be mounted on a chassis or on a steel plate,which is fastened to the cabinet. The steel acts as a heat sink. Dried-out old plywood, in contact with a hot-running ballast is more likely to burn. You've updated your early 60's or older juke to a properly wired 3 wire grounded power cord setup. If a ballast shorts out, there's a strong likelihood that you'll blow a fuse first. With an original 2 wire power cord scheme, the ballast could fry first. Do you leave your juke's power turned on for extensive periods of time? ( I know of many who like to see the lit juke in a darkened room) If yes, play it safe and replace the ballasts with modern units. The average single-tube fl ballast costs $20-25, worst case. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Find k-12 education here. We take education seriously. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYRlnLfVdTylN3MJScW5uKiGCezhPQ1ihzLps45eR4PPE7bef0rrJx/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 20 13:24:43 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:25:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] w 2610 selector issue solved In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <873794.99314.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bryan, Thanks for posting this. One thing to remember when dealing with "solenoids", is that when you actuate them by hand, you should "pull" (push?)?on the plunger prior to any connecting link. Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Bryan Shaw wrote: From: Bryan Shaw Subject: [Jukebox-list] w 2610 selector issue solved To: "jukebox group" Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 9:42 AM Hi all, I figured out the the w 2610 selector problem. The wrong pin was activated when a button was pushed, for example h5 pressed, h6 would play. There is an adjustment procedure in the manual for the electric selector assy. More specifally the rock arm assy adjustment. Follow the instructions as they are pretty clear, one note though, the instructions tell you to hold the rocker assy to the extreme right, then left etc. to see that the rocker arms line up with the appropriate stop pins. This action moved the solenoides right and left.. What is not taken into account is that you move the action to the stop points to confirm adjustment that your soloides during normal activation will not push or pull the assy to the same stop points. This happens quite fast so you cannot see it happen. The recommended solution is to adjust the solenoide bracket far right for right solenoide and far left with the left. This will see that the rocker is going to the stop point. This adjustment can be made without removing the electric selector.l It is advisable though as the front side pins get pretty filthy and that is a good time to clean them. The removal is not difficult. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 20 13:55:31 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:56:42 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking In-Reply-To: <20090220.151944.5294.0@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <899183.92607.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> 2 cents more--In this model machine, this won't mater too much, but in "later" equipment, you only should use starters that have the word "condenser" on them, oh and BTW, be sure to use the correct size starter.? Ron Rich. --- On Fri, 2/20/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 12:19 PM Hello Steve: RE: W 2400 flourescent lamps In general, what you wrote is correct, however a defective lamp, starter or ballast can cause a lamp to flicker. At one end of the fl. tube is there a dark smoky buildup inside the glass? This is sure sign that the lamp is near the end of it's useful life. Change the starters, too, to be safe. It's easy to do and they are cheap. If after changing the lamp, and starter, you still have blinking, replace the ballast. Leting the blinking condition continue will soon "kill" the new bulb and starter. Another thing--failing flourescent bulbs can present shorts or overloads to starters and ballasts causing them to burn out. The original lamp colors planned for your juke were the cool white bulbs. These days you have the choice of other higher output "daylight white" bright flourescents. Use caution in selecting these---they put out more heat as well as light. I've encountered a few issues where ultra hot burning bulbs will "bake" the colors out of the colored filter that lights the spkr grill. There are other color choices (colored glass) available with some fl. lamp types. Pick the color/shade that you like. An alternative to buying colored bulbs is to wrap your cool white flourescents in colored lighting gels. Many color choices are available this way. Lighting gels are available from retailers selling stage lighting or stagecraft supplies. I believe the lamp type used in the W2400 is a 28" long 25W model F25T12CW-28, which isn't a commonly available number anymore (you won't find it at home improvement stores like Home Depot or Lowe's). You'll need to go to a "Lamps R Us" type store , an electrical parts house, an "old-school" style hardware store that has old stock, or order from one of the jukebox supply houses like Victory Glass. The juke supply places will usually have the alternate lamp colors, too. Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Earn your psychology degree online. Earn your BS, MA, MBA, Ph.D now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYbtOZgUFa1ICLZJpQId1PTd0s7TLkYeh6bz4GcDbhDeH6uIZCuqAV/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 20 14:00:48 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:01:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <500091.53197.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Mike, Depends-a brand new ballast can fail also--If you have a crystal ball, you may be able to tell which will fail first. The MAIN thing to worry about, is HOW? the ballast is mounted, and onto what it's mounted. Follow mfg.'s instructions, and make sure any mounting that is on wood, and is more then ten years old is checked--under NO circumstances should the ballast be "touching" wood. Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Dicecco, Michael wrote: From: Dicecco, Michael Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 12:36 PM Great reply Jim (as usual). Since we are discussing fluorescent lights, I wanted to ask the following question to the group: I have a Seeburg R and G, and both still have their original ballasts (and the lights work fine...touch wood!). I recall hearing somewhere that the ballasts can fail simply due to age, and overheat causing a fire. So, is it a good idea to replace a perfectly good working old ballast for this reason, or just wait for it to eventually fail? I look forward to everyone's input. Thanks Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of James Alexander Sent: 2009, February, 20 3:20 PM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking Hello Steve: RE: W 2400 flourescent lamps In general, what you wrote is correct, however a defective lamp, starter or ballast can cause a lamp to flicker. At one end of the fl. tube is there a dark smoky buildup inside the glass? This is sure sign that the lamp is near the end of it's useful life. Change the starters, too, to be safe. It's easy to do and they are cheap. If after changing the lamp, and starter, you still have blinking, replace the ballast. Leting the blinking condition continue will soon "kill" the new bulb and starter. Another thing--failing flourescent bulbs can present shorts or overloads to starters and ballasts causing them to burn out. The original lamp colors planned for your juke were the cool white bulbs. These days you have the choice of other higher output "daylight white" bright flourescents. Use caution in selecting these---they put out more heat as well as light. I've encountered a few issues where ultra hot burning bulbs will "bake" the colors out of the colored filter that lights the spkr grill. There are other color choices (colored glass) available with some fl. lamp types. Pick the color/shade that you like. An alternative to buying colored bulbs is to wrap your cool white flourescents in colored lighting gels. Many color choices are available this way. Lighting gels are available from retailers selling stage lighting or stagecraft supplies. I believe the lamp type used in the W2400 is a 28" long 25W model F25T12CW-28, which isn't a commonly available number anymore (you won't find it at home improvement stores like Home Depot or Lowe's). You'll need to go to a "Lamps R Us" type store , an electrical parts house, an "old-school" style hardware store that has old stock, or order from one of the jukebox supply houses like Victory Glass. The juke supply places will usually have the alternate lamp colors, too. Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Earn your psychology degree online. Earn your BS, MA, MBA, Ph.D now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYbtOZgUFa1ICLZJpQId 1PTd0s7TLkYeh6bz4GcDbhDeH6uIZCuqAV/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 14:39:25 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:40:33 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] amp rebuild source Message-ID: I have an ami f120 that I have just finished an overhaul. The amp was working but was a real scarey movie. I sent it to group member Jay Hannigan. He rebuilt the amp (at a low price I'll add). He emailed with suggestions as to tube replacement and sources to buy them. The finshed amp arrived today. Jay even sends back the bad parts!! I installed the amp it works flawlessly. I could not be happier. One more mention, the communication was great!! I knew what was going on the entire time. I have a 2610 amp and a seeburg lu1 amp that I am going to send to Jay next. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 14:41:38 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:42:46 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] name spelling Message-ID: Sorry Jay, I misspelled your last name in my post. The right way is Jay Hennigan Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 16:06:20 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Fri Feb 20 16:07:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Seeburg LPC1 Message-ID: Sorry, I'm still reading posts from a week ago, so if this has been covered... In the meantime, put the treble control to MAX and the Scratch Compensator to MIN. All the compensator is is a high frequency filter. Try the Bass at MIN or MED. This will get as much high as possible out of an LPC-1. My LPC amp needs a rebuild and I'd be curious about the upgrade. I also installed a small pair of cheap automotive add-on tweeters in mine. makes a big difference. Yes, LPC's do sound a little lax on the high end, but it's definitely the speakers. Those amps and cartridges are producing the high end, it's just that those oval speakers aren't great at reproducing them. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From seancalla at eircom.net Fri Feb 20 16:12:53 2009 From: seancalla at eircom.net (Sean Callaghan) Date: Fri Feb 20 16:20:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] FW: rockola 488 credit unit problem Message-ID: <20090221002042.BB233AAE83@lists.netlojix.com> _____ From: Sean Callaghan [mailto:seancalla@eircom.net] Sent: 03 February 2009 15:24 To: 'jukebox-list-request@lists.netlojix.com' Subject: rockola 488 credit unit problem Hello I have a Rockola 488 with a Profit Setter (credit unit) pc board part number 53355-A, last night I switched the machine on and when you try to put up credits using coins or doing it manually, the credit starts to appear on the record playing selection display, and will eventually clock up to nine. When you select the record number it won?t display, but the record will select and play, then when you press the clear button on the pcb everything returns to normal, the credit displays in the proper display and when you select a record it displays in the proper display. This happens everytime the machine is turned on Any help is appreciated Regards Sean Callaghan -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 268.2.3 - Release Date: 14/03/2006 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 268.2.3 - Release Date: 14/03/2006 From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 20 16:25:40 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 20 16:26:48 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] FW: rockola 488 credit unit problem In-Reply-To: <20090221002042.BB233AAE83@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: <396980.21175.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> WAG--Battery, if it uses one ??? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Sean Callaghan wrote: From: Sean Callaghan Subject: [Jukebox-list] FW: rockola 488 credit unit problem To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 4:12 PM _____ From: Sean Callaghan [mailto:seancalla@eircom.net] Sent: 03 February 2009 15:24 To: 'jukebox-list-request@lists.netlojix.com' Subject: rockola 488 credit unit problem Hello I have a Rockola 488 with a Profit Setter (credit unit) pc board part number 53355-A, last night I switched the machine on and when you try to put up credits using coins or doing it manually, the credit starts to appear on the record playing selection display, and will eventually clock up to nine. When you select the record number it won?t display, but the record will select and play, then when you press the clear button on the pcb everything returns to normal, the credit displays in the proper display and when you select a record it displays in the proper display. This happens everytime the machine is turned on Any help is appreciated Regards Sean Callaghan -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 268.2.3 - Release Date: 14/03/2006 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 268.2.3 - Release Date: 14/03/2006 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 16:58:04 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Fri Feb 20 16:59:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: AMI G leather strap PHOTOS Message-ID: Jim. I used some cloth ribbon. It ended up stretching a bit, so if you go that route, construct it with the grommets about a quarter inch short from where it stores on the lid. Install it, and let it hold the lid open over night. That should stretch it just enough to make it store snugly. I was going to make some up but have no idea where the grommet kit I bought is right now. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 17:24:25 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:25:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: 2610 wurlitzer selection issue AGAIN Message-ID: In other words, it's sometimes selecting the wrong pin, correct? IF THIS IS THE CASE, your mechanism is simply playing the record that it thinks has been selected. You must determine why it's selecting the wrong pin. As far as the mechanism is concerned, it's playing the PIN that is selected, so the mechanism is OK in that regard. There could be many issues, but one could jut be a sticky electric selector that's needed a lube job or a good cleaning for too long. Not that this is the fix, but it could be: Make sure the giant gear called the Rotating Plate and Rocker assembly turns freely. it is below the selection pins and has little 1.5 inch rocker plates standing up all the way around it. It is self aligning, so don't worry about screwing up it's location. Turn it by hand several times. If this is gummy, it can goof up the selection process. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco ------------------------------------------ My 2610 still have a selection problem On some keys, very few when I press a0 a9 plays, checking inside a9 selector pin is actuated. Same is the case with h5 is pressed either h6 or even h7 selector pins are actuated. Sometimes (rarely) if I press H5, h5 pin is actuated and h5 plays. Additionally, when the above occurs, like pressing a0 and a9 plays, if a0 when pressed does not play, then a9 consistently does. thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 17:52:52 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:53:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Wurlitzer 2410 fluorescent light blinking Message-ID: If it's flashing, the starter is still trying to start it, so the starter is good. In the meantime, take the old lamp out. Don't let the starter sit there and try starting it 30 times a minute. That'll kill it and stress out the ballast in short order. I just replaced a 30 inch lamp in my Wurlitzer 3200. For 50 cents more, I bought a "kitchen and bathroom" lamp, not a "cool white." The lamp I bought also has almost triple the listed life expectancy... and the slightly warmer light tone is fantastic. With other size lamps, there may not be much of a color choice. You can always get some lightly toned color gel to wrap the bulb in. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_022009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 18:02:51 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Fri Feb 20 18:03:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: w 2610 selector issue solved Message-ID: My particular Wurlitzer... Stored in a carport and God knows where else for 20+ years without a back door. Hosed the whole thing out, selector and all. Dried with a fan for 2 days (and usually wait 5 more - weekend to weekend), lubed what needed lube and it came right back to life. I know many people are freaked out when I douse electrical machinery with water, but nothing like starting with clean stuff and no better way to get it reasonably clean without taking it out and taking it apart. 20+ jukeboxes later, never had an issue from one of my hose downs. Just be sure everything's thoroughly dry. Nothing worse than trying to fiddle with a grungy jukebox. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009 From JHayes2613 at aol.com Fri Feb 20 18:06:47 2009 From: JHayes2613 at aol.com (John Hayes) Date: Fri Feb 20 18:14:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: w 2610 selector issue solved In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1B7AA8CD-161E-474F-AFB5-5268B606CA2D@aol.com> I say: WELCOME BACK, KYLE! On Feb 20, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Mechanical Music of S.F. wrote: > > > My particular Wurlitzer... Stored in a carport and God knows where > else for 20+ years without a back door. > Hosed the whole thing out, selector and all. Dried with a fan for 2 > days (and usually wait 5 more - weekend to weekend), lubed what > needed lube and it came right back to life. > > I know many people are freaked out when I douse electrical machinery > with water, but nothing like starting with clean stuff and no better > way to get it reasonably clean without taking it out and taking it > apart. 20+ jukeboxes later, never had an issue from one of my hose > downs. > Just be sure everything's thoroughly dry. > > Nothing worse than trying to fiddle with a grungy jukebox. > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009_______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From flashbk13 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 19:20:49 2009 From: flashbk13 at hotmail.com (Rick Force) Date: Fri Feb 20 19:21:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms In-Reply-To: <120845.52509.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <120845.52509.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ron, I have the meter but not the spkrs. I'm considering buying these off ebay, but wanted to know if they would work in my 222. thanks, rick. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Rich To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Rick, Got a meter?? Measure them. Should be 5 ohms, however, they did use other values during various runs (with hidden resistors in series). Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force > wrote: From: Rick Force > Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: "juke list" > Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 3:41 AM Hi all, what is the impedance of the 12 inch speakers of this juke? I want to put them in a 222, but they need to be 16ohms. Thank you, Rick. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From flashbk13 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 19:21:15 2009 From: flashbk13 at hotmail.com (Rick Force) Date: Fri Feb 20 19:22:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms In-Reply-To: <20090220.154626.5294.1@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090220.154626.5294.1@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: thanks james, rick ----- Original Message ----- From: James Alexander To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Rick: To help answer your question, I went to the service manuals (a group of 3 books) for the 70's Seeburg models SPS-160,going forward. They do not list the impedance of the 12" drivers either in the parts list or on the schematic. All the 70's era jukes used a high-resonance 12" LFdriver, and an HF compression driver horn, coupled through a high pass network. The 12" woofers are high efficiency, high-resonance type cones with 40 oz. magnets. These would be a good acoustic match for your older Seeburg 220. The 70's woofer has a DC voice coil resistance of 5 ohms (thanks to Ron Rich) which means the AC impedance of the speaker is probably 12 to 16 ohms. (this is an assumption on my part) Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ You will believe your eyes! Click here for great whale watching packages! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXA9DzNE1A29FTKCGTQdYax1VuYqMyEdjYXJLdf0qVUYUCODRY40Y/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 20 20:12:04 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 20 20:13:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <386044.28764.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rick, What happened to the originals in the 222?? I would prefer the originals, re-coned if needed, or?the "re-pro Jensens", as they would match the cabinet better--IMHO.??Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force wrote: From: Rick Force Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 7:20 PM Hi Ron, I have the meter but not the spkrs. I'm considering buying these off ebay, but wanted to know if they would work in my 222. thanks, rick. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Rich To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Rick, Got a meter?? Measure them. Should be 5 ohms, however, they did use other values during various runs (with hidden resistors in series). Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force > wrote: From: Rick Force > Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: "juke list" > Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 3:41 AM Hi all, what is the impedance of the 12 inch speakers of this juke? I want to put them in a 222, but they need to be 16ohms. Thank you, Rick. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From rlyons1 at carolina.rr.com Fri Feb 20 19:28:09 2009 From: rlyons1 at carolina.rr.com (Ron Lyons) Date: Fri Feb 20 20:46:09 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RI-5 Freeplay? Message-ID: <80E6F482CD7D48EFA8F184AE648C1C8B@RonniePC> I know everybody has to get annoyed with all the freeplay questions, but I've got a RI-5, and I have to open it up to put credits on it each time I want to play it. Is there a freeplay mode on that one? I know most of them weren't designed with a freeplay mode. Thanks, Ron From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 20 20:51:06 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 20:53:56 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Message-ID: <20090220.235106.6021.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Hi Rick: Good luck with your 222 repair job. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Lose up to 20 lbs in one month with a new diet. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYSwrEtLsSar5mJoVpYjLoKIS4TvQdL4RKceKomAThkSECYuq7Im4o/ From flashbk13 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 20:56:37 2009 From: flashbk13 at hotmail.com (Rick Force) Date: Fri Feb 20 20:57:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms In-Reply-To: <386044.28764.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <386044.28764.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ron, they are still there and working, but don't have much fidelity. I have never heard a 222 that sounded good, even one I had the spkrs reconed (it did sound the best of the bunch, but still not as good as a mono juke). I would like to get nice full range out of one of these 222's withoutthe need for the satellite spkrs. Rick. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Rich To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Rick, What happened to the originals in the 222? I would prefer the originals, re-coned if needed, or the "re-pro Jensens", as they would match the cabinet better--IMHO. Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force > wrote: From: Rick Force > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 7:20 PM Hi Ron, I have the meter but not the spkrs. I'm considering buying these off ebay, but wanted to know if they would work in my 222. thanks, rick. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Rich> To: Jukebox mailing list> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Rick, Got a meter?? Measure them. Should be 5 ohms, however, they did use other values during various runs (with hidden resistors in series). Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force >> wrote: From: Rick Force >> Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: "juke list" >> Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 3:41 AM Hi all, what is the impedance of the 12 inch speakers of this juke? I want to put them in a 222, but they need to be 16ohms. Thank you, Rick. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list> _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list> _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 20 21:02:42 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 21:05:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Seeburg LPC1 Message-ID: <20090221.000242.6021.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: The mid-hi freq speakers on an LPC-1 (inside the blue PVC backcans, mounted on the front door grilles) are 8" round-frame speakers. The Seeburg original equipment spkr (blue frame) looks like it's an Oxford or Utah speaker with a 6.8 oz. Alnico magnet. A good quality 8" coaxial public address speaker (i.e. Quam, Atlas-Soundolier, etc) will cost about $25 ea, worst case and will make a big difference. I have been out of circulation much of last week---I'll attempt to find the treble ckt cap changes we talked about here. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Free shipping on orders over $30. Save with genuine OEM & replacement. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYUEwy3E6Vcdj8eZPdRdyhqmOUQKL9k8aGAVVwE4XpyTztmAc39tcv/ From jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 21:09:15 2009 From: jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com (Thomas Teeter) Date: Fri Feb 20 21:16:33 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RI-5 Freeplay? In-Reply-To: <80E6F482CD7D48EFA8F184AE648C1C8B@RonniePC> References: <80E6F482CD7D48EFA8F184AE648C1C8B@RonniePC> Message-ID: If I recall correctly, the RI-5 used the old larger CCU. There is a switch that you need to move to the "test" position. That will put it on free play. Thomas On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Ron Lyons wrote: > I know everybody has to get annoyed with all the freeplay questions, but > I've got a RI-5, and I have to open it up to put credits on it each time I > want to play it. Is there a freeplay mode on that one? I know most of them > weren't designed with a freeplay mode. > > Thanks, > > Ron > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > -- Thomas Teeter absolutelygreatgames.com E-bay ID: absolutelygreatgames E-mail: jukeboxrepairman@gmail.com From recordhound at verizon.net Fri Feb 20 20:22:00 2009 From: recordhound at verizon.net (Jimmy Day) Date: Fri Feb 20 21:24:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance Message-ID: Found a set of these, I musta bought years ago, so we put them on the Rock Ola. These are the Little LPs, three songs per side. These are really pretty darn good, and that's coming from a die-hard Motown and Heavy Metal lover. Most of these are in the "go-go" style that was so popular in the 1960's. A very danceable beat. Even the Broadway Tunes and Big Band Classics are done in this style. The arrangement of the Beatles' "I Feel Fine" is quite well done, and I sent Alex off to the Thrift Store for a pair of go-go boots. Wondering if anyone else has these records, or more info, maybe a list. All I know is they were to be returned to Seeburg to keep within the distributer's agreement. These are not the "Artist Of The Week" records. Google search didn't turn up very much. Maybe others here know more about these records. Jukin Jimmy Day From jalexandercc at netzero.net Fri Feb 20 21:48:45 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 21:51:14 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance Message-ID: <20090221.004845.14907.1@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> Hi Jimmy: Seeburg began to market the rec-o-dance 7" records in the mid-60's to coincide with the first disco craze around that time. I believe these records came out in companion with the '65 jukebox model PFAE1U. This was done along with a marketing campaign in order to promote jukebox-based disco music. I believe the records were leased to jukebox operators--they couldn't be purchased outright. Supposedly, the Rec-o-dance records were equipped with some plastic "spikes" through the labels so that they couldn't be played on a competitor's jukebox--only Seeburg. I'm surprised they'll play for you on a Rock Ola. I think this program was rather short-lived and lasted only 2 years. Perhaps some of the other Seeburg fans on this site can offer a more accurate description. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Hit it out of the park with a new bat. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYan8sFhywFrkRAkwEvV1xswViEhDVqJeHDP8RAv59w9shpdRhQgRy/ From ginovandecauter at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 03:38:04 2009 From: ginovandecauter at gmail.com (Vande Cauter Gino) Date: Sat Feb 21 03:39:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 1050 Mech cover !!! Message-ID: <002e01c99418$dc67dcd0$6401a8c0@GLENN> Hi all , is there somebody who has for sale a (Wurlitzer 1050) mech cover ??? If you don't and you know somebody who has , please let me know . In the link below you can see (in the red circle) 2 pics from the cover !!! http://s698.photobucket.com/albums/vv341/Wurlifan/ Thank you already . Best regards , Gino . From ron at cyberjunky.nl Sat Feb 21 08:36:47 2009 From: ron at cyberjunky.nl (Ron) Date: Sat Feb 21 08:37:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Restoring 545 amp question Message-ID: <49A02D9F.8050402@cyberjunky.nl> Hi, do you need to re-adjust the bias of an 545 amp if you replace all tubes except the 4 high power ones? Any other tips and tricks for restore-ing this amp model? Thanks in advance! Regards, Ron. From david_breneman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 09:24:03 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Sat Feb 21 09:25:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg M100-A Credit Unit Message-ID: <715442.84122.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The cycling of the cancel solenoid in the credit unit of my M100-A is now slow to the extent that the credit switch doesn't complete its 1/6 rotation before the timing relay opens, causing the cancel circuit to cycle ("thunk... thunk... thunk... thunk...") several times before the switch disk slowly rotates far enough to cancel the credit. The action of the cancel solenoid itself, and rotation of its cam, is slow and gummy feeling when operated by hand. I assume the action of this solenoid and cam should be fairly brisk. However, I can find no indication in the manual as to whether this shaft should be lubricated. (The credit switch disk itself rotates relatively easily.) Should I be lubricating this thing? Thanks! David Breneman david_breneman@yahoo.com From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 09:27:36 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 21 09:28:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance In-Reply-To: <20090221.004845.14907.1@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <64680.21271.qm@web111315.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jim, and Jimmy, and all, Those records came out with the model LPC480 D. Jim, I think that you have confused the "plastic spikes" somewhat. Plastic cams were issued with that model phono, which were used (not on the record) to control the mechanism so that if the "Disco Mode switch" was on, ONLY, the "Rec-o-Dance" (or any other record),?placed within the group, of 10 records?(controled by the placement of that plastic cam), would?be played. Selections made outside of the selected "Disco group(s)" would be prevented?from playing, till the "Disco switch" was turned to off. If I remember right, those records had two or three "cover" songs per side, but had no "dead space" between cuts-- I think that Tony Millers "Seeburg Consul-Era Book" covers this issue--Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 9:48 PM Hi Jimmy: Seeburg began to market the rec-o-dance 7" records in the mid-60's to coincide with the first disco craze around that time. I believe these records came out in companion with the '65 jukebox model PFAE1U. This was done along with a marketing campaign in order to promote jukebox-based disco music. I believe the records were leased to jukebox operators--they couldn't be purchased outright. Supposedly, the Rec-o-dance records were equipped with some plastic "spikes" through the labels so that they couldn't be played on a competitor's jukebox--only Seeburg. I'm surprised they'll play for you on a Rock Ola. I think this program was rather short-lived and lasted only 2 years. Perhaps some of the other Seeburg fans on this site can offer a more accurate description. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Hit it out of the park with a new bat. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYan8sFhywFrkRAkwEvV1xswViEhDVqJeHDP8RAv59w9shpdRhQgRy/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From digital.john at btopenworld.com Sat Feb 21 09:47:16 2009 From: digital.john at btopenworld.com (digital.john@btopenworld.com) Date: Sat Feb 21 09:48:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rock-Ola 434 Message-ID: <231079.96784.qm@web86606.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now don't know which wire is which, ?the three wires are black, white and red,?when tested with a meter from wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is earth.?Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off switch, it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. Thanks. John From pinball at telus.net Sat Feb 21 09:55:07 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Sat Feb 21 09:56:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg M100-A Credit Unit In-Reply-To: <715442.84122.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <715442.84122.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A03FFB.7090907@telus.net> David Breneman wrote: > The cycling of the cancel solenoid in the credit unit > of my M100-A is now slow to the extent that the credit > switch doesn't complete its 1/6 rotation before the > timing relay opens, causing the cancel circuit to cycle > ("thunk... thunk... thunk... thunk...") several times > before the switch disk slowly rotates far enough to > cancel the credit. The action of the cancel solenoid > itself, and rotation of its cam, is slow and gummy > feeling when operated by hand. I assume the action of > this solenoid and cam should be fairly brisk. However, I > can find no indication in the manual as to whether > this shaft should be lubricated. (The credit > switch disk itself rotates relatively easily.) > Should I be lubricating this thing? Thanks! > > > David Breneman david_breneman@yahoo.com > Probably should be lubricated if it seems gummy. Although we would take it apart and clean out the gummed oil with Varsol (called Mineral Spirits on the East side of the Pond I believe...) Normally metal shafts through metal bushings are always oiled, while metal in nylon/plastic is NEVER oiled. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 10:15:53 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 21 10:17:07 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rock-Ola 434 In-Reply-To: <231079.96784.qm@web86606.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <611975.57718.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> John, This is all just a guess, as I have never seen that configuration in a main power cord--what country are you in? Anyway, I don't believe that the 434 is new enough to be designed to use a "earthed" (or as we here in the US say "grounded") cord. IMHO a machine designed before the three wire cord was factory installed should not have one added. I also don't know what voltage/hz?your phono was designed to use, but I would advise that, prior to connecting it to any source, it must be determined. Usually, but not always, US juke makers switched only the "hot" side of "117 vac" lines. If both the black and white wires do infact, go to the main power switch, it was usually?a "230" vac setup. I think that you need to find someone local, who is familar with your country's electrical set-up, and determine how it should be wired. Ron Rich ? ? ? --- On Sat, 2/21/09, digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: From: digital.john@btopenworld.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rock-Ola 434 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 9:47 AM Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now don't know which wire is which, ?the three wires are black, white and red,?when tested with a meter from wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is earth.?Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off switch, it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. Thanks. John _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 10:33:18 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 21 10:34:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <320415.32940.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rick, I don't believe the later speakers will help, as they are "base", to maybe "mid-range"?speakers. The originals were "full range"--Most of the audio problems in these phono's are due to the poor?stylii quality today, as long as the amp?has been rebuilt?correctly.? Ron Rich?? --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force wrote: From: Rick Force Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 8:56 PM Hi Ron, they are still there and working, but don't have much fidelity. I have never heard a 222 that sounded good, even one I had the spkrs reconed (it did sound the best of the bunch, but still not as good as a mono juke). I would like to get nice full range out of one of these 222's withoutthe need for the satellite spkrs. Rick. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Rich To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Rick, What happened to the originals in the 222? I would prefer the originals, re-coned if needed, or the "re-pro Jensens", as they would match the cabinet better--IMHO. Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force > wrote: From: Rick Force > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 7:20 PM Hi Ron, I have the meter but not the spkrs. I'm considering buying these off ebay, but wanted to know if they would work in my 222. thanks, rick. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Rich> To: Jukebox mailing list> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms Rick, Got a meter?? Measure them. Should be 5 ohms, however, they did use other values during various runs (with hidden resistors in series). Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rick Force >> wrote: From: Rick Force >> Subject: [Jukebox-list] seeburg usc1 speaker ohms To: "juke list" >> Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 3:41 AM Hi all, what is the impedance of the 12 inch speakers of this juke? I want to put them in a 222, but they need to be 16ohms. Thank you, Rick. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list> _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list> _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 21 11:59:29 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 21 12:01:56 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance Message-ID: <20090221.145929.19406.1@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Hi Ron: With old age they say the memory is the first thing to go..... You're probably right about the Rec-O-Dance records---Seeburg devised some type of mechanical safeguard so these records couldn't be spun on a non-Seeburg juke. All the music for these were originally recorded instrumental versions of the top hits of the day, emphasizing a dance beat. I remember that juke operators couldn't buy the records--there was some special financial arrangement where records were circulated either to Seeburg or a marketer that implemented the special disco program. I thought this marketing program was tied to the later PFAE1U juke as this machine had some unique disco graphics in the artwork. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Meet your flooring needs. The home and garden directory. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYW1MgYXXdieCLgd57JecceLfUlD0lCbLs3EU0AD1RfregatJWRTst/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 21 12:22:10 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 21 12:25:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Restoring 545 amp question Message-ID: <20090221.152210.19406.2@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Ron: I'm answering your question without consulting a 60's era Wurl schematic. The bias on the 6973 output tubes operates at a fixed level, without having an adjustment "pot" of any kind. If the bias level in your amp is "off" this indicates you have a defective amp component or a shorted 6973. The 543-544-545 amps are all similar in design. The bias drive levels (cathode bias) on the 6973 power output tubes is rather critical as low bias voltage will cause the tubes to draw too much plate current. This makes them run hot and will send the tubes to an early death. Since there is only one Russian manufacturer building 6973's today, the prices for new tubes are quite high. (on average $25-30ea.) To answer the second part of your question, replacing earlier-stage tubes in your 545 amp shouldn't affect the bias voltage on the 6973 cathodes. I believe it should be about 20 volts. Other amp manufacturers in the 60's (possibly RockOla) employed an amp design where DC voltage to light the filaments in preamp tubes was supplied by the 6973 bias circuit. In this case, changing out or removing the other tubes could affect the 6973 bias. Pls write back if you need a more definitive answer. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Discount Online Trading - Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYSXA9t67CR6XuGzAlPaOG7ct6WpJSDNE75KZuHUpes1IMV9BU78IY/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 15:53:10 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 21 15:54:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance In-Reply-To: <20090221.145929.19406.1@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <980158.71056.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Jim, That's not true--I'm old and my memory is as great as ever--just not too long !-- Anyway, I don't know about the sale of the records, as that program was over before "my time"--but I have played them, and other then being longer then the "standard" 45, they were just an ordinary record, playable on any turntable. BTW part of the "Disco--" program was the availability of a portable, expandable dance floor, along with the light-up sign you see for sale on eBay every so often. Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/21/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 11:59 AM ? Hi Ron: With old age they say the memory is the first thing to go.....?? You're probably right about the Rec-O-Dance records---Seeburg?devised some type of mechanical safeguard?so these records couldn't be spun on a?non-Seeburg juke.??? All the music for these were originally recorded instrumental versions?of the top hits of the day, emphasizing a dance beat.??? I remember that juke operators couldn't buy the records--there was some special financial arrangement where records were circulated either to Seeburg or a marketer that implemented the special disco program.?? I thought this marketing program was tied to the later PFAE1U juke as this machine had some unique disco graphics in the artwork. Jim Alexander? ____________________________________________________________ Meet your flooring needs. The home and garden directory. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 15:56:17 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sat Feb 21 15:57:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] OT Question Message-ID: <469884.86000.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Sorry, this is slightly OT-- Does anyone have a good source for radio dial cord ? TIA, Ron Rich From jugert at msn.com Sat Feb 21 16:22:08 2009 From: jugert at msn.com (jugert@msn.com) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:23:15 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] OT Question In-Reply-To: <469884.86000.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <469884.86000.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ron, Try Mark Palmquist, he is in the NW and is a really good radio guy, the best I have ever met. He just made a new plastic dial cover for my 48 packard bell. His email is jmpalm@mindspring.com Don Colorado ; > Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:56:17 -0800 > From: ronnnrich@yahoo.com > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Subject: [Jukebox-list] OT Question > > Hi All, > Sorry, this is slightly OT-- > Does anyone have a good source for radio dial cord ? > TIA, Ron Rich > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dvb at bowater.org.uk Sat Feb 21 17:03:42 2009 From: dvb at bowater.org.uk (david) Date: Sat Feb 21 17:04:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] OT Question In-Reply-To: <469884.86000.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CC99DEAC0604502A607E6F5B3E51CDD@Lyn> Hi Ron Have you tried braided fishing line? It has worked for me in the past, virtually no stretch and seems to have sufficient friction to work well. Also very cheap especially if you have a fishing friend! David David Bowater www.bwds-online.com www.bowater.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: 21 February 2009 23:56 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] OT Question Hi All, Sorry, this is slightly OT-- Does anyone have a good source for radio dial cord ? TIA, Ron Rich _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From flashbk13 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 21 18:16:28 2009 From: flashbk13 at hotmail.com (Rick Force) Date: Sat Feb 21 18:17:37 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] OT, holly crane manual Message-ID: Hi all, sorry this is off topic, please direct me to the right place if no-one here has this. I need a manual for the holly crane (low boy styl cabinet). Thank you, Rick. From gnharvey at iprimus.com.au Sat Feb 21 19:14:07 2009 From: gnharvey at iprimus.com.au (Graeme Harvey) Date: Sat Feb 21 19:15:01 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg R Message-ID: <7240D3694A5F42B5B0E7CBB1D44BF2F4@Graeme> My Seeburg R, with a Westinghouse motor has a leaking oil seal under the motor. I have stopped using it until I fix it.. Are they straight forward to replace. Are these seals (or bearings) available and form who. Would you know the order number please. Thanks Graeme Harvey From jay at west.net Sat Feb 21 21:11:02 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Sat Feb 21 21:12:07 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rock-Ola 434 In-Reply-To: <231079.96784.qm@web86606.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <231079.96784.qm@web86606.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A0DE66.50102@west.net> digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: > Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now don't know which wire is which, > the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from wire to chassis there is > continuity from the red which should mean red is earth. Looking at the wires the black and white seem > to go down to the on off switch, it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white is neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to the brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against the schematic. Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of colorblindness is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sat Feb 21 22:43:07 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 21 22:45:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance Message-ID: <20090222.014307.29676.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Ron: I just recall that Seeburg had a marketing push to create an "disco-in-a-box" package that was wrapped around one of their mid 60's jukes. There was the dance floor, a big speaker package, and other items that allowed a Seeburg jukebox operator help a bar owner make a quick conversion to dance club environment. The company I worked for never got into that schtick. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Great bargains. Homes from $10,000. Search new listings in your area. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYd6edwlWNyJSDtaEiOdICgTsjbpE9DvrhV4fWlIzCE5y0PR4LgtKx/ From pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk Sun Feb 22 03:05:31 2009 From: pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk (Nigel Pugh) Date: Sun Feb 22 03:06:51 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rock-Ola 434 In-Reply-To: <231079.96784.qm@web86606.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <231079.96784.qm@web86606.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002b01c994dd$7a10e2a0$6e32a7e0$@force9.co.uk> Hi John, I am in the UK and when I used to refurbish Rock-Olas I remember some (namely around the GP160, Starlet era) that had Red White and Black. This puzzled me initially, so I traced the wires through and the red was earth, which surprised me no end. If you remove the power supply, you will see the red wire will terminate on the back of one of the the main transformer bolts, I think. Check this just to be 100% certain. I remember this dilemma as I went out to someones house who had 'acquired' a GP160 and could not get it working. Turns out the plug connections were wrong and it was immediately blowing a fuse. Rock-Olas from the 60s onwards are generally made for the UK/ Europpean market so don't have a stepdown transformer. This peculiar cable combination must just have been the way they did things. Regards Nigel -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of digital.john@btopenworld.com Sent: 21 February 2009 17:47 To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rock-Ola 434 Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now don't know which wire is which, ?the three wires are black, white and red,?when tested with a meter from wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is earth.?Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off switch, it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. Thanks. John _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From rlyons1 at carolina.rr.com Sun Feb 22 04:01:19 2009 From: rlyons1 at carolina.rr.com (Ron Lyons) Date: Sun Feb 22 04:02:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RI-5 Freeplay? In-Reply-To: References: <80E6F482CD7D48EFA8F184AE648C1C8B@RonniePC> Message-ID: <736DD4C803054001A582EDB3AA3B80FC@RonniePC> That worked well, thank you Thomas! Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Teeter" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] RI-5 Freeplay? > If I recall correctly, the RI-5 used the old larger CCU. There is a switch > that you need to move to the "test" position. That will put it on free > play. > > Thomas > > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Ron Lyons > wrote: > >> I know everybody has to get annoyed with all the freeplay questions, but >> I've got a RI-5, and I have to open it up to put credits on it each time >> I >> want to play it. Is there a freeplay mode on that one? I know most of >> them >> weren't designed with a freeplay mode. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ron >> _______________________________________________ >> Jukebox-list mailing list >> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >> > > > > -- > Thomas Teeter > absolutelygreatgames.com > E-bay ID: absolutelygreatgames > E-mail: jukeboxrepairman@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1958 - Release Date: 02/18/09 08:57:00 From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 22 08:38:16 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 22 08:39:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list]color blind? was- Rock-Ola 434 In-Reply-To: <49A0DE66.50102@west.net> Message-ID: <799349.21498.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/21/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: From: Jay Hennigan Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Rock-Ola 434 To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 9:11 PM digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: > Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now don't know which wire is which, > the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is earth. Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off switch, it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white is neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to the brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against the schematic. Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of colorblindness is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 22 08:44:25 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 22 08:45:39 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance In-Reply-To: <20090222.014307.29676.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <941230.3102.qm@web111316.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> "Disco package"--starting with the LPC 480-D, runnng thru at least the APFEA-1 model. Contained the "dance floor, sign and the large external speakers". Ron Rich --- On Sat, 2/21/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 10:43 PM Ron: I just recall that Seeburg had a marketing push to create an "disco-in-a-box" package that was wrapped around one of their mid 60's jukes. There was the dance floor, a big speaker package, and other items that allowed a Seeburg jukebox operator help a bar owner make a quick conversion to dance club environment. The company I worked for never got into that schtick. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Great bargains. Homes from $10,000. Search new listings in your area. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYd6edwlWNyJSDtaEiOdICgTsjbpE9DvrhV4fWlIzCE5y0PR4LgtKx/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Sun Feb 22 10:17:44 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Sun Feb 22 10:18:56 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors In-Reply-To: <799349.21498.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <799349.21498.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A196C8.70600@west.net> Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off switch, > it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white is > neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to the > brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against the > schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of colorblindness > is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 22 11:46:42 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 22 11:47:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors In-Reply-To: <49A196C8.70600@west.net> Message-ID: <220992.72343.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jay, I agree with your suspicion?as to what happened-- Wurlitzer did use red wire for "ground" in some cases, usually in "Minus"?DC circuits, if I recall right. Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: From: Jay Hennigan Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 10:17 AM Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off switch, > it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white is > neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to the > brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against the > schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of colorblindness > is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk Sun Feb 22 12:09:30 2009 From: jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk (Juke of Shrewsbury) Date: Sun Feb 22 12:10:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors References: <799349.21498.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <49A196C8.70600@west.net> Message-ID: <30E9AD5BCD4245769F192A9AC776BE3C@JUKEBUS> ..And just to complete the picture, the "old" British colours were: Red = Live Black = Neutral Green = Earth Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hennigan" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of > what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I > had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is > earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off > switch, > it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white > is > neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to > the > brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against > the > schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of > colorblindness > is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00 From nmacrae23 at btinternet.com Sun Feb 22 12:20:05 2009 From: nmacrae23 at btinternet.com (NORMAN MACRAE) Date: Sun Feb 22 12:21:17 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors References: <799349.21498.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <49A196C8.70600@west.net> Message-ID: <250069.91689.qm@web86707.mail.ird.yahoo.com> In the early 60s, didn't Germany use red as earth; Oliver, help me here please - what do you say about this? Norman. ________________________________ From: Jay Hennigan To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Sunday, 22 February, 2009 6:17:44 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off switch, > it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white is > neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to the > brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against the > schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of colorblindness > is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 22 12:25:16 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 22 12:26:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors In-Reply-To: <30E9AD5BCD4245769F192A9AC776BE3C@JUKEBUS> Message-ID: <939364.90730.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Adrian, How "old" is "old" ?? And BTW, which country has "house wiring" lamp switches mounted "up-sidedown" ? USA "on" is up, UK, "on" is down ???? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Juke of Shrewsbury wrote: From: Juke of Shrewsbury Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 12:09 PM ...And just to complete the picture, the "old" British colours were: Red = Live Black = Neutral Green = Earth Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hennigan" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of > what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I > had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is > earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off > switch, > it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white > is > neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to > the > brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against > the > schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of > colorblindness > is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk Sun Feb 22 13:30:16 2009 From: jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk (Juke of Shrewsbury) Date: Sun Feb 22 13:31:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors References: <939364.90730.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ron, I think the colours for flex officially changed over 30 years ago, but the old colours were around until much more recently, mainly on old appliances. Just recently they (The EU) also changed the colours for "fixed" wiring. This had remained as Red and Black in the UK for single phase installations. The new fixed wiring colours are now the same as the flex colours for single phase... but 3 phase is another matter!! Norman - I think you are right about the "Red earth" on German 50's and 60's stuff. I'm not sure Oliver will own up to this though!! Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Adrian, How "old" is "old" ?? And BTW, which country has "house wiring" lamp switches mounted "up-sidedown" ? USA "on" is up, UK, "on" is down ??? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Juke of Shrewsbury wrote: From: Juke of Shrewsbury Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 12:09 PM ...And just to complete the picture, the "old" British colours were: Red = Live Black = Neutral Green = Earth Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hennigan" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of > what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I > had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is > earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off > switch, > it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white > is > neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to > the > brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against > the > schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of > colorblindness > is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00 From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 22 13:42:48 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 22 13:43:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <557327.65495.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Adrian, I generally use the word "madder", rather then "matter",?in cases like the 3 phase stuff---BTW, red, in house wiring here is used as the "2nd hot", as most homes are wired with 220 vac, but only use 117 at the outlets--Outlets here will be wired with white as nut. and either black, or red as hot---see what I mean by "madder" ? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Juke of Shrewsbury wrote: From: Juke of Shrewsbury Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 1:30 PM Ron, I think the colours for flex officially changed over 30 years ago, but the old colours were around until much more recently, mainly on old appliances.. Just recently they (The EU) also changed the colours for "fixed" wiring. This had remained as Red and Black in the UK for single phase installations.. The new fixed wiring colours are now the same as the flex colours for single phase... but 3 phase is another matter!! Norman - I think you are right about the "Red earth" on German 50's and 60's stuff. I'm not sure Oliver will own up to this though!! Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Adrian, How "old" is "old" ?? And BTW, which country has "house wiring" lamp switches mounted "up-sidedown" ? USA "on" is up, UK, "on" is down ??? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Juke of Shrewsbury wrote: From: Juke of Shrewsbury Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 12:09 PM ....And just to complete the picture, the "old" British colours were: Red = Live Black = Neutral Green = Earth Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hennigan" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of > what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I > had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is > earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off > switch, > it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white > is > neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to > the > brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against > the > schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of > colorblindness > is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk Sun Feb 22 13:42:49 2009 From: jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk (Juke of Shrewsbury) Date: Sun Feb 22 13:44:02 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: switch orientation References: <939364.90730.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5E58F59FAB3C45498D771BA98E6168E3@JUKEBUS> ...forgot about the switches: Yours are upside down! Not only house wiring, the on off switches on jukeboxes are also upside down. You will be pleased to know that when I do a restoration and replace the switch, I fit the new one upside down as well to keep it authentic. Actually I can understand the reasons for the US orientation. If a switch is going to be accidentally operated it is more likely to be knocked down - therefore it is safer if this is the off position. Many years ago, I worked in a Theatre and during a performance one very old and very well worn switch failed, it's actuator fell from the "up" to the "down" position under it's own weight. Unfortunately the switch switched on a cue light causing the stage crew to lower the curtain at a most inappropriate moment!! If we had used the American system this would not have happened. Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Adrian, How "old" is "old" ?? And BTW, which country has "house wiring" lamp switches mounted "up-sidedown" ? USA "on" is up, UK, "on" is down ??? Ron Rich --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Juke of Shrewsbury wrote: From: Juke of Shrewsbury Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 12:09 PM ...And just to complete the picture, the "old" British colours were: Red = Live Black = Neutral Green = Earth Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hennigan" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding of > what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed that I > had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is > earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off > switch, > it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, white > is > neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black is line (to > the > brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the other end against > the > schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of > colorblindness > is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00 From bobe at halted.com Sun Feb 22 10:11:41 2009 From: bobe at halted.com (Bob E.) Date: Sun Feb 22 14:31:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance In-Reply-To: <941230.3102.qm@web111316.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <941230.3102.qm@web111316.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A1955D.9080209@halted.com> Ron Rich wrote: > "Disco package"--starting with the LPC 480-D, runnng thru at least the APFEA-1 model. > Contained the "dance floor, sign and the large external speakers". I've never seen any of the marketing for Seeburg's "Discotheque" campaign (except for the PFEA1-U phonos and the DDS speakers). I'd be interested to see some brochures or ads. Apparently, Wurlitzer tried it for a short while as well, as I do have a brochure for their equivalent "Discotheque by Wurlitzer" package, and it's really a hoot. It has a picture of the 2900 series phono, flanked by two large DDS-type external floor-standing console speakers (without Altec horns, though). If you bought the complete Discotheque package (it came in three levels), you got 9 large (3 ft. by 8 ft.!) black-light posters with cartoon, uh, "jungle natives" beating on drums and slogans like: "Dance to the Rhythmic Moods of Wurlitzer Discotheque...music selected by Arthur Murray Studios" or "Do the Hully Gully to our Big Band Discotheque". I'd love to see some of these posters for real! I don't know if they sold the black lights, but the brochure talks about the "Large Wall Banners which ARE the dances...produced in brilliant fluorescent colors that glow with black light. Makes a so-so spot into a go-go spot in a hurry." You could also get window banners, table-tents, napkins and coasters, and even Arthur Murray discotheque instructors to teach your customers in your location on an exclusive arrangement! There was also supposed to be a selection of 60 records especially programmed for Discotheque dancing pressed exclusively for Wurlitzer with specially-colored title strips. I've never seen any of these things, they must be a lot rarer than the Seeburg stuff. I have some of the "Rec-o-Dance" records, and there were some called the "Disc-o-teen" series as well, I think. They are just normal, small-hole 7" records, by the way. --Bob From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Sun Feb 22 14:36:23 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Sun Feb 22 14:37:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance In-Reply-To: <49A1955D.9080209@halted.com> Message-ID: <954056.73710.qm@web111303.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bob, ?? Ron --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Bob E. wrote: From: Bob E. Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 10:11 AM Ron Rich wrote: > "Disco package"--starting with the LPC 480-D, runnng thru at least the APFEA-1 model. > Contained the "dance floor, sign and the large external speakers". I've never seen any of the marketing for Seeburg's "Discotheque" campaign (except for the PFEA1-U phonos and the DDS speakers). I'd be interested to see some brochures or ads. Apparently, Wurlitzer tried it for a short while as well, as I do have a brochure for their equivalent "Discotheque by Wurlitzer" package, and it's really a hoot. It has a picture of the 2900 series phono, flanked by two large DDS-type external floor-standing console speakers (without Altec horns, though). If you bought the complete Discotheque package (it came in three levels), you got 9 large (3 ft. by 8 ft.!) black-light posters with cartoon, uh, "jungle natives" beating on drums and slogans like: "Dance to the Rhythmic Moods of Wurlitzer Discotheque...music selected by Arthur Murray Studios" or "Do the Hully Gully to our Big Band Discotheque". I'd love to see some of these posters for real! I don't know if they sold the black lights, but the brochure talks about the "Large Wall Banners which ARE the dances...produced in brilliant fluorescent colors that glow with black light. Makes a so-so spot into a go-go spot in a hurry." You could also get window banners, table-tents, napkins and coasters, and even Arthur Murray discotheque instructors to teach your customers in your location on an exclusive arrangement! There was also supposed to be a selection of 60 records especially programmed for Discotheque dancing pressed exclusively for Wurlitzer with specially-colored title strips. I've never seen any of these things, they must be a lot rarer than the Seeburg stuff. I have some of the "Rec-o-Dance" records, and there were some called the "Disc-o-teen" series as well, I think. They are just normal, small-hole 7" records, by the way. --Bob _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From david_breneman at yahoo.com Sun Feb 22 14:37:42 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Sun Feb 22 14:38:48 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors In-Reply-To: <939364.90730.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <98106.40346.qm@web42101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Ron Rich wrote: > How "old" is "old" ?? And BTW, which > country has "house wiring" lamp switches mounted > "up-sidedown" ? USA "on" is up, UK, "on" is down ??? My house, built in 1939 (in fact, two years before electricity came to this area) still has a few of its original light switches, and they are mounted in the "British" fashion. Every time an electrician works on a circuit, he "fixes" the switch for me. :-) ...BTW, thanks to those who recommended a simple lubrication of the credit unit. Works like a charm now. From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Sun Feb 22 18:10:07 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 22 18:11:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f120 carriage switch Message-ID: Hi all, I've got a new problem with my f120. The rear carriage switch has stopped working. The front switch is power and energizes the switching relay, no activity on the reversing relay. The rear carriage switch has no impact at all. Any ideas will be appreciated. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009 From dirksenj at bellsouth.net Sun Feb 22 18:55:22 2009 From: dirksenj at bellsouth.net (dirksenj@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 22 18:56:36 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f120 carriage switch References: Message-ID: <000501c99562$2bf526f0$6101a8c0@Dirksen> If the front switch activates the selection relay, then the problem has to be either the rear switch contacts are dirty or not making physical contact, or the rear reset solenoid is open, or the wiring to either of these is broken. You should not have any activity on the reversing relay until the record is on the turntable and either the record finishes or you press the cancel button. Good luck, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Shaw" To: "jukebox group" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:10 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] f120 carriage switch Hi all, I've got a new problem with my f120. The rear carriage switch has stopped working. The front switch is power and energizes the switching relay, no activity on the reversing relay. The rear carriage switch has no impact at all. Any ideas will be appreciated. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From list at brandd.com Sun Feb 22 19:03:42 2009 From: list at brandd.com (list@brandd.com) Date: Sun Feb 22 20:03:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Personal Jukebox Blog Started Message-ID: <194D6306-91F2-4D24-913C-74F003D3C72B@brandd.com> My name is Sean. I joined the list a couple of months ago. I'm beginning to restore a Wurlitzer 2000 and I have set up a webpage to track my progress. I don't know very much about restoring jukeboxes, so I'm sure i'll have lots of questions. My progress will start out slowly, as I make a game plan, and speed up once I'm further into the progress. http://wurlitzer2000.com From gnharvey at iprimus.com.au Sun Feb 22 20:39:59 2009 From: gnharvey at iprimus.com.au (Graeme Harvey) Date: Sun Feb 22 20:56:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Personal Jukebox Blog Started References: <194D6306-91F2-4D24-913C-74F003D3C72B@brandd.com> Message-ID: <43EAA81B343541DB86806E8BAD363A4B@Graeme> Best of luck Sean. I will follow your progress. You have come to the right place for help and encouragement. The members of this list, I have found to go out of their way to help. You have one of the most desirable jukeboxes from the silver age. Take your time. I have not restored any Wurlitzer's myself mainly because I have not been lucky enough to come across one here in Australia. I have restored many AMI's from this period and the personal satisfaction when finished is immense. Graeme Harvey ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Personal Jukebox Blog Started > My name is Sean. I joined the list a couple of months ago. I'm beginning > to restore a Wurlitzer 2000 and I have set up a webpage to track my > progress. > > I don't know very much about restoring jukeboxes, so I'm sure i'll have > lots of questions. My progress will start out slowly, as I make a game > plan, and speed up once I'm further into the progress. > > http://wurlitzer2000.com > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Sun Feb 22 23:43:42 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 22 23:46:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list]color blind? was- Rock-Ola 434 Message-ID: <20090223.024342.8010.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: I'll offer my 2 cents worth on the RO power cord colors. Some of their early to mid 60's jukes used a 16/3 AC power cord, with the AC power plug running into the junction box/main power supply chassis. This cable had the 3 typical colors, where black = AC high , white = AC neutral and green = ground. There was a second hard-wired 16/3 AC power cord, leaving the junction box chassis to the external rear panel -mounted AC toggle switch. The colors used in this wire were sometimes red, white, and green. Some machines I've worked on had this wire equipped with the standard black-white-green colors. (replacement cable?) Judging from the emails on the subject, apparently the color-blindness theory has merit. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click now to find great remedies for hangovers! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYX6cOnZmGlFG0mByUKECFFmOrVxvlRqBrmYEULFfCL5K88q1ctKTG/ From stamann at jukebox-world.de Mon Feb 23 00:04:31 2009 From: stamann at jukebox-world.de (Stamann) Date: Mon Feb 23 00:06:57 2009 Subject: AW: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Message-ID: Hello Norman, correct - before 1968 red (and other colours ...) had been used. Best regards - Oliver -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] Im Auftrag von NORMAN MACRAE Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Februar 2009 21:31 An: Jukebox mailing list Betreff: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors In the early 60s, didn't Germany use red as earth; Oliver, help me here please - what do you say about this? Norman. ________________________________ From: Jay Hennigan To: Jukebox mailing list Sent: Sunday, 22 February, 2009 6:17:44 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Ron Rich wrote: > Wow--I never knew that--thanks Jay, I now have a better understanding > of what the Army Dr. said about my eysight, 40+ years ago--He claimed > that I had "shade blindness"--Good enough for the army to want > me----Ron Rich And, I was thinking from a USA standpoint, failed to realize that this box was in the UK. Oops! My suspicion as to what happened: Box was originally made for the USA market or in the USA, had a line cord with white, black, green. Box wound up in the UK and line cord was replaced. Replacement wire available locally had white, black, red. The person doing the repair matched up the black and white color-for-color and swapped red for green. I can't imagine a manufacturer ever using red for a ground (earth) connection. USA standard is still: Green = ground White = neutral Black = live IEC standard computer style cords use: Green (w/yellow stripe) = ground Brown = neutral Blue = live > digital.john@btopenworld.com wrote: >> Hello I have a Rock-Ola 434 that someone cut the plug off and now > don't know which wire is which, >> the three wires are black, white and red, when tested with a meter >> from > wire to chassis there is continuity from the red which should mean red is earth. > Looking at the wires the black and white seem to go down to the on off > switch, it just doesn't seem right that red would be earth any advice appreciated. > The standard line cord is black, white, and green. Green is ground, > white is neutral (to the silver-colored screw on the plug) and black > is line (to the brass-colored screw). It would be best to compare the > other end against the schematic. > > Have you had your color vision tested? The most common form of > colorblindness is difficulty differentiating red and green. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 23 00:06:35 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 23 00:09:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance Message-ID: <20090223.030635.3607.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: Hmmm....that's interesting. I worked as a service tech for a midwestern US vendor in the 60's that had a sizable juke route. They were big Wurlitzer users, with a few Seeburg machines. I was working there in '65 when the W 2900 and LPC-480's came out. The Wurlitzer sales people and the distrib. were in regular contact as they had 100 + machines. I don't remember Wurlitzer offering a disco promotion-- although it's possible. I vaguely remember the Seeburg marketing push and I believe that Rowe came out with some special big format amplified speakers (maybe more?) as a disco package. The company I worked for didn't get into the disco thing... Most of their juke clients were neighborhood "workingmans' bars" and several family-restaurant chains,with multiple locations. These chain stores usually had hideaway juke installations based on Seeburg LPC-1's (the wallboxes with the personal speakers were a hot item) or the W2900-3000, after they brought out their speakered wallbox. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Find DNA testing resources and more online. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXXSln63Q9UoIWBHSC7K9KXIkXBv87a2lowm4etKWgRn1eG6z4OdQ/ From Homer87015 at aol.com Mon Feb 23 00:59:48 2009 From: Homer87015 at aol.com (Homer87015@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 23 01:07:09 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f120 carriage switch Message-ID: I have had trouble with those switches on my Bal-Ami E80- they seem to need a fair bit of cleaning-more often than I would have expected. Anyway, a good clean with electrical contact cleaner and thin card pulled between the contacts sorts it. I have noticed that they all spark a lot-.Having been around "classic" cars for a time with points/coil ignition I wondered about fitting a Capacitor(condenser in auto-speak) in each circuit. But I haven`t got the technical knowledge to select one of the correct capacity. Any ideas from the electronics Tech-Guys here? Best Wishes, Nige. From h8msy at aol.com Mon Feb 23 02:21:56 2009 From: h8msy at aol.com (h8msy@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 23 02:29:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Jukebox-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 22 Message-ID: In Germany all machines had a Red wire for the Ground or Earth as it is known in the UK, Rock-ola had a factory in Germany and all the machines that were made there had this colour code. Tony Holmes From gibson510 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 23 04:37:48 2009 From: gibson510 at hotmail.com (rick murray) Date: Mon Feb 23 04:38:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron Message-ID: Ron, in a recent post by me regarding a USC-2 selection problem, I stated the machine would not select any B sides or A sides using the #2 digit. You asked me if It would play selection #122 it will not. In fact any B side selection tried will not even energize the play control solenoid. It accepts the selection via the key pad, Button one light, button two light etc, but mech does not start. Can you steer me in the right direction? Thanks Rick _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009 From pinbore at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 23 05:09:47 2009 From: pinbore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Taylor) Date: Mon Feb 23 05:17:38 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E Message-ID: <125580.47731.qm@web26001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> My AMI I-120E has the usual, acceptable slight hum when the amplifier is switched in before playing a record. However, when the stylus touches down on the record, a secondary slightly more obtrusive hum can be heard. If I lift the pickup off the record this more pronounced hum disappears. It's not turntable rumble as it is still present when the turntable is deactivated but with the stylus still resting on the record. I've tried running an earth between the pickup etc but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how I can get rid of this secondary hum. I rebuilt the amp and the sound quality is superb otherwise. Thanks for any responses. From justinwstephens at hotmail.com Mon Feb 23 06:34:04 2009 From: justinwstephens at hotmail.com (Justin W. Stephens) Date: Mon Feb 23 06:40:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] the last Rowe cd jukebox Message-ID: I was on flickr the other night and came across a set of photos that looked like possibly the Rowe jukebox manufacturing plant. It shows a bunch of people crowded around a Rowe 1015 and a more recent model of CD jukebox. There was no info or captions on the photos Save for one tag.....it says "The last Rowe CD jukebox". http://flickr.com/photos/local84981/3291263383/ Is this possible? I couldn't find any info out there....not even on Rowe's official site. Thoughts? If it's true, it's interesting. It's the end of an era; albeit a short one. CD jukeboxes at this point seem kind of quaint....kind of like seeing a vinyl jukebox still operating in the mid-90's. I can't see operating a fleet of CD jukeboxes and making any real money considering the technology that's out there today and the rising cost of everything. Justin _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Discover 10 secrets about the new Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!7540.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_ugc_post_022009 From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 09:01:31 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:02:38 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <530029.62626.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rick, Ok,I'll try-- First of all, with the power OFF, examine ALL the plugs on the DES, DTP, DCC (including the 311134 interface PCB), and the DRD. Look for a pin that's bent"down" (or "low"). What "dash" (-?) number is the interface PCB ?--and look for a ("leg")?twisted transistor on that board. You might want to clean the contact "pad" on?all the PCB's involved -- use a "plastic safe" non-residue (leaving) type "safety solvent". After doing that try it again--if the symptoms are still the same, try selecting # 155 and let me know what happens-- Ron --- On Mon, 2/23/09, rick murray wrote: From: rick murray Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron To: "jukebox list" Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 4:37 AM Ron, in a recent post by me regarding a USC-2 selection problem, I stated the machine would not select any B sides or A sides using the #2 digit. You asked me if It would play selection #122 it will not. In fact any B side selection tried will not even energize the play control solenoid. It accepts the selection via the key pad, Button one light, button two light etc, but mech does not start. Can you steer me in the right direction? Thanks Rick _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From deanmink2003 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 09:01:33 2009 From: deanmink2003 at yahoo.com (Dean Mi nk) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:02:42 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? Message-ID: <765491.30816.qm@web38804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> On my Seeburg M100B I have to turn the volume up to about 1/4 for it to even be audible. Could I just swap the volume control with a new potentiometer or would a disassembly and cleaning do the trick? Also it seems that when turning the bass control through its four settings, there doesn't seem to be any change and its definately lacking in bass. Is there a way to test it to see if its functioning or if its something else? The amp is a MRA3-L6 and I have a blackhead mono cartridge. Thanks From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 09:12:56 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:14:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] the last Rowe cd jukebox In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <136580.77772.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Justin, You missed the tag line by one letter--S---"The last Rowe CD jukeboxeS"--maybe the have enough parts to still put a few together ??? I don't know if any company is still producing a "commercial" CD juke?? Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Justin W. Stephens wrote: From: Justin W. Stephens Subject: [Jukebox-list] the last Rowe cd jukebox To: "Jukebox list" Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 6:34 AM I was on flickr the other night and came across a set of photos that looked like possibly the Rowe jukebox manufacturing plant. It shows a bunch of people crowded around a Rowe 1015 and a more recent model of CD jukebox. There was no info or captions on the photos Save for one tag.....it says "The last Rowe CD jukebox". http://flickr.com/photos/local84981/3291263383/ Is this possible? I couldn't find any info out there....not even on Rowe's official site. Thoughts? If it's true, it's interesting. It's the end of an era; albeit a short one. CD jukeboxes at this point seem kind of quaint....kind of like seeing a vinyl jukebox still operating in the mid-90's. I can't see operating a fleet of CD jukeboxes and making any real money considering the technology that's out there today and the rising cost of everything. Justin _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Discover 10 secrets about the new Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!7540.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_ugc_post_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 23 09:12:38 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:15:42 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E Message-ID: <20090223.121238.26938.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> Hello Paul: RE: audio hum levels The hum you are describing sounds like there is difference in ground potential between the amplifier and the record changer. When you touch the tone arm, you may be grounding the tone arm, cartridge, etc through your body. I'm assuming that you can vary this hum level using the volume control, right? Normally, the record changer and amplifier need to be grounded together outside of the cartridge wiring for hum-free performance. The cartridge should normally be isolated from the metal tone arm using spacers, plastic screws, etc, and be connected to the amp input jack using a shielded cable. If the shielded cable between the changer and the amp is in decrepit,shaky condition, this can cause hum pickup. The same goes for the miniature cable (usually a shielded or twisted pair type) within the tone arm. Another possibility----could you be mistaking hum for a low freq-acoustic feedback? This is a low freq note(s) that will occur at high volume settings when the cabinet speaker(s) energy are being coupled back to the cartridge. This can happen when the stylus is resting on a record surface--rotating or not. The immediate fix for this is to reduce the volume or the bass control setting. Hope this helps, JIm Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Get the word out. Click here for professional brochure production! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYZYUiizbhr00uLzg5LM7G4BntsYTyxCRSdIRadG9oc01hOZvLAyyM/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 23 09:38:30 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:41:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? Message-ID: <20090223.123830.10068.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> Dean: The 1/4-volume control setting before getting appreciable volume output seems about normal. The gain of the amplifier is designed so that it will reach max output (before clipping distortion sets in) only near the full volume setting. If, at the max volume setting, playing a loud recording,the audio signal remains "clean", your amp's gain is below paar. I believe that the B amp is not equipped with an automatic volume circuit. In case it is, some additional gain can usually be obtained by removing the AVC control tube (6SK7?) from it's socket. If yes, this should be treated as a temporary solution. Changing the volume control's value or cleaning it won't obtain more audio gain. If your sound system seems to have less output & gain than it once had, this is a sign that there's a component failing within the amp, that's causing a deterioration of the signal. This can be a weak tube (a common problem) or something more. Your amp is equipped with a "loudness contour" circuit, coupled to the volume control. At higher volume settings, the bass freq response is slowly rolled off, as the ear naturally hears the bass notes better. If you're having to use abnormally high volume settings (more than half) to obtain background sound levels, this would explain why the bass control seems to lose effectiveness. Has this amp been rebuilt at some point? How long ago? The average "shelf" life for capacitors is 15-20 years. These devices deteriorate over time and can cause a degraded signal. A Seeburg B (1951) amp is 50+ years old. Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ 30 Seconds can save a lifetime. Get it done. Its never been easier. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYdlFs9FyzpOOBZRRMOxFs58mpBknkziZQCo4S85Z1mrd3Q87nK1Je/ From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 23 09:46:08 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:49:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron Message-ID: <20090223.124608.10068.1@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> Gentlemen: With Seeburg Microlog jukes, dirty edge connectors on the PC boards seem to be a frequent cause for quirky little problems like this. I've cleaned the board contacts with a good quality pencil eraser and it solves the problem. The edge connectors are in the control center's PC boards, and the ribbon connectors on the black and gray boxes. BTW, if it turns out these connections are really dirty, there are several more in the amplifier that are usually in the same shape. JIm Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Do something nice for your skin. Click now for great skin care products! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYS3HD9PSmwHSeSdAtkMqRIzFgtdsqxMQfehgfVPWrK8DpKxkRb1Ve/ From bobe at halted.com Mon Feb 23 11:11:24 2009 From: bobe at halted.com (Bob Ellingson) Date: Mon Feb 23 11:24:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance Message-ID: <2.2.32.20090223191124.0099d54c@hsces.com> At 08:06 AM 2/23/2009 GMT, you wrote: > >Gentlemen: >Hmmm....that's interesting. >I worked as a service tech for a midwestern US vendor in the 60's that had a sizable juke route. They were big Wurlitzer users, with a few Seeburg machines. I was working there in '65 when the W 2900 and LPC-480's came out. The Wurlitzer sales people and the distrib. were in regular contact as they had 100 + machines. >I don't remember Wurlitzer offering a disco promotion-- although it's possible. "Get with it, Man!" (at least that's what it said on the cover!)...Bill Butterfield just auctioned off one of the Wurlitzer brochures I was talking about, if you're quick you can still see it...eBay item # 140300741156 --Bob ======================================================================= Bob Ellingson bobe@halted.com Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) From deanmink2003 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 11:46:40 2009 From: deanmink2003 at yahoo.com (Dean Mi nk) Date: Mon Feb 23 11:47:46 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? Message-ID: <359605.58017.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim, the amp was just rebuilt. I pulled the 6SK7 tube and it made the volume twice as loud as it was before and the bass control works normal. It becomes audible at about 1/16th volume. You mentioned this is only a temporary solution, what can I do to make it permanent? Thanks again ? ? --- On Mon, 2/23/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:38 AM -----Inline Attachment Follows----- Dean: The 1/4-volume control setting before getting appreciable volume output seems about normal.? The gain of the amplifier is designed so that it will reach max output? (before clipping distortion sets in) only near the full volume setting.???If, at the max volume setting, playing a loud recording,the audio signal remains "clean", your amp's gain is below paar.? ? I believe that the B amp is not equipped with an automatic volume circuit.? In case it is, some additional gain can usually be obtained by removing the AVC control tube (6SK7?) from it's socket.? If yes, this should be treated as a temporary solution. Changing the volume control's value or cleaning it won't obtain more audio gain. If your sound system seems to have less output & gain than it once had, this is a sign that there's a component failing within the amp, that's causing a deterioration of the signal.? This can be a weak tube (a common problem) or something more.? ???Your amp is equipped with a "loudness contour" circuit, coupled to the volume control.? At higher volume settings, the bass freq response is slowly rolled off, as the ear naturally hears the bass notes better.? If you're having to use abnormally high volume settings (more than half) to obtain background sound levels, this would explain why the bass control seems to lose effectiveness. ???Has this amp been rebuilt at some point? How long ago?? ???The average "shelf" life for capacitors is 15-20 years.? These devices deteriorate over time and can cause a degraded signal.? A Seeburg B (1951) amp is 50+ years old. Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ 30 Seconds can save a lifetime. Get it done. Its never been easier. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYdlFs9FyzpOOBZRRMOxFs58mpBknkziZQCo4S85Z1mrd3Q87nK1Je/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Mon Feb 23 12:03:02 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Mon Feb 23 12:04:07 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f 120 selector problem Message-ID: I've got a better description of my f 120 problem. I pressed a selection, the carriage went to the selection, this time it sat there and ran, did not pick up a record, smoke came from the right rear corner and stayed just like that. I shut it down, had to pry the selector pin down from the carriage pawl, it was really bound. Now, the rear selector pawl switch, when pressed, does nothing. When I press the front selector pawl switch, the selector relay activates, turntable spins, transfer arm does not engage to load record. I did check voltage on the rear side switch and it is 14v on one side of the switch,when I activate the swicth, the voltage drops to near zero on both sides. If I manually activate the reversing coil, it buzzes a bit, no action at all. I have ordered a replacement reset solenoid, reversing switch assy and the selector switch assy. Just wanted to get some ideas before I put the replacement parts at risk. One note, the carriage assembly was not stopping in the proper place in relation to the record when it was to pick up. It lined up and missed record by approx 1/2" a couple of times, then the above happened. thank you _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009 From joe400f at shaw.ca Mon Feb 23 12:11:46 2009 From: joe400f at shaw.ca (Joey McDonald) Date: Mon Feb 23 12:12:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f 120 selector problem References: Message-ID: <001101c995f2$f414adf0$ad9b4e18@compaq> Missing a record slot by half an inch on that model would bring it to the next selection or previous selection depending on which way the mech was travelling. Do you have the manual so we can walk through some checks with the correct terminology? Since there was smoke, do you know what component was overheated? Gripper arm jammed and possibly overheated the gripper motor? Have you checked the fuses and made sure they are the correct size fuse? This is very important !!!!! Has the the rectifier been replaced in the power supply? Joey McDonald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Shaw" To: "jukebox group" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] f 120 selector problem I've got a better description of my f 120 problem. I pressed a selection, the carriage went to the selection, this time it sat there and ran, did not pick up a record, smoke came from the right rear corner and stayed just like that. I shut it down, had to pry the selector pin down from the carriage pawl, it was really bound. Now, the rear selector pawl switch, when pressed, does nothing. When I press the front selector pawl switch, the selector relay activates, turntable spins, transfer arm does not engage to load record. I did check voltage on the rear side switch and it is 14v on one side of the switch,when I activate the swicth, the voltage drops to near zero on both sides. If I manually activate the reversing coil, it buzzes a bit, no action at all. I have ordered a replacement reset solenoid, reversing switch assy and the selector switch assy. Just wanted to get some ideas before I put the replacement parts at risk. One note, the carriage assembly was not stopping in the proper place in relation to the record when it was to pick up. It lined up and missed record by approx 1/2" a couple of times, then the above happened. thank you _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From david_breneman at yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 14:37:55 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Mon Feb 23 14:38:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E In-Reply-To: <125580.47731.qm@web26001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <820850.47320.qm@web42108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Paul Taylor wrote: > ...However, > when the stylus touches down on the record, a secondary > slightly more obtrusive hum can be heard. If I lift the > pickup off the record this more pronounced hum disappears... I'd be interested in hearing any solutions to this problem as well. I have the same problem on my AMI A. I assumed it was rumble related because changing out the motor mounting dampers decreased the amount of hum noticeably but did not eliminate it. I never tried resting the pickup on the record with the motor disconnected. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 15:03:02 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 23 15:04:10 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? In-Reply-To: <359605.58017.qm@web38807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <979815.84513.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dean, Send it back to whomever "re-built" it? -'causeit were knot did rite !? Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Dean Mi nk wrote: From: Dean Mi nk Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:46 AM Jim, the amp was just rebuilt. I pulled the 6SK7 tube and it made the volume twice as loud as it was before and the bass control works normal. It becomes audible at about 1/16th volume. You mentioned this is only a temporary solution, what can I do to make it permanent? Thanks again ? ? --- On Mon, 2/23/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:38 AM -----Inline Attachment Follows----- Dean: The 1/4-volume control setting before getting appreciable volume output seems about normal.? The gain of the amplifier is designed so that it will reach max output? (before clipping distortion sets in) only near the full volume setting.???If, at the max volume setting, playing a loud recording,the audio signal remains "clean", your amp's gain is below paar.? ? I believe that the B amp is not equipped with an automatic volume circuit.? In case it is, some additional gain can usually be obtained by removing the AVC control tube (6SK7?) from it's socket.? If yes, this should be treated as a temporary solution. Changing the volume control's value or cleaning it won't obtain more audio gain. If your sound system seems to have less output & gain than it once had, this is a sign that there's a component failing within the amp, that's causing a deterioration of the signal.? This can be a weak tube (a common problem) or something more.? ???Your amp is equipped with a "loudness contour" circuit, coupled to the volume control.? At higher volume settings, the bass freq response is slowly rolled off, as the ear naturally hears the bass notes better.? If you're having to use abnormally high volume settings (more than half) to obtain background sound levels, this would explain why the bass control seems to lose effectiveness. ???Has this amp been rebuilt at some point? How long ago?? ???The average "shelf" life for capacitors is 15-20 years.? These devices deteriorate over time and can cause a degraded signal.? A Seeburg B (1951) amp is 50+ years old. Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ 30 Seconds can save a lifetime. Get it done. Its never been easier. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYdlFs9FyzpOOBZRRMOxFs58mpBknkziZQCo4S85Z1mrd3Q87nK1Je/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 15:28:53 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 23 15:29:57 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron In-Reply-To: <20090223.124608.10068.1@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <909964.19769.qm@web111302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jim, What's the question ??--and for which "Ron" ?? Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/23/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 9:46 AM Gentlemen: With Seeburg Microlog jukes, dirty edge connectors on the PC boards seem to be a frequent cause for quirky little problems like this. I've cleaned the board contacts with a good quality pencil eraser and it solves the problem. The edge connectors are in the control center's PC boards, and the ribbon connectors on the black and gray boxes. BTW, if it turns out these connections are really dirty, there are several more in the amplifier that are usually in the same shape. JIm Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Do something nice for your skin. Click now for great skin care products! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYS3HD9PSmwHSeSdAtkMqRIzFgtdsqxMQfehgfVPWrK8DpKxkRb1Ve/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Mon Feb 23 15:57:25 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Mon Feb 23 15:58:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E In-Reply-To: <125580.47731.qm@web26001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <125580.47731.qm@web26001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A337E5.7060804@west.net> Paul Taylor wrote: > My AMI I-120E has the usual, acceptable slight hum when the amplifier is switched in before playing a record. However, when the stylus touches down on the record, a secondary slightly more obtrusive hum can be heard. If I lift the pickup off the record this more pronounced hum disappears. It's not turntable rumble as it is still present when the turntable is deactivated but with the stylus still resting on the record. I've tried running an earth between the pickup etc but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how I can get rid of this secondary hum. I rebuilt the amp and the sound quality is superb otherwise. Thanks for any responses. If very slightly lifting the stylus just off of the surface of the record makes the hum go away, then it's a mechanical vibration being coupled to the stylus. The most common cause is bad motor bearings or mounts. As you are still getting it with the turntable motor turned off (is this what you mean by "deactivated"?) I would look for another source of vibration, perhaps a fluorescent ballast or solenoid could be the culprit. If you have a mechanic's stethoscope you might be able to narrow it down. Otherwise try to isolate possible sources of vibration being coupled to the turntable platter. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 23 15:59:40 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:03:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron Message-ID: <20090223.185940.15917.0@webmail21.vgs.untd.com> Ron: I was attempting to offer my two cents worth of advice. Here in the humid Southeast, dirty contacts/high resistance connections on the PC edge connectors are a frequently-overlooked source of logic errors in these machines. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Looking for insurance? Click to compare and save big. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYVv6wgbL1OpDXMSiQb5PuuVTMfgzPcOLcB778oi1sblj6aVj6TIxa/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 16:04:26 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:05:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E In-Reply-To: <49A337E5.7060804@west.net> Message-ID: <233567.36528.qm@web111308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jay, and others, This reminded me--If you do not have a stethoscope, a long "Phillips" screw driver with a plastic handle-shoved into your ear, will also work to pinpoint the noise-- Ron Rich --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: From: Jay Hennigan Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 3:57 PM Paul Taylor wrote: > My AMI I-120E has the usual, acceptable slight hum when the amplifier is switched in before playing a record. However, when the stylus touches down on the record, a secondary slightly more obtrusive hum can be heard. If I lift the pickup off the record this more pronounced hum disappears. It's not turntable rumble as it is still present when the turntable is deactivated but with the stylus still resting on the record. I've tried running an earth between the pickup etc but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how I can get rid of this secondary hum. I rebuilt the amp and the sound quality is superb otherwise. Thanks for any responses. If very slightly lifting the stylus just off of the surface of the record makes the hum go away, then it's a mechanical vibration being coupled to the stylus. The most common cause is bad motor bearings or mounts. As you are still getting it with the turntable motor turned off (is this what you mean by "deactivated"?) I would look for another source of vibration, perhaps a fluorescent ballast or solenoid could be the culprit. If you have a mechanic's stethoscope you might be able to narrow it down. Otherwise try to isolate possible sources of vibration being coupled to the turntable platter. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jalexandercc at netzero.net Mon Feb 23 16:26:13 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:28:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? Message-ID: <20090223.192613.24580.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Dean: OK the test you ran by pulling the 6SK7 tube proves several things---- one, your amp does an automatic volume control function. two, You are having to use abnormally high vol control settings if your sound system sounds "thin" to your ear. three, Ron Rich, in this forum is advising you to send your amp back to the rebuilder-servicer for follow-up or warranty service. Possibly, you will wind up having to do this. You might be able to save yourself the trouble of removing and sending the amp back. The low-gain problem may be caused by a weak or failing tube in the audio signal chain. Put the 6SK7 tube back in it's socket. As it warms up, it will reduce the volume output of the amplifer. When a record is playing, at a moderate volume setting, try tapping on the other amplifier tubes with the eraser end of a pencil. If a tube is intermittent or microphonic, you'll either hear static/noise in the speaker and the signal volume might jump up and down. If this happens, replace that tube. If you have spare tubes on hand, you need to try replacing them by substitution one at a time. Pull tubes only when the amp is off or in the "at rest",position when no record is playing. It's best to change one tube at a time and try it. Depending upon your amp model, Tube types 5U4, 6L6 (there are 2 of these) or 6V6 (there are 4 of these) are less likely to affect audio gain, but all the others can make a difference. If changing the tubes this way doesn't improve the gain situation, or if you don't have any spares for testing, the amp should be sent back to the servicer. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ You will believe your eyes! Click here for great whale watching packages! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXA9ARTHsdtLPNQBbkaz60q37npBV6FQVVUcBaDkxdZtneanFQXdu/ From jeffzurn at cox.net Mon Feb 23 16:31:30 2009 From: jeffzurn at cox.net (Jeff Zurn) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:32:36 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E References: <233567.36528.qm@web111308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c99617$3d1cc680$e0da4109@ZURNT60> be sure to shove the plastic end! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E > Jay, and others, > This reminded me--If you do not have a stethoscope, a long "Phillips" > screw driver with a plastic handle-shoved into your ear, will also work to > pinpoint the noise-- Ron Rich > > --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: > > From: Jay Hennigan > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 3:57 PM > > Paul Taylor wrote: >> My AMI I-120E has the usual, acceptable slight hum when the amplifier is > switched in before playing a record. However, when the stylus touches down > on > the record, a secondary slightly more obtrusive hum can be heard. If I > lift the > pickup off the record this more pronounced hum disappears. It's not > turntable rumble as it is still present when the turntable is deactivated > but > with the stylus still resting on the record. I've tried running an earth > between the pickup etc but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how I > can get > rid of this secondary hum. I rebuilt the amp and the sound quality is > superb > otherwise. Thanks for any responses. > > If very slightly lifting the stylus just off of the surface of the record > makes > the hum go away, then it's a mechanical vibration being coupled to the > stylus. The most common cause is bad motor bearings or mounts. > > As you are still getting it with the turntable motor turned off (is this > what > you mean by "deactivated"?) I would look for another source of > vibration, perhaps a fluorescent ballast or solenoid could be the culprit. > > If you have a mechanic's stethoscope you might be able to narrow it down. > Otherwise try to isolate possible sources of vibration being coupled to > the > turntable platter. > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net > Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From jeremy at dwave.net Mon Feb 23 18:15:06 2009 From: jeremy at dwave.net (Jeremy Agema) Date: Mon Feb 23 18:16:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] NSM Satellite computer fixed Message-ID: <20090224020314.M64396@dwave.net> Hello all - A while back we had Tom post about his NSM Satellite 200 and how the former owner replaced a fuse after the smoke got out. Well Tom sent me the computer, power board, and amps. Everything is all fixed now. I have added several photos to photobucket showing the computer repair and recapping of the the power board and amps. http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg410/jearbear71/ Click "NSM Sat repair". I like to view them with slide show - paused then advance manually. I have added quite a bit of text to each photo. The main problem that caused it all was a diode on the power board - too small of a diode overheated too many times = direct short. And that circuit is not originally fused. On the computer - resistor R94, IC 22 (SN75468), and IC 11 (6532 RIOT) were faulty and repaced. Also one trace had to be jumpered with some wire. Enjoy the photos. Things turned out very well. Jeremy Agema From dave.halford at telent.com Tue Feb 24 00:34:08 2009 From: dave.halford at telent.com (dave.halford@telent.com) Date: Tue Feb 24 00:35:34 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E In-Reply-To: <001101c99617$3d1cc680$e0da4109@ZURNT60> Message-ID: <20090224083419.1020B2BEA71@blade205.la.inty.net> Or you'll end up like Ron ;O) regards Dave H "Jeff Zurn" To: , "Jukebox mailing list" Sent by: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n cc: etlojix.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E 24/02/2009 00:31 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list be sure to shove the plastic end! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E > Jay, and others, > This reminded me--If you do not have a stethoscope, a long "Phillips" > screw driver with a plastic handle-shoved into your ear, will also work to > pinpoint the noise-- Ron Rich > > --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: > > From: Jay Hennigan > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 3:57 PM > > Paul Taylor wrote: >> My AMI I-120E has the usual, acceptable slight hum when the amplifier is > switched in before playing a record. However, when the stylus touches down > on > the record, a secondary slightly more obtrusive hum can be heard. If I > lift the > pickup off the record this more pronounced hum disappears. It's not > turntable rumble as it is still present when the turntable is deactivated > but > with the stylus still resting on the record. I've tried running an earth > between the pickup etc but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how I > can get > rid of this secondary hum. I rebuilt the amp and the sound quality is > superb > otherwise. Thanks for any responses. > > If very slightly lifting the stylus just off of the surface of the record > makes > the hum go away, then it's a mechanical vibration being coupled to the > stylus. The most common cause is bad motor bearings or mounts. > > As you are still getting it with the turntable motor turned off (is this > what > you mean by "deactivated"?) I would look for another source of > vibration, perhaps a fluorescent ballast or solenoid could be the culprit. > > If you have a mechanic's stethoscope you might be able to narrow it down. > Otherwise try to isolate possible sources of vibration being coupled to > the > turntable platter. > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net > Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net From drjukebox at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 01:10:46 2009 From: drjukebox at gmail.com (Jens Hultgren) Date: Tue Feb 24 01:11:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Jukebox-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3154d3690902240110wdd07d91u7c474874d6f9ede3@mail.gmail.com> My house (in Sweden) had red ground wire before I replaced (most of it) I believe it was srandard up until the early sixties or so. Wonder how many were electrocuted because of this... Jens On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 11:21 AM, wrote: > In Germany all machines had a Red wire for the Ground or Earth as it is > known in the UK, Rock-ola had a factory in Germany and all the machines > that were > made there had this colour code. > > Tony Holmes > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From dave.halford at telent.com Tue Feb 24 01:24:36 2009 From: dave.halford at telent.com (dave.halford@telent.com) Date: Tue Feb 24 01:25:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: Jukebox-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: <3154d3690902240110wdd07d91u7c474874d6f9ede3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090224092433.4C8321ECFDA@blade104.la.inty.net> The UK just switched the live and neutral colours around on the 440v 3 phase wiring. We look upon it as a form of natural selection ;O) regards Dave H This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net From Alan-hood at datex.co.uk Tue Feb 24 01:48:00 2009 From: Alan-hood at datex.co.uk (Alan-hood@datex.co.uk) Date: Tue Feb 24 01:41:43 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: power cord colors Message-ID: <655B3C747F0C0641901676E8D84957A00128D2@NTPDC1> Hello, Norman and Oliver are correct with the red earth used in Germany in the late 60's. I installed a complete chipboard plant in the early 70's. All the control equipment and 3 phase motors had red earth cables, I seem to think that on single phase white was live and green was neutral. Regards Alan Hood Ami-man UK ____________________________________________________________________ DISCLAIMER The information and any attachment with this message is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please notify the sender and delete the message immediately. Unauthorised disclosure, distribution and copying of this email are strictly prohibited The opinions expressed within this message are those of the individual author. Whilst Datex Systems takes reasonable steps to scan this email it does not accept liability for any virus that may be contained in it. ____________________________________________________________________ From johndt3 at verizon.net Tue Feb 24 04:37:36 2009 From: johndt3 at verizon.net (JOHN TAYLOR) Date: Tue Feb 24 04:39:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors Message-ID: <49A3EA10.1000901@verizon.net> I'm replacing capacitors in one of the older jukebox amplifiers. Some of the electrolytic are not marked in ways that are familiar with. One axial Capacitor as the lead coming out of a red circle on the very end, the other lead is coming out of a black circle on the other end of the capacitor. I'm assuming that the red end of the capacitor is a positive lead, and the black end is a negative lead,-but, since I am assuming, I thought that I better check with someone to be sure. Can anyone help me with the identification of the polarity on the various older electrolytic capacitors? thank you John D. Taylor III From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 09:07:17 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 24 09:08:25 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E In-Reply-To: <20090224083419.1020B2BEA71@blade205.la.inty.net> Message-ID: <678830.33391.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dave, I have not, as of this date, "ended up" !? Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/24/09, dave.halford@telent.com wrote: From: dave.halford@telent.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 12:34 AM Or you'll end up like Ron ;O) regards Dave H "Jeff Zurn" To: , "Jukebox mailing list" Sent by: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n cc: etlojix.com Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E 24/02/2009 00:31 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list be sure to shove the plastic end! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E > Jay, and others, > This reminded me--If you do not have a stethoscope, a long "Phillips" > screw driver with a plastic handle-shoved into your ear, will also work to > pinpoint the noise-- Ron Rich > > --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: > > From: Jay Hennigan > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Secondary AC hum on AMI E-120E > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 3:57 PM > > Paul Taylor wrote: >> My AMI I-120E has the usual, acceptable slight hum when the amplifier is > switched in before playing a record. However, when the stylus touches down > on > the record, a secondary slightly more obtrusive hum can be heard. If I > lift the > pickup off the record this more pronounced hum disappears. It's not > turntable rumble as it is still present when the turntable is deactivated > but > with the stylus still resting on the record. I've tried running an earth > between the pickup etc but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how I > can get > rid of this secondary hum. I rebuilt the amp and the sound quality is > superb > otherwise. Thanks for any responses. > > If very slightly lifting the stylus just off of the surface of the record > makes > the hum go away, then it's a mechanical vibration being coupled to the > stylus. The most common cause is bad motor bearings or mounts. > > As you are still getting it with the turntable motor turned off (is this > what > you mean by "deactivated"?) I would look for another source of > vibration, perhaps a fluorescent ballast or solenoid could be the culprit. > > If you have a mechanic's stethoscope you might be able to narrow it down. > Otherwise try to isolate possible sources of vibration being coupled to > the > turntable platter. > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net > Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). 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Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 09:25:00 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 24 09:26:06 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors In-Reply-To: <49A3EA10.1000901@verizon.net> Message-ID: <195482.20333.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> John, I am only assuming also, but I believe?that your assumption is correct.Ron Rich? --- On Tue, 2/24/09, JOHN TAYLOR wrote: From: JOHN TAYLOR Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 4:37 AM I'm replacing capacitors in one of the older jukebox amplifiers. Some of the electrolytic are not marked in ways that are familiar with. One axial Capacitor as the lead coming out of a red circle on the very end, the other lead is coming out of a black circle on the other end of the capacitor. I'm assuming that the red end of the capacitor is a positive lead, and the black end is a negative lead,-but, since I am assuming, I thought that I better check with someone to be sure. Can anyone help me with the identification of the polarity on the various older electrolytic capacitors? thank you John D. Taylor III _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ginovandecauter at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 08:44:05 2009 From: ginovandecauter at gmail.com (Vande Cauter Gino) Date: Tue Feb 24 09:26:28 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Wurlitzer 1050 Mech cover !!! Message-ID: <002301c9969f$1bd61070$6401a8c0@GLENN> Hi all , is there somebody who has for sale a (Wurlitzer 1050) mech cover ??? If you don't and you know somebody who has , please let me know . In the link below you can see (in the red circle) 2 pics from the cover !!! http://s698.photobucket.com/albums/vv341/Wurlifan/ Thank you already . Best regards , Gino . From jay at west.net Tue Feb 24 11:13:18 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Tue Feb 24 11:14:23 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors In-Reply-To: <49A3EA10.1000901@verizon.net> References: <49A3EA10.1000901@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49A446CE.7010503@west.net> JOHN TAYLOR wrote: > I'm replacing capacitors in one of the older jukebox amplifiers. Some > of the electrolytic are not marked in ways that are familiar with. One > axial Capacitor as the lead coming out of a red circle on the very end, > the other lead is coming out of a black circle on the other end of the > capacitor. I'm assuming that the red end of the capacitor is a positive > lead, and the black end is a negative lead,-but, since I am assuming, I > thought that I better check with someone to be sure. Can anyone help me > with the identification of the polarity on the various older > electrolytic capacitors? That's correct. Another way to tell is to examine the construction of the wires as they enter the old capacitor. The positive end will be protruding from the center of an insulator and the negative end will be spot-welded to the aluminum case. In the old days, a (+) mark was prominent on the positive side, today's replacements typically have a stripe or arrow with (-) pointing to the negative side. Same rule on axial cases, the aluminum can is negative. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From deanmink2003 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 12:09:59 2009 From: deanmink2003 at yahoo.com (Dean Mi nk) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:11:05 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg restoration? Message-ID: <940568.93209.qm@web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Where can I find parts to restore my jukebox? I need stuff like decals, mirrors, foil, speaker grill parts, etc.. From jeffzurn at cox.net Tue Feb 24 12:24:13 2009 From: jeffzurn at cox.net (Jeff Zurn) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:25:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg restoration? References: <940568.93209.qm@web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c996bd$dba15ae0$62c24109@ZURNT60> In the US, try www.victoryglass.com or www.jukeboxusa.com Have fun! Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Mi nk" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:09 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg restoration? > Where can I find parts to restore my jukebox? > I need stuff like decals, mirrors, foil, speaker grill parts, etc.. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Tue Feb 24 12:29:06 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:30:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg restoration? In-Reply-To: <940568.93209.qm@web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <940568.93209.qm@web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dean, Seeburg made a LOT of different jukeboxes during their history. You have to tell the list what model you are working on. A great general parts supplier is http://www.victoryglass.com/ Also try : http://www.verntisdale.com/index.html And: http://www.jukeboxusa.com/ Good luck Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Dean Mi nk Sent: 2009, February, 24 3:10 PM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg restoration? Where can I find parts to restore my jukebox? I need stuff like decals, mirrors, foil, speaker grill parts, etc.. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From deanmink2003 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 12:31:07 2009 From: deanmink2003 at yahoo.com (Dean Mi nk) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:32:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg restoration? Message-ID: <996351.57595.qm@web38808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Awesome, I found everything I need! Thanks ? ? --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Jeff Zurn wrote: From: Jeff Zurn Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg restoration? To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 2:24 PM In the US, try www.victoryglass.com? or www.jukeboxusa.com Have fun! Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Mi nk" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:09 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg restoration? > Where can I find parts to restore my jukebox? > I need stuff like decals, mirrors, foil, speaker grill parts, etc.. > > >? ? ? _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From johndt3 at verizon.net Tue Feb 24 12:00:46 2009 From: johndt3 at verizon.net (John D. Taylor III) Date: Tue Feb 24 13:03:51 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors In-Reply-To: <195482.20333.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <195482.20333.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A451EE.7090408@verizon.net> Thanks Ron, do you know of any one, or a website that have the answer, so I will know for sure? John Ron Rich wrote: > John, > I am only assuming also, but I believe that your assumption is correct.Ron Rich > > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, JOHN TAYLOR wrote: > > From: JOHN TAYLOR > Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 4:37 AM > > I'm replacing capacitors in one of the older jukebox amplifiers. Some of > the electrolytic are not marked in ways that are familiar with. One axial > Capacitor as the lead coming out of a red circle on the very end, the other lead > is coming out of a black circle on the other end of the capacitor. I'm > assuming that the red end of the capacitor is a positive lead, and the black end > is a negative lead,-but, since I am assuming, I thought that I better check with > someone to be sure. Can anyone help me with the identification of the polarity > on the various older electrolytic capacitors? > > thank you > John D. Taylor III > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > From fordfalcon63 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 24 13:12:30 2009 From: fordfalcon63 at hotmail.com (Justin S.) Date: Tue Feb 24 13:19:50 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? Message-ID: Hi Dean, i was wondering when someone was going to chime in on this.... you said you're having these troubles in a seeburg B.... they never had AVC (unless installed as a later kit), so there are no squelch contacts on the mech. these contacts are closed in the play position to turn off the squelch. squelch holds the AVC while the record changes so it doesn't interpret the mute as a soft passage and turn the volume up. this is why the records usually start softly and come up to volume slowly in an amp with working AVC. the first machine with this feature was the 100C and your amp is from a C (MRA3); not correct for your machine. you should have a MRA1. your amp is constantly running the in the squelch position. you'll have put a jumper across the three prong socket to get the squelch to "turn off", pin three to ground...or better yet just leave out the 6SK7. it won't work right with your 100B anyhow... i would feel bad for your tech to get a perfectly good amp returned because someone got the amps mixed up. Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:26:13 GMT From: "James Alexander" Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: <20090223.192613.24580.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Dean: OK the test you ran by pulling the 6SK7 tube proves several things---- one, your amp does an automatic volume control function. two, You are having to use abnormally high vol control settings if your sound system sounds "thin" to your ear. three, Ron Rich, in this forum is advising you to send your amp back to the rebuilder-servicer for follow-up or warranty service. Possibly, you will wind up having to do this. You might be able to save yourself the trouble of removing and sending the amp back. The low-gain problem may be caused by a weak or failing tube in the audio signal chain. Put the 6SK7 tube back in it's socket. As it warms up, it will reduce the volume output of the amplifer. When a record is playing, at a moderate volume setting, try tapping on the other amplifier tubes with the eraser end of a pencil. If a tube is intermittent or microphonic, you'll either hear static/noise in the speaker and the signal volume might jump up and down. If this happens, replace that tube. If you have spare tubes on hand, you need to try replacing them by substitution one at a time. Pull tubes only when the amp is off or in the "at rest",position when no record is playing. It's best to change one tube at a time and try it. Depending upon your amp model, Tube types 5U4, 6L6 (there are 2 of these) or 6V6 (there are 4 of these) are less likely to affect audio gain, but all the others can make a difference. If changing the tubes this way doesn't improve the gain situation, or if you don't have any spares for testing, the amp should be sent back to the servicer. Jim Alexander _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009 From michael.dicecco at rbc.com Tue Feb 24 13:08:35 2009 From: michael.dicecco at rbc.com (Dicecco, Michael) Date: Tue Feb 24 13:23:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors In-Reply-To: <49A451EE.7090408@verizon.net> References: <195482.20333.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <49A451EE.7090408@verizon.net> Message-ID: Try this site out: http://www.antiqueradio.org/recap.htm Mike -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of John D. Taylor III Sent: 2009, February, 24 3:01 PM To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com; Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors Thanks Ron, do you know of any one, or a website that have the answer, so I will know for sure? John Ron Rich wrote: > John, > I am only assuming also, but I believe that your assumption is > correct.Ron Rich > > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, JOHN TAYLOR wrote: > > From: JOHN TAYLOR > Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 4:37 AM > > I'm replacing capacitors in one of the older jukebox amplifiers. Some > of the electrolytic are not marked in ways that are familiar with. > One axial Capacitor as the lead coming out of a red circle on the very > end, the other lead is coming out of a black circle on the other end > of the capacitor. I'm assuming that the red end of the capacitor is a > positive lead, and the black end is a negative lead,-but, since I am > assuming, I thought that I better check with someone to be sure. Can > anyone help me with the identification of the polarity on the various older electrolytic capacitors? > > thank you > John D. Taylor III > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier ?lectronique est confidentiel et prot?g?. L'exp?diteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) d?sign?(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier ?lectronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser imm?diatement, par retour de courrier ?lectronique ou par un autre moyen. From deanmink2003 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 13:47:11 2009 From: deanmink2003 at yahoo.com (Dean Mi nk) Date: Tue Feb 24 13:48:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? Message-ID: <649327.62484.qm@web38801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It seems to work perfectly with the 6SK7 tube removed but Jim mentioned that this should only be a temporary fix. Will it cause any damage to the amp if I leave it out? I rebuilt or "re-capped" the amp myself and it was working good but it seemed to me that it should be louder and should have more bass tone. Now with the tube removed, it has plenty of volume and lots of bass I just dont want to ruin it. What you are describing with the squelch always on, sounds like what this amp is doing. Thanks ? --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Justin S. wrote: From: Justin S. Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:12 PM Hi Dean, i was wondering when someone was going to chime in on this.... you said you're having these troubles in a seeburg B.... they never had AVC (unless installed as a later kit), so there are no squelch contacts on the mech. these contacts are closed in the play position to turn off the squelch. squelch holds the AVC while the record changes so it doesn't interpret the mute as a soft passage and turn the volume up. this is why the records usually start softly and come up to volume slowly in an amp with working AVC. the first machine with this feature was the 100C and your amp is from a C (MRA3); not correct for your machine. you should have a MRA1.? your amp is constantly running the in the squelch position. you'll have put a jumper across the three prong socket to get the squelch to "turn off", pin three to ground...or better yet just leave out the 6SK7. it won't work right with your 100B anyhow... i would feel bad for your tech to get a perfectly good amp returned because someone got the amps mixed up. Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:26:13 GMT From: "James Alexander" Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: <20090223.192613.24580.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Dean: OK the test you ran by pulling the 6SK7 tube proves several things---- one,? your amp does an automatic volume control function.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???two,???You are having to use abnormally high vol control settings if your sound system sounds "thin" to your ear.? three, Ron Rich, in this forum is advising you to send your amp back to the rebuilder-servicer for follow-up or warranty service. Possibly, you will wind up having to do this.? You might be able to save yourself the trouble of removing and sending the amp back.???The low-gain problem may be caused by a weak or failing tube in the audio signal chain.? Put the 6SK7 tube back in it's socket.? As it warms up, it will reduce the volume output of the amplifer.???When a record is playing, at a moderate volume setting, try tapping on the other amplifier tubes with the eraser end of a pencil.???If a tube is intermittent or microphonic, you'll either hear static/noise in the speaker and the signal volume might jump up and down. If this happens, replace that tube. ? If you have spare tubes on hand, you need to try replacing them by substitution one at a time.? Pull tubes only when the amp is off or in the "at rest",position when no record is playing.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???It's best to change one tube at a time and try it. Depending upon your amp model,? ???Tube types 5U4, 6L6 (there are 2 of these) or 6V6 (there are 4 of these) are less likely to affect audio gain, but all the others can make a difference. If changing the tubes this way doesn't improve the gain situation, or if you don't have any spares for testing, the amp should be sent back to the servicer. Jim Alexander _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 14:56:16 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 24 14:57:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <235473.62568.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Justin, Glad you caught the fact that he was operating it in a "B"--I missed that-- in which case it probably is operating as designed, and was correctly re-built.? Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Justin S. wrote: From: Justin S. Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 1:12 PM Hi Dean, i was wondering when someone was going to chime in on this.... you said you're having these troubles in a seeburg B.... they never had AVC (unless installed as a later kit), so there are no squelch contacts on the mech. these contacts are closed in the play position to turn off the squelch. squelch holds the AVC while the record changes so it doesn't interpret the mute as a soft passage and turn the volume up. this is why the records usually start softly and come up to volume slowly in an amp with working AVC. the first machine with this feature was the 100C and your amp is from a C (MRA3); not correct for your machine. you should have a MRA1. your amp is constantly running the in the squelch position. you'll have put a jumper across the three prong socket to get the squelch to "turn off", pin three to ground...or better yet just leave out the 6SK7. it won't work right with your 100B anyhow... i would feel bad for your tech to get a perfectly good amp returned because someone got the amps mixed up. Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:26:13 GMT From: "James Alexander" Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: <20090223.192613.24580.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Dean: OK the test you ran by pulling the 6SK7 tube proves several things---- one, your amp does an automatic volume control function. two, You are having to use abnormally high vol control settings if your sound system sounds "thin" to your ear. three, Ron Rich, in this forum is advising you to send your amp back to the rebuilder-servicer for follow-up or warranty service. Possibly, you will wind up having to do this. You might be able to save yourself the trouble of removing and sending the amp back. The low-gain problem may be caused by a weak or failing tube in the audio signal chain. Put the 6SK7 tube back in it's socket. As it warms up, it will reduce the volume output of the amplifer. When a record is playing, at a moderate volume setting, try tapping on the other amplifier tubes with the eraser end of a pencil. If a tube is intermittent or microphonic, you'll either hear static/noise in the speaker and the signal volume might jump up and down. If this happens, replace that tube. If you have spare tubes on hand, you need to try replacing them by substitution one at a time. Pull tubes only when the amp is off or in the "at rest",position when no record is playing. It's best to change one tube at a time and try it. Depending upon your amp model, Tube types 5U4, 6L6 (there are 2 of these) or 6V6 (there are 4 of these) are less likely to affect audio gain, but all the others can make a difference. If changing the tubes this way doesn't improve the gain situation, or if you don't have any spares for testing, the amp should be sent back to the servicer. Jim Alexander _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 14:58:11 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 24 14:59:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? In-Reply-To: <649327.62484.qm@web38801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <609326.87047.qm@web111316.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It will operate just fine with both the SK-7 and lower SL-7 removed--will do no harm. Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Dean Mi nk wrote: From: Dean Mi nk Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 1:47 PM It seems to work perfectly with the 6SK7 tube removed but Jim mentioned that this should only be a temporary fix. Will it cause any damage to the amp if I leave it out? I rebuilt or "re-capped" the amp myself and it was working good but it seemed to me that it should be louder and should have more bass tone. Now with the tube removed, it has plenty of volume and lots of bass I just dont want to ruin it. What you are describing with the squelch always on, sounds like what this amp is doing. Thanks ? --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Justin S. wrote: From: Justin S. Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:12 PM Hi Dean, i was wondering when someone was going to chime in on this.... you said you're having these troubles in a seeburg B.... they never had AVC (unless installed as a later kit), so there are no squelch contacts on the mech. these contacts are closed in the play position to turn off the squelch. squelch holds the AVC while the record changes so it doesn't interpret the mute as a soft passage and turn the volume up. this is why the records usually start softly and come up to volume slowly in an amp with working AVC. the first machine with this feature was the 100C and your amp is from a C (MRA3); not correct for your machine. you should have a MRA1.? your amp is constantly running the in the squelch position. you'll have put a jumper across the three prong socket to get the squelch to "turn off", pin three to ground...or better yet just leave out the 6SK7. it won't work right with your 100B anyhow... i would feel bad for your tech to get a perfectly good amp returned because someone got the amps mixed up. Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:26:13 GMT From: "James Alexander" Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] More volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Message-ID: <20090223.192613.24580.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Dean: OK the test you ran by pulling the 6SK7 tube proves several things---- one,? your amp does an automatic volume control function.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???two,???You are having to use abnormally high vol control settings if your sound system sounds "thin" to your ear.? three, Ron Rich, in this forum is advising you to send your amp back to the rebuilder-servicer for follow-up or warranty service. Possibly, you will wind up having to do this.? You might be able to save yourself the trouble of removing and sending the amp back.???The low-gain problem may be caused by a weak or failing tube in the audio signal chain.? Put the 6SK7 tube back in it's socket.? As it warms up, it will reduce the volume output of the amplifer.???When a record is playing, at a moderate volume setting, try tapping on the other amplifier tubes with the eraser end of a pencil.???If a tube is intermittent or microphonic, you'll either hear static/noise in the speaker and the signal volume might jump up and down. If this happens, replace that tube. ? If you have spare tubes on hand, you need to try replacing them by substitution one at a time.? Pull tubes only when the amp is off or in the "at rest",position when no record is playing.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???It's best to change one tube at a time and try it. Depending upon your amp model,? ???Tube types 5U4, 6L6 (there are 2 of these) or 6V6 (there are 4 of these) are less likely to affect audio gain, but all the others can make a difference. If changing the tubes this way doesn't improve the gain situation, or if you don't have any spares for testing, the amp should be sent back to the servicer. Jim Alexander _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dirksenj at bellsouth.net Tue Feb 24 15:14:20 2009 From: dirksenj at bellsouth.net (dirksenj@bellsouth.net) Date: Tue Feb 24 15:15:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors References: <49A3EA10.1000901@verizon.net> <49A446CE.7010503@west.net> Message-ID: <002b01c996d5$a02576a0$6101a8c0@Dirksen> You should check the diagram when in doubt. I once rebuilt an old amp that had been worked on before - I made the same error the previous owner did because I blindly followed what he did. Those electrolytics don't like to be connected backwards. Good luck, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hennigan" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors > JOHN TAYLOR wrote: >> I'm replacing capacitors in one of the older jukebox amplifiers. Some of >> the electrolytic are not marked in ways that are familiar with. One >> axial Capacitor as the lead coming out of a red circle on the very end, >> the other lead is coming out of a black circle on the other end of the >> capacitor. I'm assuming that the red end of the capacitor is a positive >> lead, and the black end is a negative lead,-but, since I am assuming, I >> thought that I better check with someone to be sure. Can anyone help me >> with the identification of the polarity on the various older electrolytic >> capacitors? > > That's correct. Another way to tell is to examine the construction of the > wires as they enter the old capacitor. The positive end will be > protruding from the center of an insulator and the negative end will be > spot-welded to the aluminum case. > > In the old days, a (+) mark was prominent on the positive side, today's > replacements typically have a stripe or arrow with (-) pointing to the > negative side. Same rule on axial cases, the aluminum can is negative. > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net > Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From pinball at telus.net Tue Feb 24 15:47:45 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Tue Feb 24 15:48:49 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] OT, holly crane manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49A48721.8000107@telus.net> Rick Force wrote: > Hi all, sorry this is off topic, please direct me to the right place if no-one here has this. I need a manual for the holly crane (low boy styl cabinet). Thank you, Rick. > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > I have a copy of the parts manual and schematics for the Holly Crane(Standard Model). John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From jwbuffalo at verizon.net Tue Feb 24 15:23:58 2009 From: jwbuffalo at verizon.net (jwbuffalo) Date: Tue Feb 24 16:26:22 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Jukebox & wallbox keys. Free key chart Message-ID: <001501c996d6$f880ad00$2f01a8c0@jackicnimh4vny> If you would like a free key chart listing what key a certain model Jukebox takes, email your name and address and I will send you one. Any key or lock questions please contact me. 716 694 3254 jwbuffalo@verizon.net Jack Prince From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 16:48:34 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Tue Feb 24 16:49:37 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors In-Reply-To: <002b01c996d5$a02576a0$6101a8c0@Dirksen> Message-ID: <889858.52989.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jim, You are mis-staken !!?? Caps LOVE to be connected backwards, but only?on the 4th of July (sorry Brits!).? Ron Rich --- On Tue, 2/24/09, dirksenj@bellsouth.net wrote: From: dirksenj@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:14 PM You should check the diagram when in doubt. I once rebuilt an old amp that had been worked on before - I made the same error the previous owner did because I blindly followed what he did. Those electrolytics don't like to be connected backwards. Good luck, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hennigan" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors > JOHN TAYLOR wrote: >> I'm replacing capacitors in one of the older jukebox amplifiers. Some of the electrolytic are not marked in ways that are familiar with. One axial Capacitor as the lead coming out of a red circle on the very end, the other lead is coming out of a black circle on the other end of the capacitor. I'm assuming that the red end of the capacitor is a positive lead, and the black end is a negative lead,-but, since I am assuming, I thought that I better check with someone to be sure. Can anyone help me with the identification of the polarity on the various older electrolytic capacitors? > > That's correct. Another way to tell is to examine the construction of the wires as they enter the old capacitor. The positive end will be protruding from the center of an insulator and the negative end will be spot-welded to the aluminum case. > > In the old days, a (+) mark was prominent on the positive side, today's replacements typically have a stripe or arrow with (-) pointing to the negative side. Same rule on axial cases, the aluminum can is negative. > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net > Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From 19k20 at comcast.net Wed Feb 25 05:26:39 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Wed Feb 25 05:33:50 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2800 turntable playing fast Message-ID: <002d01c9974c$b1636680$142a3380$@net> Seems like the turntable is playing a little fast. Can't find any adjustments in the 2800 manual. Any ideas? I have not replaced the turntable belts yet..might be the first step. As always...Thanks for the help. Rich From johndt3 at verizon.net Wed Feb 25 07:08:10 2009 From: johndt3 at verizon.net (JOHN TAYLOR) Date: Wed Feb 25 07:09:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] old amplifier capacitors In-Reply-To: <49A3EA10.1000901@verizon.net> References: <49A3EA10.1000901@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49A55EDA.1010209@verizon.net> Thanks for your help everyone.I tried everything that everyone has suggested, and I still can't find any markings on the capacitor, with the exception of the two rubber rings. The outside shell appears to be hard plastic and its nonconductive. The leads on both ends are up against the rivets and not the outside plastic case. The only thing that is different is it one of the rubber rings is red and the other is black. I have a schematic now, and on the schematic the black ring wire is going to ground, and the red ring wire is going to the cathode of a 12AX7,-so our original assumption must be correct that the black ring is the common indicator, and the red ring is a positive indicator. I have never seen this kind of capacitor before, so I guess I'll just have to keep that in mind. It appears that our original assumption was correct. I appreciate everyone's input, this is a great site with a lot of knowledgeable people, so I will probably be coming back often. John D. Taylor III JOHN TAYLOR wrote: > I'm replacing capacitors in one of the older jukebox amplifiers. Some > of the electrolytic are not marked in ways that are familiar with. > One axial Capacitor as the lead coming out of a red circle on the very > end, the other lead is coming out of a black circle on the other end > of the capacitor. I'm assuming that the red end of the capacitor is a > positive lead, and the black end is a negative lead,-but, since I am > assuming, I thought that I better check with someone to be sure. Can > anyone help me with the identification of the polarity on the various > older electrolytic capacitors? > > thank you > John D. Taylor III > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From fordfalcon63 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 25 08:03:11 2009 From: fordfalcon63 at hotmail.com (Justin S.) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:04:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? Message-ID: Hi Dean, do as Ron suggests and leave the 6SK7 out. It will not harm the amp. Also turn the AVC switch to position 4. seeburg added resistance in series with the signal line as you turned the AVC down. the kept the overall juke volume even. position 4 bridges this resistance for the highest level of signal fed to the output driver stage. since your 6SK7 is out of the socket, this will give you plenty of punch. Dean Mi nk deanmink2003 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 13:47:11 PST 2009 Previous message: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? Next message: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] It seems to work perfectly with the 6SK7 tube removed but Jim mentioned that this should only be a temporary fix. Will it cause any damage to the amp if I leave it out? I rebuilt or "re-capped" the amp myself and it was working good but it seemed to me that it should be louder and should have more bass tone. Now with the tube removed, it has plenty of volume and lots of bass I just dont want to ruin it. What you are describing with the squelch always on, sounds like what this amp is doing. Thanks _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Access_022009 From pinball at telus.net Wed Feb 25 08:08:03 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:09:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <002d01c9974c$b1636680$142a3380$@net> References: <002d01c9974c$b1636680$142a3380$@net> Message-ID: <49A56CE3.6070406@telus.net> Ssg Rich Myers wrote: > Seems like the turntable is playing a little fast. Can't find any > adjustments in the 2800 manual. Any ideas? I have not replaced the > turntable belts yet..might be the first step. > > > > As always...Thanks for the help. > > > > Rich > Hi Rich, There is no adjustment for speed as these use a synchronis motor and are locked to the 60Hz line frequency. Now if someone modified any pulleys (perhaps added tape if the old belt was slipping...) then the speed could be increased. You can check the speed of your turntable by printing out a 45RPM speed test disc then secure to a piece of cardboard and pop in place of a record... Here is a link showing some discussion on 45RPM discs and where to find some: http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13497&highlight=stroboscope John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From jalexandercc at netzero.net Wed Feb 25 08:51:49 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:55:58 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? Message-ID: <20090225.115149.25752.1@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Dean: I called the removing of the 6SK7 AVC tube a temporary fix because I assumed you'd want to have all the features/circuitry of your amp operational. It won't hurt anything to leave the AVC function disabled in your amp, if you're satisfied in doing this. The AVC circuit's function is to automatically regulate the loudness between loud and soft recordings in order to maintain a uniform listening volume, without manually adjusting the vol control. By dis-abling that function, it brings on line,fulltime, the 30 db or so of "reserve gain" used to boost the volume of soft recordings by the AVC system. Loud and soft records on your juke will now play that way. It is an indication that you have a gain loss somwehere in your amplifier if you are having to gradually boost the volume of your amp to a high setting with the AVC circuit working. Eventually you'll have to fix the problem at it's source. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYR2bmBmk72PIElrhIry5J9cVOiIjeEI2NZWY53WAz72ZXXVA1Dvuo/ From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 09:01:43 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:03:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? In-Reply-To: <20090225.115149.25752.1@webmail06.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <91656.15482.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jim, If as Justin pointed out, he is using the MRA-3 amp with a M100B, there were no provisions on the "B" for AVC. There? was a "kit" offered at a later date which converted the correct amp,?MRA-1, and the "B" mechanism to enable an AVC to operate.? AVC was original equipment from the "C" foward--- Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/25/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:51 AM Dean: I called the removing of the 6SK7 AVC tube a temporary fix because I assumed you'd want to have all the features/circuitry of your amp operational. It won't hurt anything to leave the AVC function disabled in your amp, if you're satisfied in doing this. The AVC circuit's function is to automatically regulate the loudness between loud and soft recordings in order to maintain a uniform listening volume, without manually adjusting the vol control. By dis-abling that function, it brings on line,fulltime, the 30 db or so of "reserve gain" used to boost the volume of soft recordings by the AVC system. Loud and soft records on your juke will now play that way. It is an indication that you have a gain loss somwehere in your amplifier if you are having to gradually boost the volume of your amp to a high setting with the AVC circuit working. Eventually you'll have to fix the problem at it's source. Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYR2bmBmk72PIElrhIry5J9cVOiIjeEI2NZWY53WAz72ZXXVA1Dvuo/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From deanmink2003 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 09:32:55 2009 From: deanmink2003 at yahoo.com (Dean Mi nk) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:34:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? Message-ID: <750862.63821.qm@web38803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ok, so my M100B mechanism doesnt have provisions to operate the amps AVC properly. Does this mean that even if the amp?and mechanism are?working perfectly, the AVC circuit wont operate correctly? I'm sorry for all the questions, I'm a novice and this is my first jukebox. I have noticed that since I pulled the tube some records are a bit quieter than others but nothing too drastic. All in all I am really happy with the sound now, even at low volume you can feel the bass and all my records I have loaded into it are from 1947 to 1959. So I would assume with a more modern 45 it?would have outstanding sound. Thanks again ? --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Ron Rich wrote: From: Ron Rich Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 11:01 AM Jim, If as Justin pointed out, he is using the MRA-3 amp with a M100B, there were no provisions on the "B" for AVC. There? was a "kit" offered at a later date which converted the correct amp,?MRA-1, and the "B" mechanism to enable an AVC to operate.? AVC was original equipment from the "C" foward--- Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/25/09, James Alexander wrote: From: James Alexander Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:51 AM Dean: I called the removing? of the 6SK7 AVC tube a temporary fix because I assumed you'd want to have all the features/circuitry of your amp operational.? ? It won't hurt anything to leave the AVC function disabled in your amp, if you're satisfied in doing this.? The AVC circuit's function is to automatically regulate the loudness between loud and soft recordings in order to maintain a uniform listening volume, without manually adjusting the vol control.? ? By dis-abling that function, it brings on line,fulltime,? the 30 db or so of "reserve gain" used to boost the volume of soft recordings by the AVC system.? Loud and soft records on your juke will now play that way. It is an indication that you have a gain loss somwehere in your amplifier if you are having to gradually boost the volume of your amp to a high setting? with the AVC circuit working.???Eventually you'll have to fix the problem at it's source.? ? Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYR2bmBmk72PIElrhIry5J9cVOiIjeEI2NZWY53WAz72ZXXVA1Dvuo/ _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From bmet09 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 20:59:56 2009 From: bmet09 at yahoo.com (Dick Habegger) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:53:55 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: w 2610 selector issue solved Message-ID: <664198.34781.qm@web111016.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Kyle, I agree with you! I worked for Hewlett-Packard and they had wash bins to "hose down" the equipment before it was worked on. Also, Tektronix would do the same thing with their oscilloscopes. All they did before the equipment was washed, was to cover any transformers, coils, or other parts that contained cardboard. The secret is in the TOTAL & COMPLETE drying. I have used the same practice in ICU medical equipment when someone spilled a milk shake into it. Common sense and patience is the secret. Rain warps wood, but we do not melt. Dick. Phelan, CA > My particular Wurlitzer... Stored in a carport and God knows where else for 20+ years without a back door. > Hosed the whole thing out, selector and all.? Dried with a fan for 2 days (and usually wait 5 more - weekend to weekend), lubed what needed lube and it came right back to life. > > I know many people are freaked out when I douse electrical machinery with water, but nothing like starting with clean stuff and no better way to get it reasonably clean without taking it out and taking it apart. 20+ jukeboxes later, never had an issue from one of my hose downs. > Just be sure everything's thoroughly dry. > > Nothing worse than trying to fiddle with a grungy jukebox. > > Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco > From chris.williams at cogeco.ca Sun Feb 22 13:53:32 2009 From: chris.williams at cogeco.ca (Chris Williams) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:54:17 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMi E cabinet finish In-Reply-To: 20061109000024.77575.qmail@web50310.mail.yahoo.com Message-ID: <19CD18472420447D98FA5E937171DC59@ChrisPC> Hi Just taking a shot here. I know this thread is like 3 years old, but I figured I'd try. I have a Wurlitzer 1700HF that has been 'restored'. There is remnants of the original cabinet finish under some trim that looks like a thin light blue plastic with gold specks. Its stapled under the trim. Would you have a pic of the 1700 finish? Thanks very much Chris From chuck at thevideobeat.com Sat Feb 21 15:19:07 2009 From: chuck at thevideobeat.com (chuck@thevideobeat.com) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:54:48 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Hello and education needed re: Pickering 345-03D + Resistor for a 100C Message-ID: Hi, This my first post. I've never owned a jukebox. I've recently put a down payment on a Grade-A restoration Seeburg 100C. I won't be receiving the box until September '09. (They're working on a few ahead of mine). I initially only focused on style, looks, mint condition, etc. Now, while waiting for the box, I've been reading on the internet about an issue I hadn't considered. I will be playing original 50s & 60s 45s - some that are worth a bit of moolah - and I don't want to damage them. I am told my box will come with a RED HEAD cartridge. I've been reading about a Pickering 345-03D cartridge which is supposed to be: 1) kinder to records and 2) sound a lot better. I'd like the best sound I can get (I selected the 100C to fit decoratively in my living room - I realize the 100R sounds better but it's too much chrome for our living room). I've read that a new/different resistor is needed to help with loss of volume and bass if a Pickering 345-03D cartridge in substituted for a Redhead. I think I also read about having to special wire the cartridge? To get to my question: Is there an existing discussion that someone can point me to where all the issues are laid out regarding the "whats, whys, wheres and how tos" of swapping out a Redhead and replacing with a 345-03D? I can't do the work myself, but I'd like to be able to intelligently direct the person who will be restoring my 100C. I may have to purchase the Pickering, needles, resistor, etc. and give to him along with instructions. Is this information available? Thank you very much for reading my long post and hopefully providing an answer. Chuck New Paltz, NY P.S. If there are any other tips regarding gentle play on rare records and achieving the cleanest and highest definition sound possible on a 100C, please feel free to share this information. I will be most grateful. I'm positive this will be the only jukebox I ever own and I want it to be absolutely perfect. -Thanks again. From gibson510 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 25 11:02:29 2009 From: gibson510 at hotmail.com (rick murray) Date: Wed Feb 25 11:03:34 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for Ron Message-ID: Followed your instructions and cleaned all the connector traces on ALL the PCB's. This machine was definitely in a bar, Nicotine coating on everything. Tried selecting #155, accepts digits but mech does not start. Regards, Rick Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:01:31 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Rich Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron To: Jukebox mailing list Message-ID: <530029.62626.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Rick, Ok,I'll try-- First of all, with the power OFF, examine ALL the plugs on the DES, DTP, DCC (including the 311134 interface PCB), and the DRD. Look for a pin that's bent"down" (or "low"). What "dash" (-?) number is the interface PCB ?--and look for a ("leg")? twisted transistor on that board. You might want to clean the contact "pad" on? all the PCB's involved -- use a "plastic safe" non-residue (leaving) type "safety solvent". After doing that try it again--if the symptoms are still the same, try selecting # 155 and let me know what happens-- Ron _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009 From jeffzurn at cox.net Wed Feb 25 12:49:37 2009 From: jeffzurn at cox.net (Jeff Zurn) Date: Wed Feb 25 12:50:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Hello and education needed re: Pickering 345-03D +Resistor for a 100C References: Message-ID: <001b01c9978a$928c7790$99313209@ZURNT60> Chuck, I'll share my humble opinion... Keep your original 45s safely tucked away. Invest in reproductions of your original recordings where you can and substitute others where you can't. You can find reproduction sets of 25 records (50 songs) at www.victoryglass.com They even have the contents listed on their site. $99 for 25 + S&H. Like I said... just my humble opinion. Jeff Zurn Arizona Jukebox Company ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Hello and education needed re: Pickering 345-03D +Resistor for a 100C > Hi, > > > > This my first post. I've never owned a jukebox. I've recently put a down > payment on a > Grade-A restoration Seeburg 100C. I won't be receiving the box until > September '09. > (They're working on a few ahead of mine). I initially only focused on > style, looks, mint > condition, etc. > > > > Now, while waiting for the box, I've been reading on the internet about an > issue I hadn't > considered. > > > > I will be playing original 50s & 60s 45s - some that are worth a bit of > moolah - and I > don't want to damage them. I am told my box will come with a RED HEAD > cartridge. I've > been reading about a Pickering 345-03D cartridge which is supposed to be: > 1) kinder to > records and 2) sound a lot better. > > > > I'd like the best sound I can get (I selected the 100C to fit decoratively > in my living > room - I realize the 100R sounds better but it's too much chrome for our > living room). > > > > I've read that a new/different resistor is needed to help with loss of > volume and bass if > a Pickering 345-03D cartridge in substituted for a Redhead. I think I > also read about > having to special wire the cartridge? > > > > To get to my question: Is there an existing discussion that someone can > point me to where > all the issues are laid out regarding the "whats, whys, wheres and how > tos" of swapping > out a Redhead and replacing with a 345-03D? > > > > I can't do the work myself, but I'd like to be able to intelligently > direct the person who > will be restoring my 100C. I may have to purchase the Pickering, needles, > resistor, etc. > and give to him along with instructions. > > > > Is this information available? > > > > Thank you very much for reading my long post and hopefully providing an > answer. > > > > Chuck > > New Paltz, NY > > > > P.S. If there are any other tips regarding gentle play on rare records > and achieving the > cleanest and highest definition sound possible on a 100C, please feel free > to share this > information. I will be most grateful. I'm positive this will be the only > jukebox I ever > own and I want it to be absolutely perfect. -Thanks again. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From fordfalcon63 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 25 13:26:37 2009 From: fordfalcon63 at hotmail.com (Justin S.) Date: Wed Feb 25 13:28:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass continued... Message-ID: Hi Dean, yes as it stands, AVC will not work properly on your machine. PERIOD. you have the wrong amp for your juke. unless you modify the mech and add contacts, you should just leave out the 6SK7. you could put a jumper in the 3-prong plug from the mech - pin 3 to ground. the avc will work but it will turn up the volume really loud between songs until the first few seconds of the record starts. pretty annoying, but it would keep the rest of the records sounding about the same. Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:32:55 -0800 (PST) From: Dean Mi nk Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, Jukebox mailing list Message-ID: <750862.63821.qm@web38803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Ok, so my M100B mechanism doesnt have provisions to operate the amps AVC properly. Does this mean that even if the amp and mechanism are working perfectly, the AVC circuit wont operate correctly? I'm sorry for all the questions, I'm a novice and this is my first jukebox. I have noticed that since I pulled the tube some records are a bit quieter than others but nothing too drastic. All in all I am really happy with the sound now, even at low volume you can feel the bass and all my records I have loaded into it are from 1947 to 1959. So I would assume with a more modern 45 it would have outstanding sound. Thanks again --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Ron Rich wrote: From: Ron Rich Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 11:01 AM Jim, If as Justin pointed out, he is using the MRA-3 amp with a M100B, there were no provisions on the "B" for AVC. There was a "kit" offered at a later date which converted the correct amp, MRA-1, and the "B" mechanism to enable an AVC to operate. AVC was original equipment from the "C" foward--- Ron Rich _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Access_022009 From jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk Wed Feb 25 14:25:09 2009 From: jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk (Juke of Shrewsbury) Date: Wed Feb 25 14:26:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing Message-ID: <88A24B16B0414323816A2A72BB29A3F2@JUKEBUS> Can anyone familiar with the AMI A (Mother of Plastic) tell me what is supposed to be behind the "Record Playing" lens on the right hand side of the button bank? I'm restoring one now and there nothing there, not even any evidence of anything having been there! Thanks, Adrian. From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 15:04:41 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 25 15:05:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for Ron In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <166217.11181.qm@web111304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rick OK--is the single wire in the DRD plug connected--is the service switch in the "select" position? If both are ok, scan the phono by using the service switch, and see if it selects anything-- Ron --- On Wed, 2/25/09, rick murray wrote: From: rick murray Subject: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for Ron To: "jukebox list" Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 11:02 AM Followed your instructions and cleaned all the connector traces on ALL the PCB's. This machine was definitely in a bar, Nicotine coating on everything. Tried selecting #155, accepts digits but mech does not start. Regards, Rick Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:01:31 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Rich Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] usc2 selector question for ron To: Jukebox mailing list Message-ID: <530029.62626.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Rick, Ok,I'll try-- First of all, with the power OFF, examine ALL the plugs on the DES, DTP, DCC (including the 311134 interface PCB), and the DRD. Look for a pin that's bent"down" (or "low"). What "dash" (-?) number is the interface PCB ?--and look for a ("leg")? twisted transistor on that board. You might want to clean the contact "pad" on? all the PCB's involved -- use a "plastic safe" non-residue (leaving) type "safety solvent". After doing that try it again--if the symptoms are still the same, try selecting # 155 and let me know what happens-- Ron _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 15:15:22 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 25 15:17:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing In-Reply-To: <88A24B16B0414323816A2A72BB29A3F2@JUKEBUS> Message-ID: <854752.49851.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Adrian, A large wheel (8-10 inch diam.)?with the "selection now playing numbers" on it--If I remember right, it was chain driven off the mechanism--some how.. Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Juke of Shrewsbury wrote: From: Juke of Shrewsbury Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 2:25 PM Can anyone familiar with the AMI A (Mother of Plastic) tell me what is supposed to be behind the "Record Playing" lens on the right hand side of the button bank? I'm restoring one now and there nothing there, not even any evidence of anything having been there! Thanks, Adrian. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From drjukebox at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 16:03:21 2009 From: drjukebox at gmail.com (Jens Hultgren) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:04:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing In-Reply-To: <854752.49851.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <88A24B16B0414323816A2A72BB29A3F2@JUKEBUS> <854752.49851.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3154d3690902251603h609e8522ue1024967a6a0b291@mail.gmail.com> Yep, and it is missing more often than not.Perhaps it was "special order" Jens On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Ron Rich wrote: > Adrian, > A large wheel (8-10 inch diam.) with the "selection now playing numbers" on > it--If I remember right, it was chain driven off the mechanism--some how.. > Ron Rich > > --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Juke of Shrewsbury > wrote: > > From: Juke of Shrewsbury > Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 2:25 PM > > Can anyone familiar with the AMI A (Mother of Plastic) tell me what is > supposed > to be behind the "Record Playing" lens on the right hand side of the > button bank? I'm restoring one now and there nothing there, not even any > evidence of anything having been there! > > Thanks, > > Adrian. > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From david_breneman at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 16:14:10 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:15:12 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing In-Reply-To: <88A24B16B0414323816A2A72BB29A3F2@JUKEBUS> Message-ID: <601412.38278.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Juke of Shrewsbury wrote: > Can anyone familiar with the AMI A (Mother of Plastic) tell > me what is supposed to be behind the "Record > Playing" lens on the right hand side of the button > bank? I'm restoring one now and there nothing there, > not even any evidence of anything having been there! Like Ron already said, there is a vertically mounted wheel (actually a very narrow cylinder) mounted behind the lens, with the selection numbers on (I assume) a printed strip applied to its circumference. Mine has the wheel, but whatever numbers were on its surface have been removed. The wheel also has a smaller cog wheel attached to it over which some kind of lock link or roller chain passes, down to turn a drive shaft that runs across the front of the mechanism, which in turn attaches with a slip-on coupling to the shaft of the record rack motor (the stub on the opposite side of the gear case from the record rack drive chain cog wheel). This is the way it was described to me several years ago. I've never seen the complete assembly. This must have been a very popular feature with operators. :-) I'd imagine that since it slips on to the motor shaft, it easily got knocked out of sync with the record rack. From bobe at halted.com Wed Feb 25 16:02:42 2009 From: bobe at halted.com (Bob Ellingson) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:15:43 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing Message-ID: <2.2.32.20090226000242.0099462c@hsces.com> At 01:03 AM 2/26/2009 +0100, you wrote: >Yep, and it is missing more often than not.Perhaps it was "special order" > I seem to remember Dr. Know-it-all writing about this a while back, but I can't remember if it was the "now playing" indicator, or a popularity meter. I think he said it was often missing (or, as you suspect, optional), he was surprised to have one in a machine that he was working on. Now I'll have to go look for that issue of Always Jukin'... --Bob ======================================================================= Bob Ellingson bobe@halted.com Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) From david_breneman at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 16:23:23 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:24:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing In-Reply-To: <601412.38278.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <987542.64962.qm@web42106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey, here's a picture that shows it (just barely) on the pinballrebel.com web site: http://www.pinballrebel.com/archive/ami/a/amia_b.jpg You can see the bottom of the wheel on its bracket at the upper right. Between the wheel and the row of selector buttons in the chain running down to the drive shaft. The drive shaft disappears behind the turntable motor, reappears to its right and disappears again behind the transfer arm motor. Looks like the numbers have been removed from that wheel, too. David Breneman david_breneman@yahoo.com From jalexandercc at netzero.net Wed Feb 25 16:36:57 2009 From: jalexandercc at netzero.net (James Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:39:35 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass? Message-ID: <20090225.193657.11927.0@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> Hello Dean and anyone else interested: RE: Seeburg M-100B amplifier more volume and bass response I'm sorry that this discussion thread unleashed so much tech-y information that it's probably a little confusing. Here's a quick re-cap. Hope this clears it up. The original amplifier used with the Seeburg M100B is called an MRA1-L6 or MRA2-L6. This number is stamped on the blue nameplate on the amp. chassis. This amp was not equipped with the auto. volume control circuit, which is a highly desirable feature for a juke in commercial settings. The AVC was a brand-new invention circa 1952. The '52 Seeburg M100C model's amp was the first one equipped with that feature, going forward. Many surviving Seeburg B's have had one of the later model amps transplanted into it in order to have the AVC feature. Obviously, you've got one of these transplant models that has a later amp. In order to keep my email suggestions brief, I told you to look for and remove the 6SK7 tube, which you did. If you had an original MRA1 amp, there would be no 6SK7 tube there,and you would've questioned it. If you're happy with the performance of your juke's sound system with the 6SK7 removed, leave it that way---it won't hurt anything. But---there is a defect somewhere causing a gain loss in your amp. It will grow worse, either very gradually or quickly, and you'll have to fix it. If you had the amp professionally rebuilt recently, you may have a warranty repair solution available to you. The gradual loss of volume could also be due to a tube going weak. Just trying to give you a full view of what you could do... Hope this helps, Jim Alexander ____________________________________________________________ You will believe your eyes! Click here for great whale watching packages! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYXA9EVZnWuktVFSUEQSwchKX6gWjzLfwWSyckZALPZGIwv3xHlcEw/ From bryanlshaw at hotmail.com Wed Feb 25 17:02:57 2009 From: bryanlshaw at hotmail.com (Bryan Shaw) Date: Wed Feb 25 17:03:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f120 free play Message-ID: Hi all, I am looking for a safe method to set my ami f120 for free play. thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009 From amej at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 22 22:40:40 2009 From: amej at ix.netcom.com (Dick Habegger) Date: Wed Feb 25 17:05:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: w 2610 selector issue solved Message-ID: <49A244E8.1040208@ix.netcom.com> Hi Kyle, I agree with you! I worked for Hewlett-Packard and they had wash bins to "hose down" the equipment before it was worked on. Also, Tektronix would do the same thing with their oscilloscopes. All they did before the equipment was washed, was to cover any transformers, coils, or other parts that contained cardboard. The secret is in the TOTAL & COMPLETE drying. I have used the same practice in ICU medical equipment when someone spilled a milk shake into it. Common sense and patience is the secret. Rain warps wood, but we do not melt. Dick. Phelan, CA > My particular Wurlitzer... Stored in a carport and God knows where else for 20+ years without a back door. > Hosed the whole thing out, selector and all. Dried with a fan for 2 days (and usually wait 5 more - weekend to weekend), lubed what needed lube and it came right back to life. > > I know many people are freaked out when I douse electrical machinery with water, but nothing like starting with clean stuff and no better way to get it reasonably clean without taking it out and taking it apart. 20+ jukeboxes later, never had an issue from one of my hose downs. > Just be sure everything's thoroughly dry. > > Nothing worse than trying to fiddle with a grungy jukebox. > > Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco > From johntrav at suddenlink.net Wed Feb 25 17:14:15 2009 From: johntrav at suddenlink.net (John Travelletti) Date: Wed Feb 25 17:15:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe MM-6 selection problem Message-ID: <4EDA36500ECF4DDF891BC77E0E318F04@JOHNTRAV> I just finished reassembling this juke and have a problem I've not seen before. When I make any selection, the search unit spins, sets the correct pin, but keeps on running. I've checked all the settings on the search unit and they seem to be within spec, ditto with the stop switch assembly. Selection assembly switches and relays have been cleaned and relays checked for proper contact adjustments. Plugs and cables have been checked for broken wires and plug pins that may have backed out of their sockets. I'm stumped at this point. Any suggestions? From fordfalcon63 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 25 17:35:57 2009 From: fordfalcon63 at hotmail.com (Justin S.) Date: Wed Feb 25 17:36:59 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass Message-ID: Hi Jim, just to be clear on this. His loss of gain is due to the AVC squelch circuit being constantly energized. Squelch turns down the gain during the quiet passages between records. Because he has no contacts on the mech to close in the play position and turn off the squelch it is constantly holding down his gain. Why do you feel there is still a problem? I want to make sure I'm not missing something, but i think you might be confused as to how the AVC circuit is wired. Remember there are no contacts on the mech for AVC to work on a B; you can't "sub in" an amp to add AVC. This feature is not self-contained on the amp chassis alone, there are mandatory contacts on the mech to make this feature function that simply are not on the B mechanism. It just won't work; so there is no real "AVC" benefit to have an MRA3 as you suggested. As an aside, the operators really could care less about AVC in the day. They wanted working machines that would generate revenue. When the amp failed in that B they probably grabbed whatever amp would fit. Their techs knew about the swap issue and probably left out the 6SK7. Some well meaning person put the tube back in at a later time and created his problem. I'll bet before he started on the amp that tube may already have been removed. Most operators honestly thought AVC was a waste of tubes. This is first hand info. There were many complaints about it early on. James Alexander jalexandercc at netzero.net Wed Feb 25 16:36:57 PST 2009 Previous message: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing Next message: [Jukebox-list] f120 free play Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello Dean and anyone else interested: RE: Seeburg M-100B amplifier more volume and bass response I'm sorry that this discussion thread unleashed so much tech-y information that it's probably a little confusing. Here's a quick re-cap. Hope this clears it up. The original amplifier used with the Seeburg M100B is called an MRA1-L6 or MRA2-L6. This number is stamped on the blue nameplate on the amp. chassis. This amp was not equipped with the auto. volume control circuit, which is a highly desirable feature for a juke in commercial settings. The AVC was a brand-new invention circa 1952. The '52 Seeburg M100C model's amp was the first one equipped with that feature, going forward. Many surviving Seeburg B's have had one of the later model amps transplanted into it in order to have the AVC feature. Obviously, you've got one of these transplant models that has a later amp. In order to keep my email suggestions brief, I told you to look for and remove the 6SK7 tube, which you did. If you had an original MRA1 amp, there would be no 6SK7 tube there,and you would've questioned it. If you're happy with the performance of your juke's sound system with the 6SK7 removed, leave it that way---it won't hurt anything. But---there is a defect somewhere causing a gain loss in your amp. It will grow worse, either very gradually or quickly, and you'll have to fix it. If you had the amp professionally rebuilt recently, you may have a warranty repair solution available to you. The gradual loss of volume could also be due to a tube going weak. Just trying to give you a full view of what you could do... Hope this helps, Jim Alexander _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Access_022009 From jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 17:45:52 2009 From: jukejohn2000 at yahoo.com (John) Date: Wed Feb 25 17:46:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Rowe MM-6 Message-ID: <342719.7541.qm@web53111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I would check the relay and/or the wiper on the search unit. John the Jukebox Man From steve at pro-ns.net Wed Feb 25 18:57:52 2009 From: steve at pro-ns.net (Steve Wahl) Date: Wed Feb 25 18:58:53 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f120 free play In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090226025752.GQ3218@pro-ns.net> Bryan, My F120 has the spring that returns the credit unit ratchet wheel disconnected, so the credits never successfully subtract. This leaves the select light on all the time, and power (mostly for that light, as I recall) goes through a power resistor somewhere that gets quite warm. In other words, you can do this quite safely if you're not the type to leave 50+ year old machines on unattended. I wouldn't do that anyway. But there is a small chance that resistor could catch fire; substituting a "select" bulb that draws much less current could help that -- or removing it completely, if you don't care if it's present. Oh, and I use an external switch (e.g. the switch on a power strip) to shut off the power. If you use the power switch on the jukebox, and haven't rewired things, the selection circuits in these AMIs stay powered, they aren't switched by the power switch. This means the select light and that resistor stay lit & heated, which is probably NOT what you'd want! (The possible reasons for the selection circuitry being powered all the time have been discussed on this list before, check the archives if you care; I don't care to take time to describe all the possibilities at the moment.) --> Steve On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 07:02:57PM -0600, Bryan Shaw wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am looking for a safe method to set my ami f120 for free play. > > thank you > > Bryan > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009_______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -- Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net "'No Child Left Behind' -- Think about those words for a second. How else do you not leave a child behind unless you hold everyone else back with him?" -- Someone named "Geoffrey" on Slashdot From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 20:26:03 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Wed Feb 25 20:27:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <980618.38481.qm@web111306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Justin, I'm not so sure what the AVC value was?to operators "of the day"--but Seebug sold a whole lot of "update kits" that added the required switch and an AVC circuit to both the A and B model phono's equipped with a MRA-1, or 2 amp. The early version was not worth much, but the later production (above about?SN 14k, I think,) did a fairly good job.??Also,? AMi had an "optional" AVC unit that I believe would?retrofit back several models. Ron Rich --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Justin S. wrote: From: Justin S. Subject: [Jukebox-list] more volume and bass To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 5:35 PM Hi Jim, just to be clear on this. His loss of gain is due to the AVC squelch circuit being constantly energized. Squelch turns down the gain during the quiet passages between records. Because he has no contacts on the mech to close in the play position and turn off the squelch it is constantly holding down his gain. Why do you feel there is still a problem? I want to make sure I'm not missing something, but i think you might be confused as to how the AVC circuit is wired. Remember there are no contacts on the mech for AVC to work on a B; you can't "sub in" an amp to add AVC. This feature is not self-contained on the amp chassis alone, there are mandatory contacts on the mech to make this feature function that simply are not on the B mechanism. It just won't work; so there is no real "AVC" benefit to have an MRA3 as you suggested. As an aside, the operators really could care less about AVC in the day. They wanted working machines that would generate revenue. When the amp failed in that B they probably grabbed whatever amp would fit. Their techs knew about the swap issue and probably left out the 6SK7. Some well meaning person put the tube back in at a later time and created his problem. I'll bet before he started on the amp that tube may already have been removed. Most operators honestly thought AVC was a waste of tubes. This is first hand info. There were many complaints about it early on. James Alexander jalexandercc at netzero.net Wed Feb 25 16:36:57 PST 2009 Previous message: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing Next message: [Jukebox-list] f120 free play Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello Dean and anyone else interested: RE: Seeburg M-100B amplifier more volume and bass response I'm sorry that this discussion thread unleashed so much tech-y information that it's probably a little confusing. Here's a quick re-cap. Hope this clears it up. The original amplifier used with the Seeburg M100B is called an MRA1-L6 or MRA2-L6. This number is stamped on the blue nameplate on the amp. chassis. This amp was not equipped with the auto. volume control circuit, which is a highly desirable feature for a juke in commercial settings. The AVC was a brand-new invention circa 1952. The '52 Seeburg M100C model's amp was the first one equipped with that feature, going forward. Many surviving Seeburg B's have had one of the later model amps transplanted into it in order to have the AVC feature. Obviously, you've got one of these transplant models that has a later amp. In order to keep my email suggestions brief, I told you to look for and remove the 6SK7 tube, which you did. If you had an original MRA1 amp, there would be no 6SK7 tube there,and you would've questioned it. If you're happy with the performance of your juke's sound system with the 6SK7 removed, leave it that way---it won't hurt anything. But---there is a defect somewhere causing a gain loss in your amp. It will grow worse, either very gradually or quickly, and you'll have to fix it. If you had the amp professionally rebuilt recently, you may have a warranty repair solution available to you. The gradual loss of volume could also be due to a tube going weak. Just trying to give you a full view of what you could do... Hope this helps, Jim Alexander _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Access_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From gazzyoung_uk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 26 01:59:04 2009 From: gazzyoung_uk at yahoo.co.uk (Gary Young) Date: Thu Feb 26 02:00:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Cadillac Records review Message-ID: <173265.61212.qm@web23208.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi folks, sorry this maybe slightly off subject, but there is bit of a jukebox connection. I would highly recommend going to see the recently released movie Cadillac Records. I kind of potted history of Chess Records. Although not entirely accurate in some respects, the music and portrayal of the era are just spellbinding. The performers are relatively unknown, with the exception of Beyonce who gives a stunning performance as Etta james. My enjoyment was capped by two of my all time favourite songs, Id Rather Go Blind by Etta James and Smoke Stack Lightnin by Howlin Wolf. If you are at all interested in music history and particularly Blues, R&B and early Rock n Roll, go see this film or track it down on DVD when it is released. I dont think you will be dissapointed. Gary From tommoran13 at comcast.net Thu Feb 26 06:32:04 2009 From: tommoran13 at comcast.net (Thomas Moran) Date: Thu Feb 26 06:41:11 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing In-Reply-To: <88A24B16B0414323816A2A72BB29A3F2@JUKEBUS> References: <88A24B16B0414323816A2A72BB29A3F2@JUKEBUS> Message-ID: <2E1CB950-D58B-4EDA-9C50-F5AF01D0CC05@comcast.net> Hi Adrian, I also have an AMI A that I have been slowly restoring, mine is also missing the "record playing indicator. I have a couple of nice photos of the actual part you are describing that I saved to my computer from an ebay auction. What would be the best way to post these? I would also be interested in some photos of yours during/after restoration. Tom. On Feb 25, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Juke of Shrewsbury wrote: > Can anyone familiar with the AMI A (Mother of Plastic) tell me what > is supposed to be behind the "Record Playing" lens on the right hand > side of the button bank? I'm restoring one now and there nothing > there, not even any evidence of anything having been there! > > Thanks, > > Adrian. > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From Homer87015 at aol.com Thu Feb 26 08:08:12 2009 From: Homer87015 at aol.com (Homer87015@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 26 08:15:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMi E cabinet finish Message-ID: Hi, No decent pictures-only a small one of a flyer for the new 1700hf and it`s "catchphrase" Gee-Dad .It`s a Wurlitzer. Though apparently " The cabinet was basically very much the same as the 1600....lack of innovation hardly mattered....important thing was the new mechanism."...so maybe the same material finishes ? Good Luck, Nige. From etreble7 at verizon.net Thu Feb 26 08:16:18 2009 From: etreble7 at verizon.net (etreble7) Date: Thu Feb 26 08:17:47 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Cadillac Records review References: <173265.61212.qm@web23208.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Gary, I saw that was coming out and won't miss it!!! Jackie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Young" To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:59 AM Subject: [Jukebox-list] Cadillac Records review Hi folks, sorry this maybe slightly off subject, but there is bit of a jukebox connection. I would highly recommend going to see the recently released movie Cadillac Records. I kind of potted history of Chess Records. Although not entirely accurate in some respects, the music and portrayal of the era are just spellbinding. The performers are relatively unknown, with the exception of Beyonce who gives a stunning performance as Etta james. My enjoyment was capped by two of my all time favourite songs, Id Rather Go Blind by Etta James and Smoke Stack Lightnin by Howlin Wolf. If you are at all interested in music history and particularly Blues, R&B and early Rock n Roll, go see this film or track it down on DVD when it is released. I dont think you will be dissapointed. Gary _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Thu Feb 26 09:26:15 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:27:21 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: f 120 selector problem Message-ID: Pin needed to be forced down because the mech was bashed up against it? Sounds like it's obviously not tripping the mech to stop and play the record. It may only be 'stopping' there because it can't go any further. Familiarize yourself with the sequence of events that's supposed to happen. Mech moves, pin trips switch to stop mechanism. Once again, the mech is stopped via a quick reverse pulse to the motor, not by jamming against the pin - this may be why (you may think) your alignment is off, because the mech isn't stopping on it's own. It's getting hung up on the pin. Also, separate your problems. Your one pinbank working the mech/the other not issue probably isn't related to your mech not stopping issue. That's probably a bad/dirty switch or a bad wire to one pinbank. If I think about it, I'll try to dig out my G-120 manual and see if I can offer any more advice. I can't seem to find it off the top of my head. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Discover 10 secrets about the new Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!7540.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_ugc_post_022009 From mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com Thu Feb 26 09:39:38 2009 From: mechanicalmusic at hotmail.com (Mechanical Music of S.F.) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:40:44 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Message-ID: Hi. Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been installed. That's also a possibility. (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. Not familiar with where you're located. What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, but thought it was worth asking. Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did you recently tune this machine up? I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing too fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were right on. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009 From aaron at vertasource.com Thu Feb 26 10:26:22 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Thu Feb 26 10:22:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f120 free play Message-ID: <200902261326590.SM00628@[192.168.1.206]> Bryan, Rather than messing with the credit unit (since I have a real fear of the resistor burning up that controls the current to the "Select" light), I made a small modification to the jukebox itself. :) If you open the bottom door to the F, you'll see that the coin return cup is attached to the front grill. On both my F and G, I drilled a 1/4" (or smaller) hole in the middle of the back mounting plate that secures the coin return front chrome trim to the plate. I then mounted a small momentary contact, pushbutton switch in this hole. Next, I ran some tiny, two conductor wiring from that switch around the inside of the door - following the other wiring for the door's light - back into the cabinet and over to the slug rejector. I made sure that this wire was tidy and inconspicuous. Next, I soldered the two leads of the wire to the switch contacts on the bottom of the slug rejector that close when a quarter is dropped in. I don't remember off hand which points to solder to, but the manual points out which of the leads on this switch bank assembly are for dimes, nickels, and quarters. So with the wire attached to the same switch points that will close when a quarter is dropped in, I removed the credit unit and moved the screw stub that controls how far the credit wheel will travel when a quarter is used. On many of the machines, getting three plays for a quarter seems to be the standard. Follow the manual and place the stub in the location that will give you five plays for a quarter. Close the door to the F when you're done. Now, if all goes well, you just need to reach into the coin return cup and give that switch (which should be completely out of sight if you used a small enough switch) a push...and voila! Instant 5 credits! The Select light will come on so you won't lose that eye-candy. The credit unit hasn't been modified at all that isn't within spec of the manual...and you can still drop coins in to make selections. Since the credit unit is an accumulator, push the button as many times as you want. You can play the entire jukebox with only a few pushes. Good luck! Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Shaw bryanlshaw@hotmail.com Sent 2/25/2009 8:02:57 PM To: jukebox group jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] f120 free play Hi all, I am looking for a safe method to set my ami f120 for free play. thank you Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmailmore than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From aaron at vertasource.com Thu Feb 26 10:41:25 2009 From: aaron at vertasource.com (Aaron Heverin) Date: Thu Feb 26 10:37:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f 120 selector problem Message-ID: <200902261341738.SM00628@[192.168.1.206]> Bryan, Did you check to see if the gripper arm motor was in good shape? I've had those fail many times due to bad bushings or 50 year grease that's turned to tar inside the motor housing. When the carriage comes to a raised selection pin and stops...do you hear the carriage relay kick in? Or is the carriage stopping because it's jammed against the raised pin and simply can't move any more? If that's the case, the smoke could be coming from the transfer motor which is on it's way to burning up because nothing is cutting the power to it. I think we talked about this before if I'm not mistaken (but could very well be). I think those switches...the ones that are mounted on the carriage junction box that control the stopping of the carriage on a raised odd or even selection pin... are the culprit. Those have to be spotless clean and in factory spec working order or else you'll get all of the symptoms you're describing here. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Shaw bryanlshaw@hotmail.com Sent 2/23/2009 3:03:02 PM To: jukebox group jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] f 120 selector problem I've got a better description of my f 120 problem. I pressed a selection , the carriage went to the selection, this time it sat there and ran, did not pick up a record, smoke came from the right rear corner and stay ed just like that. I shut it down, had to pry the selector pin down from the carriage pawl, it was really bound. Now, the rear selector pawl s witch, when pressed, does nothing. When I press the front selector paw l switch, the selector relay activates, turntable spins, transfer arm does not engage to load record. I did check voltage on the rear side swit ch and it is 14v on one side of the switch,when I activate the swicth, the voltage drops to near zero on both sides. If I manually activate the r eversing coil, it buzzes a bit, no action at all. I have ordered a rep lacement reset solenoid, reversing switch assy and the selector switch as sy. Just wanted to get some ideas before I put the replacement parts at ris k. One note, the carriage assembly was not stopping in the proper place in relation to the record when it was to pick up. It lined up and missed r ecord by approx 1/2" a couple of times, then the above happened. thank you _________________________________________________________________ Its the same Hotmail. If by same you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk Thu Feb 26 10:58:07 2009 From: jukeofshrewsbury at tiscali.co.uk (Juke of Shrewsbury) Date: Thu Feb 26 10:59:31 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing References: <987542.64962.qm@web42106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7268C29691F34822BC00E0EABE167BD8@JUKEBUS> ..Thanks everyone! I guess this one will have to remain missing as well. Adrian. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Breneman" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] AMI "A" Record playing Hey, here's a picture that shows it (just barely) on the pinballrebel.com web site: http://www.pinballrebel.com/archive/ami/a/amia_b.jpg You can see the bottom of the wheel on its bracket at the upper right. Between the wheel and the row of selector buttons in the chain running down to the drive shaft. The drive shaft disappears behind the turntable motor, reappears to its right and disappears again behind the transfer arm motor. Looks like the numbers have been removed from that wheel, too. David Breneman david_breneman@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1971 - Release Date: 02/25/09 06:40:00 From steve at pro-ns.net Thu Feb 26 10:58:46 2009 From: steve at pro-ns.net (Steve Wahl) Date: Thu Feb 26 10:59:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] f 120 selector problem In-Reply-To: <200902261341738.SM00628@[192.168.1.206]> References: <200902261341738.SM00628@[192.168.1.206]> Message-ID: <20090226185846.GS3218@pro-ns.net> I seem to recall that running up against a pin can also be a symptom of a dirty contact in one of the switches. The AMI's utilize the "dynamic braking effect" of the motors: instead of just removing power from the motor, a short is placed across the motor. This stops the motor much faster than it would stop by just disconnecting power -- the motor turns into a sort of generator, trying to drive a near-zero-ohm load. Anyway, you have to examine the schematic and figure out which switch contacts are providing this short, and clean them, to check out this possibility. --> Steve On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 06:41:25PM +0000, Aaron Heverin wrote: > Bryan, > Did you check to see if the gripper arm motor was in good shape? I've had those fail many times due to bad bushings or 50 year grease that's turned to tar inside the motor housing. > > When the carriage comes to a raised selection pin and stops...do you hear the carriage relay kick in? Or is the carriage stopping because it's jammed against the raised pin and simply can't move any more? If that's the case, the smoke could be coming from the transfer motor which is on it's way to burning up because nothing is cutting the power to it. > > I think we talked about this before if I'm not mistaken (but could very well be). I think those switches...the ones that are mounted on the carriage junction box that control the stopping of the carriage on a raised odd or even selection pin... are the culprit. Those have to be spotless clean and in factory spec working order or else you'll get all of the symptoms you're describing here. > > > Aaron > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Shaw bryanlshaw@hotmail.com > Sent 2/23/2009 3:03:02 PM > To: jukebox group jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Subject: [Jukebox-list] f 120 selector problem > > > I've got a better description of my f 120 problem. I pressed a selection > , the carriage went to the selection, this time it sat there and ran, > did not pick up a record, smoke came from the right rear corner and stay > ed just like that. I shut it down, had to pry the selector pin down from > the carriage pawl, it was really bound. Now, the rear selector pawl s > witch, when pressed, does nothing. When I press the front selector paw > l switch, the selector relay activates, turntable spins, transfer arm > does not engage to load record. I did check voltage on the rear side swit > ch and it is 14v on one side of the switch,when I activate the swicth, > the voltage drops to near zero on both sides. If I manually activate the r > eversing coil, it buzzes a bit, no action at all. I have ordered a rep > lacement reset solenoid, reversing switch assy and the selector switch as > sy. Just wanted to get some ideas before I put the replacement parts at ris > k. One note, the carriage assembly was not stopping in the proper place > in relation to the record when it was to pick up. It lined up and missed r > ecord by approx 1/2" a couple of times, then the above happened. > > thank you > > _________________________________________________________________ > Its the same Hotmail. If by same you mean up to 70% faster. > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009_______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list -- Steve Wahl steve@pro-ns.net Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep. -- Scott Adams From william_hill at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 26 12:36:40 2009 From: william_hill at sbcglobal.net (William Hill) Date: Thu Feb 26 12:46:55 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] WTB: AMI Continental Message-ID: <37B5228B7B8348E9B99415AB9B8A81E3@yoursz6x6sefxo> Hi folks, I'm looking to purchase a complete restorable Continental 2. Does anyone have one for sale or know of any available? Thanks and Regards. From 19k20 at comcast.net Thu Feb 26 13:05:37 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Thu Feb 26 13:06:46 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01c99855$f99feea0$ecdfcbe0$@net> Gentlemen: Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected 60Hz and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move much one direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks to be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace the motor. Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely separated. See pics of it here. http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only one broken. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical Music of S.F. Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Hi. Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been installed. That's also a possibility. (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. Not familiar with where you're located. What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, but thought it was worth asking. Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did you recently tune this machine up? I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing too fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were right on. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi tworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1971 - Release Date: 02/26/09 07:03:00 From johndt3 at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 14:00:35 2009 From: johndt3 at gmail.com (johndt3) Date: Thu Feb 26 14:09:38 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit Message-ID: <49A71103.50109@gmail.com> I'm really having fun with this one. I'm currently working on a Wurlitzer 2800, which calls for a 545 amplifier. The jukebox has a 544 amplifier, in it which is for the 2700. So, we ordered a capacitor kit for the 544. As you already know I have ran into a few problems that I have previously posted regarding the capacitor kit, and I received a lot of help,-thank you. I have been having a little trouble getting the schematic to make sense in some of the places where a capacitor needs to be changed, but, I am keeping track of everything, so I'm not too worried. Anyway, I found a capacitor in the amplifier that I could not find on the schematic. So, I looked at the 545 schematic, and there was the missing capacitor. It appears that I have a 544 amplifier according to the stamp on the amplifier, but it is wired like the 545. The amplifiers may be interchangeable with the exception of having some small differences within the amplifiers that would not relate to the plug-ins... I don't really know. Nevertheless, I have a 544 kit, with a 544 schematic, and a marked 544 amplifier, a schematic for a 545 amplifier, that says my 544 amplifier matches it. Confused... I am. I have asked my friend to contact the person that he purchased the amplifier kit from to see if there was any differences in the kits between the 544 and the 545,-if so,- what. Another thing that I'm not really sure about is some of the capacitors themselves,-not being that familiar with the differences between the types of capacitors and how they affect the circuit, other than a polarized versus a non-polarized,-I'm not sure of some of the changes and I would like to ask for opinions on this. A large paper .1uf 400 volt capacitor is to be replaced with a miniature ceramic 102K 600 V capacitor,-the 102K I believe works out to be .102uf, so I don't know any reason why this would not work. I hope so because that's what they gave me to replace the large paper capacitor with. The bottom line is, if anyone could add any information about any of this that might help clear up my mess,- like, is there a difference between the capacitor kits, and so forth,-please let me know. Thanks John D. Taylor III From bobe at halted.com Thu Feb 26 15:12:25 2009 From: bobe at halted.com (Bob Ellingson) Date: Thu Feb 26 15:25:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit Message-ID: <2.2.32.20090226231225.00994378@hsces.com> At 05:00 PM 2/26/2009 -0500, you wrote: > >Another thing that I'm not really sure about is some of the capacitors >themselves,-not being that familiar with the differences between the >types of capacitors and how they affect the circuit, other than a >polarized versus a non-polarized,-I'm not sure of some of the changes >and I would like to ask for opinions on this. A large paper .1uf 400 >volt capacitor is to be replaced with a miniature ceramic 102K 600 V >capacitor,-the 102K I believe works out to be .102uf, so I don't know >any reason why this would not work. I hope so because that's what they >gave me to replace the large paper capacitor with. I don't think a ceramic cap is a suitable replacement for a paper cap, especially if it is in the audio path. Also, 102K is read like a resistor, the first two digits are the significant digits, the third is the multiplier, so 102 = 1000 picofarad. The "K" indicates the tolerance. This translates to .001 microfarad, and is not even close to the .1 uf cap, so I think you need to look for a different replacement, probably a mylar or polystyrene cap. --Bob ======================================================================= Bob Ellingson bobe@halted.com Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) From dirksenj at bellsouth.net Thu Feb 26 16:09:32 2009 From: dirksenj at bellsouth.net (dirksenj@bellsouth.net) Date: Thu Feb 26 16:10:40 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit References: <49A71103.50109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005c01c9986f$aab796c0$6101a8c0@Dirksen> Sounds like the tube cover plate (with silk screened tube info and ID) was swapped between the two amps. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "johndt3" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit > > I'm really having fun with this one. I'm currently working on a Wurlitzer > 2800, which calls for a 545 amplifier. The jukebox has a 544 amplifier, > in it which is for the 2700. So, we ordered a capacitor kit for the 544. > As you already know I have ran into a few problems that I have previously > posted regarding the capacitor kit, and I received a lot of help,-thank > you. > > I have been having a little trouble getting the schematic to make sense in > some of the places where a capacitor needs to be changed, but, I am > keeping track of everything, so I'm not too worried. Anyway, I found a > capacitor in the amplifier that I could not find on the schematic. So, I > looked at the 545 schematic, and there was the missing capacitor. It > appears that I have a 544 amplifier according to the stamp on the > amplifier, but it is wired like the 545. > > The amplifiers may be interchangeable with the exception of having some > small differences within the amplifiers that would not relate to the > plug-ins... I don't really know. > Nevertheless, I have a 544 kit, with a 544 schematic, and a marked 544 > amplifier, a schematic for a 545 amplifier, that says my 544 amplifier > matches it. Confused... I am. I have asked my friend to contact the > person that he purchased the amplifier kit from to see if there was any > differences in the kits between the 544 and the 545,-if so,- what. > > Another thing that I'm not really sure about is some of the capacitors > themselves,-not being that familiar with the differences between the types > of capacitors and how they affect the circuit, other than a polarized > versus a non-polarized,-I'm not sure of some of the changes and I would > like to ask for opinions on this. A large paper .1uf 400 volt capacitor > is to be replaced with a miniature ceramic 102K 600 V capacitor,-the 102K > I believe works out to be .102uf, so I don't know any reason why this > would not work. I hope so because that's what they gave me to replace the > large paper capacitor with. > > The bottom line is, if anyone could add any information about any of this > that might help clear up my mess,- like, is there a difference between the > capacitor kits, and so forth,-please let me know. > > Thanks > John D. Taylor III > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From jscaptura at stny.rr.com Thu Feb 26 16:52:14 2009 From: jscaptura at stny.rr.com (Jon Scaptura) Date: Thu Feb 26 16:53:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit References: <49A71103.50109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BA7090E8BD64EC5BFA1926CBDEE9AF6@DFLXW121> John, 102K = .001uF. To replace the .1uF cap, you need a 104K Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "johndt3" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit > > I'm really having fun with this one. I'm currently working on a > Wurlitzer 2800, which calls for a 545 amplifier. The jukebox has a 544 > amplifier, in it which is for the 2700. So, we ordered a capacitor kit > for the 544. As you already know I have ran into a few problems that I > have previously posted regarding the capacitor kit, and I received a lot > of help,-thank you. > > I have been having a little trouble getting the schematic to make sense > in some of the places where a capacitor needs to be changed, but, I am > keeping track of everything, so I'm not too worried. Anyway, I found a > capacitor in the amplifier that I could not find on the schematic. So, > I looked at the 545 schematic, and there was the missing capacitor. It > appears that I have a 544 amplifier according to the stamp on the > amplifier, but it is wired like the 545. > > The amplifiers may be interchangeable with the exception of having some > small differences within the amplifiers that would not relate to the > plug-ins... I don't really know. > > Nevertheless, I have a 544 kit, with a 544 schematic, and a marked 544 > amplifier, a schematic for a 545 amplifier, that says my 544 amplifier > matches it. Confused... I am. I have asked my friend to contact the > person that he purchased the amplifier kit from to see if there was any > differences in the kits between the 544 and the 545,-if so,- what. > > Another thing that I'm not really sure about is some of the capacitors > themselves,-not being that familiar with the differences between the > types of capacitors and how they affect the circuit, other than a > polarized versus a non-polarized,-I'm not sure of some of the changes > and I would like to ask for opinions on this. A large paper .1uf 400 > volt capacitor is to be replaced with a miniature ceramic 102K 600 V > capacitor,-the 102K I believe works out to be .102uf, so I don't know > any reason why this would not work. I hope so because that's what they > gave me to replace the large paper capacitor with. > > The bottom line is, if anyone could add any information about any of > this that might help clear up my mess,- like, is there a difference > between the capacitor kits, and so forth,-please let me know. > > Thanks > John D. Taylor III > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From david_breneman at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 19:38:35 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Thu Feb 26 19:39:36 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] AMI "Record Playing" Indicator In-Reply-To: <4BA7090E8BD64EC5BFA1926CBDEE9AF6@DFLXW121> Message-ID: <491591.78678.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thomas Moran sent me the picture he saved from an Ebay sale of an AMI Model A "record playing" mechanism. I've put it on my AMI A web page for anyone who wants to see it. Go to: http://www.tildebang.com/jukebox/ ...scroll down to the bottom and click on the "Click here for pictures of the AMI Model A" link. BTW, if annybody knows a good source for the gold curtain material that forms a stage for the record changer, I'm still looking for it. David Breneman david_breneman@yahoo.com From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 19:46:51 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Thu Feb 26 19:47:52 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <001e01c99855$f99feea0$ecdfcbe0$@net> Message-ID: <929861.93838.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Rich, The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel??? (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM Gentlemen: Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected 60Hz and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move much one direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks to be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace the motor. Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely separated. See pics of it here. http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only one broken. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical Music of S.F. Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Hi. Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been installed. That's also a possibility. (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. Not familiar with where you're located. What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, but thought it was worth asking. Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did you recently tune this machine up? I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing too fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were right on. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi tworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1971 - Release Date: 02/26/09 07:03:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From 19k20 at comcast.net Thu Feb 26 22:40:18 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Thu Feb 26 22:41:18 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <929861.93838.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <001e01c99855$f99feea0$ecdfcbe0$@net> <929861.93838.qm@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c998a6$4279a030$c76ce090$@net> Ron, I also printed out a 50Hz 45RPM strobe disc. When I played it. The lines still appeared to move...this time counter clockwise...indicating playing to slow for that cycle. Idler wheel might be it. Does anyone have the diameter of a known good 45rpm idler. I would be happy to measure it out. Thanks again Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:47 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Rich, The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel??? (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM Gentlemen: Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected 60Hz and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move much one direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks to be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace the motor. Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely separated. See pics of it here. http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only one broken. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical Music of S.F. Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Hi. Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been installed. That's also a possibility. (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. Not familiar with where you're located. What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, but thought it was worth asking. Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did you recently tune this machine up? I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing too fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were right on. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi tworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1971 - Release Date: 02/26/09 07:03:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1974 - Release Date: 02/26/09 14:51:00 From dave.halford at telent.com Fri Feb 27 00:39:29 2009 From: dave.halford at telent.com (dave.halford@telent.com) Date: Fri Feb 27 00:40:45 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <000001c998a6$4279a030$c76ce090$@net> Message-ID: <20090227083932.239D71ECFCE@blade104.la.inty.net> Rich The size of an idler wheel is irrelevant to overall gearing. Only the shaft and turntable have any effect. So the questions are - Is there anything on the motor shaft like a spring? Thats how Rockola speed up 60hz motors in 50hz areas. A 50hz motor on a 60hz supply will run fast! regards Dave H "Ssg Rich Myers" <19k20@comcast.net> To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Sent by: cc: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast etlojix.com 27/02/2009 06:40 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Ron, I also printed out a 50Hz 45RPM strobe disc. When I played it. The lines still appeared to move...this time counter clockwise...indicating playing to slow for that cycle. Idler wheel might be it. Does anyone have the diameter of a known good 45rpm idler. I would be happy to measure it out. Thanks again Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:47 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Rich, The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel?? (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM Gentlemen: Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected 60Hz and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move much one direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks to be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace the motor. Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely separated. See pics of it here. http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only one broken. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical Music of S.F. Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Hi. Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been installed. That's also a possibility. (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. Not familiar with where you're located. What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, but thought it was worth asking. Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did you recently tune this machine up? I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing too fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were right on. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi tworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1971 - Release Date: 02/26/09 07:03:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1974 - Release Date: 02/26/09 14:51:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission or for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net From gazzyoung_uk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 27 02:17:50 2009 From: gazzyoung_uk at yahoo.co.uk (Gary Young) Date: Fri Feb 27 02:19:02 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] WTB: AMI Continental In-Reply-To: <37B5228B7B8348E9B99415AB9B8A81E3@yoursz6x6sefxo> Message-ID: <267436.45564.qm@web23205.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi William, it would be easier if you could you let us know where you are located? Remember this forum is made up of folks from all across the globe. It would be pointless recommending ebay uk if you were located in the US. My suggestion would be to try your local ebay or craigslist as a first stop. If you go to a reputable dealer rather than opt for a private sale, you may have to pay a higher price, but should hopefully have the benefit of some friendly back up/after sales advice etc. should things go wrong. Your choice. Gary --- On Thu, 26/2/09, William Hill wrote: > From: William Hill > Subject: [Jukebox-list] WTB: AMI Continental > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Date: Thursday, 26 February, 2009, 8:36 PM > Hi folks, > > I'm looking to purchase a complete restorable > Continental 2. Does anyone have one for sale or know of any > available? > > Thanks and Regards. > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From johndt3 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 04:44:20 2009 From: johndt3 at gmail.com (johndt3) Date: Fri Feb 27 04:45:32 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit In-Reply-To: <4BA7090E8BD64EC5BFA1926CBDEE9AF6@DFLXW121> References: <49A71103.50109@gmail.com> <4BA7090E8BD64EC5BFA1926CBDEE9AF6@DFLXW121> Message-ID: <49A7E024.2010909@gmail.com> Thanks Jon. Jon Scaptura wrote: > John, > 102K = .001uF. To replace the .1uF cap, you need a 104K > > Jon > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "johndt3" > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:00 PM > Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit > > >> >> I'm really having fun with this one. I'm currently working on a >> Wurlitzer 2800, which calls for a 545 amplifier. The jukebox has a >> 544 amplifier, in it which is for the 2700. So, we ordered a >> capacitor kit for the 544. As you already know I have ran into a >> few problems that I have previously posted regarding the capacitor >> kit, and I received a lot of help,-thank you. >> >> I have been having a little trouble getting the schematic to make >> sense in some of the places where a capacitor needs to be changed, >> but, I am keeping track of everything, so I'm not too worried. >> Anyway, I found a capacitor in the amplifier that I could not find on >> the schematic. So, I looked at the 545 schematic, and there was the >> missing capacitor. It appears that I have a 544 amplifier according >> to the stamp on the amplifier, but it is wired like the 545. >> >> The amplifiers may be interchangeable with the exception of having >> some small differences within the amplifiers that would not relate to >> the plug-ins... I don't really know. >> Nevertheless, I have a 544 kit, with a 544 schematic, and a marked >> 544 amplifier, a schematic for a 545 amplifier, that says my 544 >> amplifier matches it. Confused... I am. I have asked my friend to >> contact the person that he purchased the amplifier kit from to see if >> there was any differences in the kits between the 544 and the 545,-if >> so,- what. >> >> Another thing that I'm not really sure about is some of the >> capacitors themselves,-not being that familiar with the differences >> between the types of capacitors and how they affect the circuit, >> other than a polarized versus a non-polarized,-I'm not sure of some >> of the changes and I would like to ask for opinions on this. A large >> paper .1uf 400 volt capacitor is to be replaced with a miniature >> ceramic 102K 600 V capacitor,-the 102K I believe works out to be >> .102uf, so I don't know any reason why this would not work. I hope >> so because that's what they gave me to replace the large paper >> capacitor with. >> >> The bottom line is, if anyone could add any information about any of >> this that might help clear up my mess,- like, is there a difference >> between the capacitor kits, and so forth,-please let me know. >> >> Thanks >> John D. Taylor III >> _______________________________________________ >> Jukebox-list mailing list >> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From johndt3 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 04:45:52 2009 From: johndt3 at gmail.com (johndt3) Date: Fri Feb 27 04:47:05 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit In-Reply-To: <005c01c9986f$aab796c0$6101a8c0@Dirksen> References: <49A71103.50109@gmail.com> <005c01c9986f$aab796c0$6101a8c0@Dirksen> Message-ID: <49A7E080.50301@gmail.com> Thanks Jim, I guess anything is possible. dirksenj@bellsouth.net wrote: > Sounds like the tube cover plate (with silk screened tube info and ID) > was swapped between the two amps. > > Jim > ----- Original Message ----- From: "johndt3" > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:00 PM > Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit > > >> >> I'm really having fun with this one. I'm currently working on a >> Wurlitzer 2800, which calls for a 545 amplifier. The jukebox has a >> 544 amplifier, in it which is for the 2700. So, we ordered a >> capacitor kit for the 544. As you already know I have ran into a few >> problems that I have previously posted regarding the capacitor kit, >> and I received a lot of help,-thank you. >> >> I have been having a little trouble getting the schematic to make >> sense in some of the places where a capacitor needs to be changed, >> but, I am keeping track of everything, so I'm not too worried. >> Anyway, I found a capacitor in the amplifier that I could not find on >> the schematic. So, I looked at the 545 schematic, and there was the >> missing capacitor. It appears that I have a 544 amplifier according >> to the stamp on the amplifier, but it is wired like the 545. >> >> The amplifiers may be interchangeable with the exception of having >> some small differences within the amplifiers that would not relate to >> the plug-ins... I don't really know. >> Nevertheless, I have a 544 kit, with a 544 schematic, and a marked >> 544 amplifier, a schematic for a 545 amplifier, that says my 544 >> amplifier matches it. Confused... I am. I have asked my friend to >> contact the person that he purchased the amplifier kit from to see if >> there was any differences in the kits between the 544 and the 545,-if >> so,- what. >> >> Another thing that I'm not really sure about is some of the >> capacitors themselves,-not being that familiar with the differences >> between the types of capacitors and how they affect the circuit, >> other than a polarized versus a non-polarized,-I'm not sure of some >> of the changes and I would like to ask for opinions on this. A large >> paper .1uf 400 volt capacitor is to be replaced with a miniature >> ceramic 102K 600 V capacitor,-the 102K I believe works out to be >> .102uf, so I don't know any reason why this would not work. I hope >> so because that's what they gave me to replace the large paper >> capacitor with. >> >> The bottom line is, if anyone could add any information about any of >> this that might help clear up my mess,- like, is there a difference >> between the capacitor kits, and so forth,-please let me know. >> >> Thanks >> John D. Taylor III >> _______________________________________________ >> Jukebox-list mailing list >> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From johndt3 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 05:01:42 2009 From: johndt3 at gmail.com (johndt3) Date: Fri Feb 27 05:02:55 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20090226231225.00994378@hsces.com> References: <2.2.32.20090226231225.00994378@hsces.com> Message-ID: <49A7E436.2090900@gmail.com> Thanks Bob, I really appreciate the input. This is my first attempt at recapping one of these old amplifiers. I've done a lot upgrades on monitors,- and I was surprised to find these old amplifiers to be more challenging. It looks like I'm going to have to relearn a lot more than I remember about these capacitor markings. I also need to compare these two schematics and see how much difference there is, and how much rework I need to do,-if any. It's back to the books. Thanks again. John D. Taylor III Bob Ellingson wrote: > At 05:00 PM 2/26/2009 -0500, you wrote: > > >> Another thing that I'm not really sure about is some of the capacitors >> themselves,-not being that familiar with the differences between the >> types of capacitors and how they affect the circuit, other than a >> polarized versus a non-polarized,-I'm not sure of some of the changes >> and I would like to ask for opinions on this. A large paper .1uf 400 >> volt capacitor is to be replaced with a miniature ceramic 102K 600 V >> capacitor,-the 102K I believe works out to be .102uf, so I don't know >> any reason why this would not work. I hope so because that's what they >> gave me to replace the large paper capacitor with. >> > > I don't think a ceramic cap is a suitable replacement for a paper cap, > especially if it is in the audio path. Also, 102K is read like a resistor, > the first two digits are the significant digits, the third is the > multiplier, so 102 = 1000 picofarad. The "K" indicates the tolerance. This > translates to .001 microfarad, and is not even close to the .1 uf cap, so I > think you need to look for a different replacement, probably a mylar or > polystyrene cap. > > --Bob > ======================================================================= > Bob Ellingson bobe@halted.com > Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com > 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 > Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > From jscaptura at stny.rr.com Fri Feb 27 05:18:29 2009 From: jscaptura at stny.rr.com (Jon Scaptura) Date: Fri Feb 27 05:22:12 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit References: <2.2.32.20090226231225.00994378@hsces.com> <49A7E436.2090900@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've been buying my capacitors from http://justradios.com/. I repair antique radios, and found that they have some of the hard to find values that were used in tube amps and radios. Their tubular caps are small enough to fit inside the original paper caps in many situations. I occasionally "restuff" paper caps where a restoration needs to look original, but operate like new. Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "johndt3" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] top 44 amplifier capacitor kit > Thanks Bob, I really appreciate the input. This is my first attempt at > recapping one of these old amplifiers. I've done a lot upgrades on > monitors,- and I was surprised to find these old amplifiers to be more > challenging. It looks like I'm going to have to relearn a lot more than I > remember about these capacitor markings. I also need to compare these two > schematics and see how much difference there is, and how much rework I > need to do,-if any. It's back to the books. Thanks again. > > John D. Taylor III > > > Bob Ellingson wrote: >> At 05:00 PM 2/26/2009 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>> Another thing that I'm not really sure about is some of the capacitors >>> themselves,-not being that familiar with the differences between the >>> types of capacitors and how they affect the circuit, other than a >>> polarized versus a non-polarized,-I'm not sure of some of the changes >>> and I would like to ask for opinions on this. A large paper .1uf 400 >>> volt capacitor is to be replaced with a miniature ceramic 102K 600 V >>> capacitor,-the 102K I believe works out to be .102uf, so I don't know >>> any reason why this would not work. I hope so because that's what they >>> gave me to replace the large paper capacitor with. >>> >> >> I don't think a ceramic cap is a suitable replacement for a paper cap, >> especially if it is in the audio path. Also, 102K is read like a >> resistor, >> the first two digits are the significant digits, the third is the >> multiplier, so 102 = 1000 picofarad. The "K" indicates the tolerance. >> This >> translates to .001 microfarad, and is not even close to the .1 uf cap, so >> I >> think you need to look for a different replacement, probably a mylar or >> polystyrene cap. >> >> --Bob >> ======================================================================= >> Bob Ellingson bobe@halted.com >> Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com >> 3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573 >> Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Jukebox-list mailing list >> Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From kentteffeteller at hotmail.com Fri Feb 27 06:04:17 2009 From: kentteffeteller at hotmail.com (Kent Teffeteller) Date: Fri Feb 27 06:11:56 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] RE: Jukebox-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: <20090226200004.37E35AB06B@lists.netlojix.com> References: <20090226200004.37E35AB06B@lists.netlojix.com> Message-ID: Jeff, I would recommend keeping your rare 45 originals in mint condition for play only on high end audiophile type turntables with light tracking cartridges. Get reissue pressings for play in the Seeburg or VG condition copies if no reissues are available. Use those options for play copies. Most jukeboxes play at higher tracking forces than I like for rare records. The Seeburgs are OK on records for the most part. I use reissues or VG condition copies in my Seeburg AY-160 jukes with Pickerings factory installed. Kent Teffeteller, Ph,D!, CSBE, CBT, CNT. MCSE! _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009 From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 27 08:31:09 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 27 08:33:20 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <20090227083932.239D71ECFCE@blade104.la.inty.net> Message-ID: <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dave, Rich, I don't believe this to be the fact on this model, as it is not really an "idler wheel", but a belt drive pully, the size of which, it would seem to me, would make a difference---? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/27/09, dave.halford@telent.com wrote: From: dave.halford@telent.com Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:39 AM Rich The size of an idler wheel is irrelevant to overall gearing. Only the shaft and turntable have any effect. So the questions are - Is there anything on the motor shaft like a spring? Thats how Rockola speed up 60hz motors in 50hz areas. A 50hz motor on a 60hz supply will run fast! regards Dave H "Ssg Rich Myers" <19k20@comcast.net> To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Sent by: cc: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast etlojix.com 27/02/2009 06:40 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Ron, I also printed out a 50Hz 45RPM strobe disc. When I played it. The lines still appeared to move...this time counter clockwise...indicating playing to slow for that cycle. Idler wheel might be it. Does anyone have the diameter of a known good 45rpm idler. I would be happy to measure it out. Thanks again Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:47 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Rich, The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel?? (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM Gentlemen: Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected 60Hz and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move much one direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks to be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace the motor. Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely separated. See pics of it here. http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only one broken. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical Music of S.F. Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Hi. Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been installed. That's also a possibility. (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. Not familiar with where you're located. What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, but thought it was worth asking. Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did you recently tune this machine up? I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing too fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were right on. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi tworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1971 - Release Date: 02/26/09 07:03:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1974 - Release Date: 02/26/09 14:51:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. 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Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From pinball at telus.net Fri Feb 27 08:45:43 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Fri Feb 27 08:46:54 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A818B7.1050104@telus.net> Ron Rich wrote: > Dave, Rich, > I don't believe this to be the fact on this model, as it is not really an "idler wheel", but a belt drive pully, the size of which, it would seem to me, would make a difference---? Ron Rich > > If Rich had an oversize O-Ring this could cause the record to play fast. The diameter of the neoprene should be around 1/8" - 3/16". A larger diameter ring would sit higher in the groove and thus the ratio would be different. John :-#)# > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, dave.halford@telent.com wrote: > > From: dave.halford@telent.com > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:39 AM > > Rich > The size of an idler wheel is irrelevant to overall gearing. Only the shaft > and turntable have any effect. > So the questions are - > Is there anything on the motor shaft like a spring? Thats how Rockola speed > up 60hz motors in 50hz areas. > A 50hz motor on a 60hz supply will run fast! > > regards > > Dave H > > > > > > > "Ssg Rich Myers" > > <19k20@comcast.net> To: > "'Jukebox mailing list'" > > Sent by: cc: > > jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: RE: > [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > etlojix.com > > > > > > 27/02/2009 06:40 > > Please respond to Jukebox > > mailing list > > > > > > > > Ron, > > I also printed out a 50Hz 45RPM strobe disc. When I played it. The lines > still appeared to move...this time counter clockwise...indicating playing > to > slow for that cycle. > > Idler wheel might be it. Does anyone have the diameter of a known good > 45rpm idler. I would be happy to measure it out. > > Thanks again > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:47 PM > To: Jukebox mailing list > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > > Rich, > The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken > motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel?? > (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich > > --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: > > From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" > > Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM > > Gentlemen: > > Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing > somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link > http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What > is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected > 60Hz > and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move > much one > direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as > opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks > to > be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace > turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace > the > motor. > > Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely > separated. See pics of it here. > http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has > something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only > one broken. > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical > Music of S.F. > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > > > Hi. > Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or > dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. > I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is > that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something > (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been > installed. That's also a possibility. > (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. > Not > familiar with where you're located. > > What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. > Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, > but > thought it was worth asking. > > Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did > you recently > tune this machine up? > I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and > when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a > speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing > too > fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were > right on. > > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From pinball at telus.net Fri Feb 27 08:46:19 2009 From: pinball at telus.net (John Robertson) Date: Fri Feb 27 08:47:29 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A818DB.3090106@telus.net> Ron Rich wrote: > Dave, Rich, > I don't believe this to be the fact on this model, as it is not really an "idler wheel", but a belt drive pully, the size of which, it would seem to me, would make a difference---? Ron Rich > > If Rich had an oversize O-Ring this could cause the record to play fast. The diameter of the neoprene should be around 1/8" - 3/16". A larger diameter ring would sit higher in the groove and thus the ratio would be different. John :-#)# > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, dave.halford@telent.com wrote: > > From: dave.halford@telent.com > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:39 AM > > Rich > The size of an idler wheel is irrelevant to overall gearing. Only the shaft > and turntable have any effect. > So the questions are - > Is there anything on the motor shaft like a spring? Thats how Rockola speed > up 60hz motors in 50hz areas. > A 50hz motor on a 60hz supply will run fast! > > regards > > Dave H > > > > > > > "Ssg Rich Myers" > > <19k20@comcast.net> To: > "'Jukebox mailing list'" > > Sent by: cc: > > jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: RE: > [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > etlojix.com > > > > > > 27/02/2009 06:40 > > Please respond to Jukebox > > mailing list > > > > > > > > Ron, > > I also printed out a 50Hz 45RPM strobe disc. When I played it. The lines > still appeared to move...this time counter clockwise...indicating playing > to > slow for that cycle. > > Idler wheel might be it. Does anyone have the diameter of a known good > 45rpm idler. I would be happy to measure it out. > > Thanks again > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:47 PM > To: Jukebox mailing list > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > > Rich, > The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken > motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel?? > (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich > > --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: > > From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" > > Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM > > Gentlemen: > > Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing > somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link > http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What > is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected > 60Hz > and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move > much one > direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as > opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks > to > be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace > turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace > the > motor. > > Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely > separated. See pics of it here. > http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has > something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only > one broken. > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical > Music of S.F. > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > > > Hi. > Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or > dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. > I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is > that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something > (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been > installed. That's also a possibility. > (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. > Not > familiar with where you're located. > > What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. > Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, > but > thought it was worth asking. > > Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did > you recently > tune this machine up? > I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and > when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a > speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing > too > fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were > right on. > > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" From drjukebox at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 08:59:25 2009 From: drjukebox at gmail.com (Jens Hultgren) Date: Fri Feb 27 09:00:34 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <49A818DB.3090106@telus.net> References: <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <49A818DB.3090106@telus.net> Message-ID: <3154d3690902270859y10558f81sdf1d3082242d74d@mail.gmail.com> FWIW, I have idler wheels in about six different sizes50 cycle and 60 I had some custom made after noticing that tt speed would vary quite a bit different motors? but this was for 1700-2500 models I have little experience with the later stuff different sizes also meant I could make those happy who weren't content with 45.0 rpm ;o) even better when I had those electronic speed regulators for Seeburgs and 78 rpm machines Jens On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 5:46 PM, John Robertson wrote: > Ron Rich wrote: > >> Dave, Rich, >> I don't believe this to be the fact on this model, as it is not really an >> "idler wheel", but a belt drive pully, the size of which, it would seem to >> me, would make a difference---? Ron Rich >> >> >> > > If Rich had an oversize O-Ring this could cause the record to play fast. > The diameter of the neoprene should be around 1/8" - 3/16". > > A larger diameter ring would sit higher in the groove and thus the ratio > would be different. > > John :-#)# > >> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, dave.halford@telent.com >> wrote: >> >> >> From: dave.halford@telent.com >> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast >> To: "Jukebox mailing list" >> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:39 AM >> >> Rich >> The size of an idler wheel is irrelevant to overall gearing. Only the >> shaft >> and turntable have any effect. >> So the questions are - >> Is there anything on the motor shaft like a spring? Thats how Rockola >> speed >> up 60hz motors in 50hz areas. >> A 50hz motor on a 60hz supply will run fast! >> >> regards >> >> Dave H >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "Ssg Rich Myers" >> < >> 19k20@comcast.net> To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" >> >> Sent by: cc: >> >> jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: RE: >> [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast >> etlojix.com >> >> >> >> >> 27/02/2009 >> 06:40 >> Please respond to >> Jukebox >> mailing list >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ron, >> >> I also printed out a 50Hz 45RPM strobe disc. When I played it. The lines >> still appeared to move...this time counter clockwise...indicating playing >> to >> slow for that cycle. >> >> Idler wheel might be it. Does anyone have the diameter of a known good >> 45rpm idler. I would be happy to measure it out. >> >> Thanks again >> >> Rich >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com >> [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich >> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:47 PM >> To: Jukebox mailing list >> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast >> >> Rich, >> The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken >> motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel?? >> (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich >> >> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> >> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast >> To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" >> >> Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM >> >> Gentlemen: >> >> Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing >> somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link >> http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. >> What >> is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected >> 60Hz >> and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move >> much one >> direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as >> opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks >> to >> be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace >> turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace >> the >> motor. >> >> Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely >> separated. See pics of it here. >> http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has >> something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the >> only >> one broken. >> >> Rich >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com >> [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical >> Music of S.F. >> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM >> To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com >> Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast >> >> >> Hi. >> Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or >> dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. >> I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is >> that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something >> (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been >> installed. That's also a possibility. >> (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. >> Not >> familiar with where you're located. >> >> What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. >> Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, >> but >> thought it was worth asking. >> >> Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did >> you recently >> tune this machine up? >> I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and >> when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a >> speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing >> too >> fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were >> right on. >> >> >> Kyle ~ >> Mechanical Music of San Francisco >> >> > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call > (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) > www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip > out" > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > From pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk Fri Feb 27 09:01:08 2009 From: pughn at npsyssoft.force9.co.uk (Nigel Pugh) Date: Fri Feb 27 09:02:23 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20090227083932.239D71ECFCE@blade104.la.inty.net> <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003e01c998fc$fc6a5f60$f53f1e20$@force9.co.uk> Hi, Ron is right, the size will make a difference. One quick way to slow yours down is to increase the diameter of the pulley behind the turntable slightly. You could do this by cleaning it with isopropyl alcohol, then running a strip of electrical tape around the circumference, to bring out the diameter a little. It will work for a quick and dirty fix. The ratio of the driver to the driven will then slow it down. I know in the UK as we have to swap pulleys from 60 to 50hz, there are quite a few combinations out there depending upon which make of motor was fitted, and all sorts of other things. Some pulleys were double stepped with an ever so slight change of speed. Nigel, UK -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: 27 February 2009 16:31 To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Dave, Rich, I don't believe this to be the fact on this model, as it is not really an "idler wheel", but a belt drive pully, the size of which, it would seem to me, would make a difference---? Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/27/09, dave.halford@telent.com wrote: From: dave.halford@telent.com Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:39 AM Rich The size of an idler wheel is irrelevant to overall gearing. Only the shaft and turntable have any effect. So the questions are - Is there anything on the motor shaft like a spring? Thats how Rockola speed up 60hz motors in 50hz areas. A 50hz motor on a 60hz supply will run fast! regards Dave H "Ssg Rich Myers" <19k20@comcast.net> To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Sent by: cc: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast etlojix.com 27/02/2009 06:40 Please respond to Jukebox mailing list Ron, I also printed out a 50Hz 45RPM strobe disc. When I played it. The lines still appeared to move...this time counter clockwise...indicating playing to slow for that cycle. Idler wheel might be it. Does anyone have the diameter of a known good 45rpm idler. I would be happy to measure it out. Thanks again Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:47 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Rich, The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel?? (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM Gentlemen: Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected 60Hz and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move much one direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks to be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace the motor. Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely separated. See pics of it here. http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only one broken. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical Music of S.F. Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Hi. Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been installed. That's also a possibility. (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. Not familiar with where you're located. What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, but thought it was worth asking. Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did you recently tune this machine up? I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing too fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were right on. Kyle ~ Mechanical Music of San Francisco _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howi tworks_022009_______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1971 - Release Date: 02/26/09 07:03:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1974 - Release Date: 02/26/09 14:51:00 _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s). It and any attachments may contain confidential information and/or be privileged. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail or disclose its content to anyone. Please notify the sender immediately by reply if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the company. 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Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - www.maildefender.net _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jrutoskey at yahoo.com Fri Feb 27 10:32:04 2009 From: jrutoskey at yahoo.com (Automatic Music) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:33:11 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 1990 ROCK OLA CD TECH NEEDED Message-ID: <170008.54500.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Is there anyone that can diagnose and repair/replace computers, boards, and CD players from a 1990 Model 3000 CD juke? This machine was upgraded in 2004. The computer shell is plain unpainted metal and the CD drive is a linear type. I have a feeling the CD drive has died. I can send any parts to you that are necessary for the repair. If you can help, please email me directly with your information at jrutoskey@yahoo.com From urban_paranoia1 at btopenworld.com Fri Feb 27 13:38:37 2009 From: urban_paranoia1 at btopenworld.com (urban_paranoia) Date: Fri Feb 27 13:46:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] 1978 Wurlitzer Baltic 4 - not working - suggestions? Message-ID: Hiya I have just picked up a 1978 Wurlitzer Baltic 4. Please excuse any technical inaccuracies in the following description as I am new to jukeboxes. OK.here goes: The machine coins up and registers credits. Both keyboards work. When a selection has been made, the selector unit rotates and either one of two things happens: 1. A selector solenoid fires and it stops rotating suddenly. 2. It carries on rotating for a while and the M4 latch solenoid continues to flip rapidly then stops suddenly. NB. The Latch lever pin doesn't engage with any latch holes. Finally - I have no idea whether this has any bearing on the matter, but when looking at the selector unit side-on, I noticed that numerous inner and outer latch pins are raised - should these not be cancelled during normal operation (apart from the ones to be selected for play?) Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Alan :o) From 19k20 at comcast.net Fri Feb 27 15:08:19 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Fri Feb 27 15:08:13 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast In-Reply-To: <49A818B7.1050104@telus.net> References: <290706.43071.qm@web111310.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <49A818B7.1050104@telus.net> Message-ID: <000a01c99930$48847510$d98d5f30$@net> John, Nigel, Ron, Jim A., Jens......and many others.. Thank You! John hit the nail on the head. I replaced the turntable belt with one from my 3010 and wa-la....much better. The strobe disc is tracking much better with minimal movement. I took pics and posted here if anyone is interested. http://myersjukes.mine.nu/wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Look for the ones labeled small and large belt. There is a noticeable difference in size. Don't know where these came from...but won't be using these. That's why you guys know everything and I know nothing! Thanks for all the help. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of John Robertson Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:46 AM To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com; Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Ron Rich wrote: > Dave, Rich, > I don't believe this to be the fact on this model, as it is not really an "idler wheel", but a belt drive pully, the size of which, it would seem to me, would make a difference---? Ron Rich > > If Rich had an oversize O-Ring this could cause the record to play fast. The diameter of the neoprene should be around 1/8" - 3/16". A larger diameter ring would sit higher in the groove and thus the ratio would be different. John :-#)# > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, dave.halford@telent.com wrote: > > From: dave.halford@telent.com > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 12:39 AM > > Rich > The size of an idler wheel is irrelevant to overall gearing. Only the shaft > and turntable have any effect. > So the questions are - > Is there anything on the motor shaft like a spring? Thats how Rockola speed > up 60hz motors in 50hz areas. > A 50hz motor on a 60hz supply will run fast! > > regards > > Dave H > > > > > > > "Ssg Rich Myers" > > <19k20@comcast.net> To: > "'Jukebox mailing list'" > > Sent by: cc: > > jukebox-list-bounces@lists.n Subject: RE: > [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > etlojix.com > > > > > > 27/02/2009 06:40 > > Please respond to Jukebox > > mailing list > > > > > > > > Ron, > > I also printed out a 50Hz 45RPM strobe disc. When I played it. The lines > still appeared to move...this time counter clockwise...indicating playing > to > slow for that cycle. > > Idler wheel might be it. Does anyone have the diameter of a known good > 45rpm idler. I would be happy to measure it out. > > Thanks again > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rich > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:47 PM > To: Jukebox mailing list > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > > Rich, > The tightness of the belts won't make it run slower---nor will a broken > motor mount--wondering if may be you have a 50 cy motor, or idler wheel?? > (don't kow which they changed--) Ron Rich > > --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: > > From: Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> > Subject: RE: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > To: "'Jukebox mailing list'" > > Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 1:05 PM > > Gentlemen: > > Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing > somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link > http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What > is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected > 60Hz > and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move > much one > direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as > opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks > to > be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace > turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace > the > motor. > > Went to take a few pics and I found the lower motor mount is completely > separated. See pics of it here. > http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Wurlitzer_2800/tt_motor Maybe this has > something to do with it. All three are pretty well shot...this is the only > one broken. > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com > [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Mechanical > Music of S.F. > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:40 AM > To: jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast > > > Hi. > Loose belts would make it play erratically, or slow. Ditto any worn or > dirty/hardened rubber part in the system. > I think it's a 120 V motor running the turntable. All I can imagine is > that that motor is going bad, or the shaft is wrapped with something > (which would speed it up), or the wrong sized drive wheel has been > installed. That's also a possibility. > (Or, of you're on 220 V), there's a problem in the reduction somewhere. > Not > familiar with where you're located. > > What's the voltage to that motor supposed to be? Check it. > Are you playing a 33 in it and it's not switching from 45? Slim chance, > but > thought it was worth asking. > > Now, don't be offended, but... are you sure? How "fast?" Did > you recently > tune this machine up? > I once fixed a jukebox that had been playing slow obviously for years, and > when I corrected the speed with a little lubrication and cleaning (and a > speed adjustment (it was an LPC-1), the owner thought it was now playing > too > fast. I was intimately familiar with many of the records and they were > right on. > > > Kyle ~ > Mechanical Music of San Francisco > -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1975 - Release Date: 02/27/09 07:05:00 From jyount130960 at comcast.net Fri Feb 27 15:06:25 2009 From: jyount130960 at comcast.net (jyount130960@comcast.net) Date: Fri Feb 27 15:15:16 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2081129760.3238091235775985705.JavaMail.root@sz0158a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hey guys.? Apparently my NSM Galaxy juke needs a new reader from all indications.? I was wondering if you could help.? Would it be better to go back with the CDM-3 or 4, or upgrade to the CD pro reader?? It looks as if I can get a CDM-3/4 for around $150 bucks working.? I talked to another guy who says he can get me the pro upgrade with board etc...?? for around $250.? I was told that if I play a lot of recorded cd's, that I could only expect to get 6 mos to a year from the unit and that it would last much longer if playing "bought" cd's.? Does that sound right??? I mean, how could a burned cd lessen the life of the reader?? Anyway, all opinions and info would be greatly appreciated in this matter..........life expectancy of cdm-3/4 versus pro etc.....??? Thanks again.? Joe. Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From dguarino6705 at comcast.net Fri Feb 27 15:48:11 2009 From: dguarino6705 at comcast.net (David) Date: Fri Feb 27 15:50:34 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? Message-ID: <000f01c99935$d99aff60$3c84fd45@hsd1.pa.comcast.net> Has anybody ever heard of a W3300 180 play jukebox? Saw this Ebay auction 180331318679 One of twenty built? Just curious. I'm counting 80 title strips which might be 160 selections, but there sure seems to be allot of selection buttons. I can't count'em too good. Maybe this link will work http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Rare-180-Play-Wurlitzer-Jukebox_W0QQitemZ180331318679QQihZ008QQcategoryZ13721QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem David G. From jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 18:30:01 2009 From: jukeboxrepairman at gmail.com (Thomas Teeter) Date: Fri Feb 27 18:31:03 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade In-Reply-To: <2081129760.3238091235775985705.JavaMail.root@sz0158a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <2081129760.3238091235775985705.JavaMail.root@sz0158a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: You can get your old CDM3 or 4 player repaired by Bruce Wentworth for about that price or slightly less and have a warranty to go with it. I'd go that route. Playing burned CD's in no way will shorten the life expectancy of the unit. Id stay away from advice given by whoever told you that. Thomas On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 5:06 PM, wrote: > > > Hey guys. Apparently my NSM Galaxy juke needs a new reader from all > indications. I was wondering if you could help. Would it be better to go > back with the CDM-3 or 4, or upgrade to the CD pro reader? It looks as if I > can get a CDM-3/4 for around $150 bucks working. I talked to another guy > who says he can get me the pro upgrade with board etc... for around $250. > I was told that if I play a lot of recorded cd's, that I could only expect > to get 6 mos to a year from the unit and that it would last much longer if > playing "bought" cd's. Does that sound right? I mean, how could a burned > cd lessen the life of the reader? Anyway, all opinions and info would be > greatly appreciated in this matter..........life expectancy of cdm-3/4 > versus pro etc..... Thanks again. Joe. > > > > > > > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > -- Thomas Teeter absolutelygreatgames.com E-bay ID: absolutelygreatgames E-mail: jukeboxrepairman@gmail.com From 19k20 at comcast.net Fri Feb 27 18:32:22 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Fri Feb 27 18:33:24 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? In-Reply-To: <000f01c99935$d99aff60$3c84fd45@hsd1.pa.comcast.net> References: <000f01c99935$d99aff60$3c84fd45@hsd1.pa.comcast.net> Message-ID: <000401c9994c$c9d1e4b0$5d75ae10$@net> WOW! I downloaded the picture and counted and compared to pinballrebel.com website. I counted 20 letter selections...probably A-V excluding I an O as usual. I can only count 8 number buttons. Very strange he is stating this is a 1963 model. Americana III (3300) didn't come out until 1969. Model 2700 was release in 1963. Unless we got a close up pic of the number selections....I am guessing it is missing two buttons at the end. I will ask for additional pics and post on my website if received. Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of David Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 5:48 PM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? Has anybody ever heard of a W3300 180 play jukebox? Saw this Ebay auction 180331318679 One of twenty built? Just curious. I'm counting 80 title strips which might be 160 selections, but there sure seems to be allot of selection buttons. I can't count'em too good. Maybe this link will work http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Rare-180-Play-Wurlitzer-Jukebox_W0QQitemZ1803313186 79QQihZ008QQcategoryZ13721QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem David G. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1975 - Release Date: 02/27/09 07:05:00 From 19k20 at comcast.net Fri Feb 27 19:51:20 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Fri Feb 27 19:52:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance In-Reply-To: <49A1955D.9080209@halted.com> References: <941230.3102.qm@web111316.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <49A1955D.9080209@halted.com> Message-ID: <000501c99957$d4ad2010$7e076030$@net> Here is a picture of the Wurlitzer discotheque banners described below. Instead of a 2900, they are behind a 3000. This is a page form the 3000 sales flyer. http://myersjukes.mine.nu/3000_Discotheque.jpg Rich -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Bob E. Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 12:12 PM To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com; Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Seeburg rec-o-dance Ron Rich wrote: > "Disco package"--starting with the LPC 480-D, runnng thru at least the APFEA-1 model. > Contained the "dance floor, sign and the large external speakers". I've never seen any of the marketing for Seeburg's "Discotheque" campaign (except for the PFEA1-U phonos and the DDS speakers). I'd be interested to see some brochures or ads. Apparently, Wurlitzer tried it for a short while as well, as I do have a brochure for their equivalent "Discotheque by Wurlitzer" package, and it's really a hoot. It has a picture of the 2900 series phono, flanked by two large DDS-type external floor-standing console speakers (without Altec horns, though). If you bought the complete Discotheque package (it came in three levels), you got 9 large (3 ft. by 8 ft.!) black-light posters with cartoon, uh, "jungle natives" beating on drums and slogans like: "Dance to the Rhythmic Moods of Wurlitzer Discotheque...music selected by Arthur Murray Studios" or "Do the Hully Gully to our Big Band Discotheque". I'd love to see some of these posters for real! I don't know if they sold the black lights, but the brochure talks about the "Large Wall Banners which ARE the dances...produced in brilliant fluorescent colors that glow with black light. Makes a so-so spot into a go-go spot in a hurry." You could also get window banners, table-tents, napkins and coasters, and even Arthur Murray discotheque instructors to teach your customers in your location on an exclusive arrangement! There was also supposed to be a selection of 60 records especially programmed for Discotheque dancing pressed exclusively for Wurlitzer with specially-colored title strips. I've never seen any of these things, they must be a lot rarer than the Seeburg stuff. I have some of the "Rec-o-Dance" records, and there were some called the "Disc-o-teen" series as well, I think. They are just normal, small-hole 7" records, by the way. --Bob _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/22/09 17:21:00 From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 27 19:57:27 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 27 19:58:30 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade In-Reply-To: <2081129760.3238091235775985705.JavaMail.root@sz0158a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <938595.44960.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Joe, I gotta bridge for sale--CDM units run as long as they wish. I have had all thre types that ran for years, and others that failed in days--need a crystal ball to determine what going to happen. As far as Burned VS Store bought--no affect what so ever--however, SOME of the versions of SOME of the players will not play all "burned" discs (which are NOT legal for use in commercial jukes). Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/27/09, jyount130960@comcast.net wrote: From: jyount130960@comcast.net Subject: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 3:06 PM Hey guys.? Apparently my NSM Galaxy juke needs a new reader from all indications.? I was wondering if you could help.? Would it be better to go back with the CDM-3 or 4, or upgrade to the CD pro reader?? It looks as if I can get a CDM-3/4 for around $150 bucks working.? I talked to another guy who says he can get me the pro upgrade with board etc...?? for around $250.? I was told that if I play a lot of recorded cd's, that I could only expect to get 6 mos to a year from the unit and that it would last much longer if playing "bought" cd's.? Does that sound right??? I mean, how could a burned cd lessen the life of the reader?? Anyway, all opinions and info would be greatly appreciated in this matter..........life expectancy of cdm-3/4 versus pro etc.....??? Thanks again.? Joe. Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ronnnrich at yahoo.com Fri Feb 27 20:04:36 2009 From: ronnnrich at yahoo.com (Ron Rich) Date: Fri Feb 27 20:08:34 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? In-Reply-To: <000f01c99935$d99aff60$3c84fd45@hsd1.pa.comcast.net> Message-ID: <280809.47921.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> David, I'm selling used bridges cheap this week---Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/27/09, David wrote: From: David Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 3:48 PM Has anybody ever heard of a W3300 180 play jukebox? Saw this Ebay auction 180331318679 One of twenty built? Just curious. I'm counting 80 title strips which might be 160 selections, but there sure seems to be allot of selection buttons. I can't count'em too good. Maybe this link will work http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Rare-180-Play-Wurlitzer-Jukebox_W0QQitemZ180331318679QQihZ008QQcategoryZ13721QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem David G. _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From jay at west.net Fri Feb 27 22:57:36 2009 From: jay at west.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Fri Feb 27 22:58:34 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? In-Reply-To: <000f01c99935$d99aff60$3c84fd45@hsd1.pa.comcast.net> References: <000f01c99935$d99aff60$3c84fd45@hsd1.pa.comcast.net> Message-ID: <49A8E060.3040305@west.net> David wrote: > Has anybody ever heard of a W3300 180 play jukebox? > Saw this Ebay auction 180331318679 > One of twenty built? > Just curious. > I'm counting 80 title strips which might be 160 selections, but there sure seems to be allot of selection buttons. I can't count'em too good. It looks like a standard 200-play box with the bottom two rows of title strips covered with decorative appliqu? on the glass, and the last two number buttons removed. So 160 play. I doubt if it came that way from the factory. A bunch of errors in the listing, typical for eBay sellers. The 3300 was made around 1969, not 1963. The 3400 mech was in fact worse mechanically but I think they were still made in the USA. Rockola didn't make a 180-play box either. 160, yes. Seeburg had standardized on 160 about that time. It wouldn't make sense for Wurlitzer to retool from a long-trusted reliable mech just to reduce the number of selections, especially just to make twenty of them. IMHO, it looks like some operator modified a 200-play box, probably to be compatible with Seeburg wallboxes. Even this doesn't make a lot of sense as he could leave all 200 available from the main jukebox and 160 from the wallboxes. The seller either was given this story by the previous owner when he bought it, or he is trying to make a one-off modified box into something "rare". And he can't count. http://www.west.net/~jay/images/bsmeter.gif -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From metrocinema at xtra.co.nz Fri Feb 27 23:52:27 2009 From: metrocinema at xtra.co.nz (John Wilson) Date: Fri Feb 27 23:53:26 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? In-Reply-To: <49A8E060.3040305@west.net> Message-ID: <663785.60815.qm@web96003.mail.aue.yahoo.com> Hi guys, Just noting the comments around the 3400 mech... these came out over here in NewZealand in the Statesman (still US made, not German mechs) the statesman I have here at the cinema is still running well apart from replacing some dud microswitches... Reckon that unit unit on ebay has been fiddled... cheers John --- On Sat, 28/2/09, Jay Hennigan wrote: > From: Jay Hennigan > Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Received: Saturday, 28 February, 2009, 7:57 PM > David wrote: > > Has anybody ever heard of a W3300 180 play jukebox? > > Saw this Ebay auction 180331318679 > > One of twenty built? > > Just curious. > > I'm counting 80 title strips which might be 160 > selections, but there sure seems to be allot of selection > buttons. I can't count'em too good. > > It looks like a standard 200-play box with the bottom two > rows of title strips covered with decorative appliqu? on > the glass, and the last two number buttons removed. So 160 > play. > > I doubt if it came that way from the factory. A bunch of > errors in the listing, typical for eBay sellers. The 3300 > was made around 1969, not 1963. The 3400 mech was in fact > worse mechanically but I think they were still made in the > USA. > > Rockola didn't make a 180-play box either. 160, yes. > Seeburg had standardized on 160 about that time. > > It wouldn't make sense for Wurlitzer to retool from a > long-trusted reliable mech just to reduce the number of > selections, especially just to make twenty of them. > > IMHO, it looks like some operator modified a 200-play box, > probably to be compatible with Seeburg wallboxes. Even this > doesn't make a lot of sense as he could leave all 200 > available from the main jukebox and 160 from the wallboxes. > The seller either was given this story by the previous owner > when he bought it, or he is trying to make a one-off > modified box into something "rare". And he > can't count. > > http://www.west.net/~jay/images/bsmeter.gif > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - > jay@impulse.net > Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - > WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From ccos at knology.net Sat Feb 28 00:27:09 2009 From: ccos at knology.net (CCOS) Date: Sat Feb 28 00:28:19 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade In-Reply-To: <938595.44960.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <938595.44960.qm@web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ron, I gotta disagree/agree with you on this one. I agree that if a player plays, it ought to just play and that ought to be the end of it. However, not only have i found that not to be the case recently, I've also discussed this with Bruce. Apparentlty there are versions of Proplayers that play burned cd's better than others. In my recent experience, I've had top notch, great condition, I would stake my reputation on, Rowe CD100J's and newer that I have made sure have V4.3 CCC's, Bruce Wentworth rebuilt mech control units, and STILL, cd's would skip or, more often, not play at all. Most of the time, the burned cd worked for a while, and suddenly stopped playing. I'd swap players, mech control units, CCC's and finaly give up, and pull the burned cd. Bruce described to me how to tell which (Pro)player was more likely to play the burned cd, which had to do with an unused connector on the end of the player closest to the hinge of the cd clamp. Until he told me, I wasn't even aware some proplayers had this unused connector, and some didn't. I have found that, true to what Bruce told me, Proplayers withOUT the connector on the left side of the player (as viewed installed) seem to play burned cd's better. However, I really believe that newer cd's have some sort of better copy protection on them because even though copies play at first , it's not long that they don't, in commercial locations. I have stopped all copy cd's in my commercial locations because of the increasing hassle. I buy originals where warranted or better yet, try to talk them into an internet jukebox. Of course, I was never supposed to use burned cd's in commercial locations in the first place so for those on the list feeling the need to remind me, thanks...........but I was only trying to use my ill gotten gains to help home users :))) Karl Columbus Coin-Op Shop 2061 S. Lumpkin Rd. Columbus, GA 31903 (706)507-2963 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade Joe, I gotta bridge for sale--CDM units run as long as they wish. I have had all thre types that ran for years, and others that failed in days--need a crystal ball to determine what going to happen. As far as Burned VS Store bought--no affect what so ever--however, SOME of the versions of SOME of the players will not play all "burned" discs (which are NOT legal for use in commercial jukes). Ron Rich --- On Fri, 2/27/09, jyount130960@comcast.net wrote: From: jyount130960@comcast.net Subject: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade To: "Jukebox mailing list" Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 3:06 PM Hey guys. Apparently my NSM Galaxy juke needs a new reader from all indications. I was wondering if you could help. Would it be better to go back with the CDM-3 or 4, or upgrade to the CD pro reader? It looks as if I can get a CDM-3/4 for around $150 bucks working. I talked to another guy who says he can get me the pro upgrade with board etc... for around $250. I was told that if I play a lot of recorded cd's, that I could only expect to get 6 mos to a year from the unit and that it would last much longer if playing "bought" cd's. Does that sound right? I mean, how could a burned cd lessen the life of the reader? Anyway, all opinions and info would be greatly appreciated in this matter..........life expectancy of cdm-3/4 versus pro etc..... Thanks again. Joe. Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list From recordhound at verizon.net Sat Feb 28 03:20:13 2009 From: recordhound at verizon.net (Jimmy Day) Date: Sat Feb 28 03:21:27 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Re: W2800 turntable playing fast Message-ID: <6FB881D881C248518AC3FFAE5916D42D@screwylo> Rich - I took a peek at the photos you had of your Wurlitzer mech with the "too-fast speed issue" and thought I'd jump in with my 201K-cents' worth so to speak - that idler doesn't look too good, I myself would try "cleaning" it with a bit of sandpaper. IOW, reduce the diameter a bit. This might also help as you will be removing the very outer rim of rubber which is probably hard and shiny. Since this mech uses a two-tier idler, the diameters are important. Having the strobe will be very helpful to you as you can shave a little at a time and not overdo it. I think these motor mounts are available, I recall seeing something somewhere. Boy, just too much to remember these daze. *jimmy in MD, "the land of political enchantment" *********** original message - Thanks to those who commented. I have determined the 2800 is playing somewhere between 48 and 49 RPM. I used this link http://www.myvintagetv.com/strobe.htm and downloaded the executable. What is nice is that you can create custom speeds form the menu. I selected 60Hz and 49 RPM. When glued to a 45 and played, it's lines didn't move much one direction or the other. This 2800 has the updated motor with the idler as opposed to the gear drive. Both turn table belts in place and what looks to be an OEM idler wheel. Not sure where to go next....possible replace turntable belts to see if that "tightens" it up any or just replace the motor. From dguarino6705 at comcast.net Sat Feb 28 06:01:52 2009 From: dguarino6705 at comcast.net (David) Date: Sat Feb 28 06:04:19 2009 Subject: Fw: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? Message-ID: <003501c999ad$1b97e0a0$3c84fd45@hsd1.pa.comcast.net> Yep Ron, that's where I was going with this one! ;~) David G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Rich" To: "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? > David, > I'm selling used bridges cheap this week---Ron Rich > > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, David wrote: > > From: David > Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? > To: "Jukebox mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 3:48 PM > > Has anybody ever heard of a W3300 180 play jukebox? > Saw this Ebay auction 180331318679 > One of twenty built? > Just curious. > I'm counting 80 title strips which might be 160 selections, but there sure > seems to be allot of selection buttons. I can't count'em too good. > > > Maybe this link will work > http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Rare-180-Play-Wurlitzer-Jukebox_W0QQitemZ180331318679QQihZ008QQcategoryZ13721QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > David G. > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jukebox-list mailing list > Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com > http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.4/1976 - Release Date: 2/27/09 1:27 PM > From 19k20 at comcast.net Sat Feb 28 06:46:41 2009 From: 19k20 at comcast.net (Ssg Rich Myers) Date: Sat Feb 28 06:47:51 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? In-Reply-To: <49A8E060.3040305@west.net> References: <000f01c99935$d99aff60$3c84fd45@hsd1.pa.comcast.net> <49A8E060.3040305@west.net> Message-ID: <001b01c999b3$5eebfed0$1cc3fc70$@net> I received a nice story and pics of this mystery juke. I have copied his email and you may use this link http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Misc/ to view the pics, if you like. I wonder, if this is genuine, if it was a custom job Wurlitzer did for a niche market....anyways..here it is -------I thought the 3300 which is sitting right nest to this 3300 was a 1960 model and the 3300 was 1963. I somehow remembered that in my head. I could be wrong. The info on this box I got from an older gentleman who was local and he was one of a couple of factory techs that traveled the country looking at jukebox problems. He was the one that told me I was nuts and that there was no such thing as a 180 play Wurlitzer. I told him I had one and said that was impossible. He asked me for the serial number and tracked it back. He was shocked, there was such a thing! He is the one who gave me the New Orleans story. I live just outside Cincinnati along the Ohio River. I acquired the box in Aberdeen, Ohio, which is on the Ohio River just across the river from Maysville, Kentucky. Did it come up by river? Who knows. Here are the photos you requested. The numbers are 1 - 8 not 1 - 0. There is a spacer in every FOURTH position where a record would normally go. I can compare it to my 3000. It a factory job. VERY UNUSUAL! See PIX----------- -----Original Message----- From: jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com [mailto:jukebox-list-bounces@lists.netlojix.com] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:58 AM To: Jukebox mailing list Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? David wrote: > Has anybody ever heard of a W3300 180 play jukebox? > Saw this Ebay auction 180331318679 > One of twenty built? > Just curious. > I'm counting 80 title strips which might be 160 selections, but there sure seems to be allot of selection buttons. I can't count'em too good. It looks like a standard 200-play box with the bottom two rows of title strips covered with decorative appliqu? on the glass, and the last two number buttons removed. So 160 play. I doubt if it came that way from the factory. A bunch of errors in the listing, typical for eBay sellers. The 3300 was made around 1969, not 1963. The 3400 mech was in fact worse mechanically but I think they were still made in the USA. Rockola didn't make a 180-play box either. 160, yes. Seeburg had standardized on 160 about that time. It wouldn't make sense for Wurlitzer to retool from a long-trusted reliable mech just to reduce the number of selections, especially just to make twenty of them. IMHO, it looks like some operator modified a 200-play box, probably to be compatible with Seeburg wallboxes. Even this doesn't make a lot of sense as he could leave all 200 available from the main jukebox and 160 from the wallboxes. The seller either was given this story by the previous owner when he bought it, or he is trying to make a one-off modified box into something "rare". And he can't count. http://www.west.net/~jay/images/bsmeter.gif -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ Jukebox-list mailing list Jukebox-list@lists.netlojix.com http://lists.netlojix.com/mailman/listinfo/jukebox-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1975 - Release Date: 02/27/09 07:05:00 From david_breneman at yahoo.com Sat Feb 28 06:56:00 2009 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Sat Feb 28 06:57:09 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] ?Wurlitzer 3300 180 play jukebox? In-Reply-To: <001b01c999b3$5eebfed0$1cc3fc70$@net> Message-ID: <369961.96912.qm@web42103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Ssg Rich Myers <19k20@comcast.net> wrote: > I received a nice story and pics of this mystery juke. I > have copied his > email and you may use this link > http://myersjukes.mine.nu/Misc/ to view the > pics, if you like. Although you get a directory listing at that URL, if you click on any of the individual files you get a 404 error. From jyount130960 at comcast.net Sat Feb 28 07:34:05 2009 From: jyount130960 at comcast.net (jyount130960@comcast.net) Date: Sat Feb 28 07:35:12 2009 Subject: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1288053398.3383531235835245247.JavaMail.root@sz0158a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> This is all a little confusing, but I am listening and learning.? Please continue guys.? Glad I came to you all before deciding.? So nice to have so much knowledge in one area. ----- Original Message ----- From: "CCOS" To: ronnnrich@yahoo.com, "Jukebox mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:27:09 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Jukebox-list] Opinions on NSM Galaxy Upgrade Ron, I gotta disagree/agree with you on this one. I agree that if a player plays, it ought to just play and that ought to be the end of it. However, not only have i found that not to be the case recently, ?I've also discussed this with Bruce. Apparentlty there are versions of Proplayers that play burned cd's better than others. In my recent experience, I've had top notch, ?great condition, I would stake my reputation on, Rowe CD100J's and newer that I have made sure have V4.3 CCC's, Bruce Wentworth rebuilt mech control units, and STILL, cd's would skip or, more often, not play at all. Most of the time, the burned cd worked for a while, and suddenly stopped playing. I'd swap players, me